1. #11521
    Speaking of polls, Biden's polling lead over Trump is the steadiest lead of any candidate since we started doing polls in the 1940s:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/polit...lls/index.html

  2. #11522
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    These are the same people that defended Patriot Act and the rights that trampled then turned around and fought having to wear a mask during a pandemic.

    There is no ideology. They only want their side to win at any and all costs, so they will say whatever, think whatever, scream whatever as long as they believe white Christian men are running things. That is literally all there is to the Trumpian conservative. Their entire political ideology is based on fear of losing power on a major and micro scale. It is why they want walls, guns and travel bans.
    Indeed... Patriot Act was also market tested to be sold to the public, based on perception, instead of content. Marketing doesn’t give a shit about ideology, other than the ideology of selling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    In my opinion, she is the worse two faced politician I have witness running for office ever. A true one eyed Jack who will lie to get her way. To myself, she is actually.... evil.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  3. #11523
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    How are you going to compromise, when things like defending Social Security, is done on his behalf? I got more than 20 years, even if I make it that long. I’m not harping on social security because it benefits me. Even without Trump promises of tax cuts defunding it, the math to receive it, is not in my favor.

    How do you break the impasse of policy harming those those that support it?
    unfortunately the break will only come once the other side suffers en'mass. by then the actors responsible will be dead and they will take it out on the current administration.

    Exactly what happened in 2008-2009 and the next administration. (well outside of the death part).

    In 2024-2036 depending on what happens this year and next all of a sudden all these people who "ra ra" trump plan will realize they are only going to get 71-84% of their expected benefits.

    They will of course first cry that Obama/Biden or some democrat spent the money even though its locked down, because of the lack of education on how SS is funded.

    Then they will realize, but never admit, they should have never touched the tax rate and maybe even increased it in incremental steps over the last 30 years. Steps that would have cost them 10-15 dollars more a year.

    and then we will all be forced to bail them out because we are suckers and there are still too many baby boomer voters alive. All will get better when the plague of baby boomers is over.

    Of course this person in particular will most likely have gotten his full share and then some out of Medicare/SS/VA so he will not care two licks about the other 320 million people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I’m not harping on social security because it benefits me. Even without Trump promises of tax cuts defunding it, the math to receive it, is not in my favor.
    oh you will get it, it just will only be 70-80% of what you should be getting based on current estimates.
    SS can never go bankrupt. The law specifically adjust for this by decreasing your benefits.
    Yet another example of Trump voters supporting something that will cut off their own toes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Speaking of polls, Biden's polling lead over Trump is the steadiest lead of any candidate since we started doing polls in the 1940s:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/polit...lls/index.html
    its funny this week to see they are cheering the new Texas polls showing trump a little ahead.

    LOL texas, as if anyone expected......

    if this is what they call "good news" god they are in for a lot of sadness.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  4. #11524
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I don't get you all are trying to claim either side has been doing a good job. Neither party believes in universal health care and both don't take climate change seriously. It's like being on the titanic and one side is denying we hit an iceberg and the other wants to do a small course correction to fix the problem. The end result will be the same a lot more civil unrest in the next 4 to 8 years.
    Yawn. They aren't the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  5. #11525
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Yeah...none of that is true tho.

    Because they are all for government getting into your vagina, uterus, bedroom, sex life, genitalia in general and your school curriculum. They are also adamantly opposed to market solutions to international conflicts (BDS movement), market solutions to social problems, freedom of private press, against free market competition (cutting government aid to legacy industries like fossil fuels) etc.

    The whole small government shit and market solutions stuff is all bullshit. Like 100% utter total bullshit. Not even a hint of truth at its core.
    Of course they are also full of shit when it come to morality. The government should not force a company not dump chemicals into a river but it will be damned if it lets Adam and Steve adopt a child that it forced Susie to carry to term.

    Does matter if their voters by into it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Yawn. They aren't the same.
    He did not say they were the same though. He said that they are both shitty.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  6. #11526
    Trump's healthcare platform:
    .
    Biden's healthcare platform:
    THE BIDEN PLAN TO PROTECT & BUILD ON THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT
    I. GIVE EVERY AMERICAN ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE HEALTH INSURANCE
    From the time right before the Affordable Care Act’s key coverage-related policies went into effect to the last full year of the Obama-Biden Administration, 2016, the number of Americans lacking health insurance fell from 44 million to 27 million – an almost 40% drop. But President Trump’s persistent efforts to sabotage Obamacare through executive action, after failing in his efforts to repeal it through Congress, have started to reverse this progress. Since 2016, the number of uninsured Americans has increased by roughly 1.4 million.

    As president, Biden will stop this reversal of the progress made by Obamacare. And he won’t stop there. He’ll also build on the Affordable Care Act with a plan to insure more than an estimated 97% of Americans. Here’s how:

    Giving Americans a new choice, a public health insurance option like Medicare. If your insurance company isn’t doing right by you, you should have another, better choice. Whether you’re covered through your employer, buying your insurance on your own, or going without coverage altogether, the Biden Plan will give you the choice to purchase a public health insurance option like Medicare. As in Medicare, the Biden public option will reduce costs for patients by negotiating lower prices from hospitals and other health care providers. It also will better coordinate among all of a patient’s doctors to improve the efficacy and quality of their care, and cover primary care without any co-payments. And it will bring relief to small businesses struggling to afford coverage for their employees.

    Increasing the value of tax credits to lower premiums and extend coverage to more working Americans. Today, families that make between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty level may receive a tax credit to reduce how much they have to pay for health insurance on the individual marketplace. The dollar amount of the financial assistance is calculated to ensure each family does not have to pay more than a certain percentage of their income on a silver (medium generosity) plan. But, these shares of income are too high and silver plans’ deductibles are too high. Additionally, many families making more than 400% of the federal poverty level (about $50,000 for a single person and $100,000 for a family of four), and thus not qualifying for financial assistance, still struggle to afford health insurance. The Biden Plan will help middle class families by eliminating the 400% income cap on tax credit eligibility and lowering the limit on the cost of coverage from 9.86% of income to 8.5%. This means that no family buying insurance on the individual marketplace, regardless of income, will have to spend more than 8.5% of their income on health insurance. Additionally, the Biden Plan will increase the size of tax credits by calculating them based on the cost of a more generous gold plan, rather than a silver plan. This will give more families the ability to afford more generous coverage, with lower deductibles and out-of-pocket costs.

    Expanding coverage to low-income Americans. Access to affordable health insurance shouldn’t depend on your state’s politics. But today, state politics is getting in the way of coverage for millions of low-income Americans. Governors and state legislatures in 14 states have refused to take up the Affordable Care Act’s expansion of Medicaid eligibility, denying access to Medicaid for an estimated 4.9 million adults. Biden’s plan will ensure these individuals get covered by offering premium-free access to the public option for those 4.9 million individuals who would be eligible for Medicaid but for their state’s inaction, and making sure their public option covers the full scope of Medicaid benefits. States that have already expanded Medicaid will have the choice of moving the expansion population to the premium-free public option as long as the states continue to pay their current share of the cost of covering those individuals. Additionally, Biden will ensure people making below 138% of the federal poverty level get covered. He’ll do this by automatically enrolling these individuals when they interact with certain institutions (such as public schools) or other programs for low-income populations (such as SNAP).

    II. PROVIDE THE PEACE OF MIND OF AFFORDABLE, QUALITY HEALTH CARE AND A LESS COMPLEX HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
    Today, even for people with health insurance, our health care system is too expensive and too hard to navigate. The Biden Plan will not only provide coverage for uninsured Americans, it will also make health care more affordable and less complex for all.
    The plan’s elements described above will help reduce the cost of health insurance and health care for those already insured in the following ways:

    All Americans will have a new, more affordable option. The public option, like Medicare, will negotiate prices with providers, providing a more affordable option for many Americans who today find their health insurance too expensive.

    Middle class families will get a premium tax credit to help them pay for coverage. For example, take a family of four with an income of $110,000 per year. If they currently get insurance on the individual marketplace, because their premium will now be capped at 8.5% of their income, under the Biden Plan they will save an estimated $750 per month on insurance alone. That’s cutting their premiums almost in half. If a family is covered by their employer but can get a better deal with the 8.5% premium cap, they can switch to a plan on the individual marketplace, too.

    Premium tax credits will be calculated to help more families afford better coverage with lower deductibles. Because the premium tax credits will now be calculated based on the price of a more generous gold plan, families will be able to purchase a plan with a lower deductible and lower out-of-pocket spending. That means many families will see their overall annual health care spending go down.
    The Biden Plan has several additional proposals aimed directly at cutting the cost of health care and making the health care system less complex to navigate. The Biden Plan will:

    Stop “surprise billing.” Consumers trying to lower their health care spending often try to choose an in-network provider. But sometimes patients are unaware they are receiving care from an out-of-network provider and a big, surprise bill. “Surprise medical billing” could occur, for example, if you go to an in-network hospital but don’t realize a specialist at that hospital is not part of your health plan. The Biden Plan will bar health care providers from charging patients out-of-network rates when the patient doesn’t have control over which provider the patient sees (for example, during a hospitalization).

    Tackle market concentration across our health care system. The concentration of market power in the hands of a few corporations is occurring throughout our health care system, and this lack of competition is driving up prices for consumers. The Biden Administration will aggressively use its existing antitrust authority to address this problem.

    Lower costs and improve health outcomes by partnering with the health care workforce. The Biden Administration will partner with health care workers and accelerate the testing and deployment of innovative solutions that improve quality of care and increase wages for low-wage health care workers, like home care workers.

    III. STAND UP TO ABUSE OF POWER BY PRESCRIPTION DRUG CORPORATIONS
    Too many Americans cannot afford their prescription drugs, and prescription drug corporations are profiteering off of the pocketbooks of sick individuals. The Biden Plan will put a stop to runaway drug prices and the profiteering of the drug industry by:

    Repealing the outrageous exception allowing drug corporations to avoid negotiating with Medicare over drug prices. Because Medicare covers so many Americans, it has significant leverage to negotiate lower prices for its beneficiaries. And it does so for hospitals and other providers participating in the program, but not drug manufacturers. Drug manufacturers not facing any competition, therefore, can charge whatever price they choose to set. There’s no justification for this except the power of prescription drug lobbying. The Biden Plan will repeal the existing law explicitly barring Medicare from negotiating lower prices with drug corporations.

    Limiting launch prices for drugs that face no competition and are being abusively priced by manufacturers. Through his work on the Cancer Moonshot, Biden understands that the future of pharmacological interventions is not traditional chemical drugs but specialized biotech drugs that will have little to no competition to keep prices in check. Without competition, we need a new approach for keeping the prices of these drugs down. For these cases where new specialty drugs without competition are being launched, under the Biden Plan the Secretary of Health and Human Services will establish an independent review board to assess their value. The board will recommend a reasonable price, based on the average price in other countries (a process called external reference pricing) or, if the drug is entering the U.S. market first, based on an evaluation by the independent board members. This reasonable price will be the rate Medicare and the public option will pay. In addition, the Biden Plan will allow private plans participating in the individual marketplace to access a similar rate.

    Limiting price increases for all brand, biotech, and abusively priced generic drugs to inflation. As a condition of participation in the Medicare program and public option, all brand, biotech, and abusively priced generic drugs will be prohibited from increasing their prices more than the general inflation rate. The Biden Plan will also impose a tax penalty on drug manufacturers that increase the costs of their brand, biotech, or abusively priced generic over the general inflation rate.

    Allowing consumers to buy prescription drugs from other countries. To create more competition for U.S. drug corporations, the Biden Plan will allow consumers to import prescription drugs from other countries, as long as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has certified that those drugs are safe.

    Terminating pharmaceutical corporations’ tax break for advertisement spending. Drug corporations spent an estimated $6 billion in 2016 alone on prescription drug advertisements to increase their sales, a more than four-fold increase from just $1.3 billion in 1997. The American Medical Association has even expressed “concerns among physicians about the negative impact of commercially driven promotions, and the role that marketing costs play in fueling escalating drug prices.” Currently, drug corporations may count spending on these ads as a deduction to reduce the amount of taxes they owe. But taxpayers should not have to foot the bill for these ads. As president, Biden will end this tax deduction for all prescription drug ads, as proposed by Senator Jeanne Shaheen.

    Improving the supply of quality generics. Generics help reduce health care spending, but brand drug corporations have succeeded in preserving a number of strategies to help them delay the entrance of a generic into the market even after the patent has expired. The Biden Plan supports numerous proposals to accelerate the development of safe generics, such as Senator Patrick Leahy’s proposal to make sure generic manufacturers have access to a sample.

    IV. ENSURE HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT FOR ALL, NOT A PRIVILEGE FOR JUST A FEW
    Joe Biden believes that every American – regardless of gender, race, income, sexual orientation, or zip code – should have access to affordable and quality health care. Yet racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, and other forms of discrimination permeate our health care system just as in every other part of society. As president, Biden will be a champion for improving access to health care and the health of all by:

    Expanding access to contraception and protect the constitutional right to an abortion. The Affordable Care Act made historic progress by ensuring access to free preventive care, including contraception. The Biden Plan will build on that progress. Vice President Biden supports repealing the Hyde Amendment because health care is a right that should not be dependent on one’s zip code or income. And, the public option will cover contraception and a woman’s constitutional right to choose. In addition, the Biden Plan will:

    Reverse the Trump Administration and states’ all-out assault on women’s right to choose. As president, Biden will work to codify Roe v. Wade, and his Justice Department will do everything in its power to stop the rash of state laws that so blatantly violate the constitutional right to an abortion, such as so-called TRAP laws, parental notification requirements, mandatory waiting periods, and ultrasound requirements.

    Restore federal funding for Planned Parenthood. The Obama-Biden administration fought Republican attacks on funding for Planned Parenthood again and again. As president, Biden will reissue guidance specifying that states cannot refuse Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood and other providers that refer for abortions or provide related information and reverse the Trump Administration’s rule preventing Planned Parenthood and certain other family planning programs from obtaining Title X funds.

    Just as the Obama-Biden Administration did,President Biden will rescind the Mexico City Policy (also referred to as the global gag rule) that President Trump reinstated and expanded. This rule currently bars the U.S. federal government from supporting important global health efforts – including for malaria and HIV/AIDS – in developing countries simply because the organizations providing that aid also offer information on abortion services.

    Reducing our unacceptably high maternal mortality rate, which especially impacts people of color. Compared to other developed nations, the U.S. has the highest rate of deaths related to pregnancy and childbirth, and we are the only country experiencing an increase in this death rate. This problem is especially prevalent among black women, who experience a death rate from complications related to pregnancy that is more than three times higher than the rate for non-Hispanic white women. California came up with a strategy that halved the state’s maternal death rate. As president, Biden will take this strategy nationwide.

    Defending health care protections for all, regardless of gender, gender identity, or sexual orientation. Before the Affordable Care Act, insurance companies could increase premiums merely due to someone’s gender, sexual orientation, or gender identity. Further, insurance companies could increase premiums or deny coverage altogether due to someone’s HIV status. Yet, President Trump is trying to walk back this progress. For example, he has proposed to once again allow health care providers and insurance companies to discriminate based on a patient’s gender identity or abortion history. President Biden will defend the rights of all people – regardless of gender, sexual orientation, gender identity – to have access to quality, affordable health care free from discrimination.

    Doubling America’s investment in community health centers. Community health centers provide primary, prenatal, and other important care to underserved populations. The Biden Plan will double the federal investment in these centers, expanding access to high quality health care for the populations that need it most.

    Achieving mental health parity and expanding access to mental health care. As Vice President, Biden was a champion for efforts to implement the federal mental health parity law, improve access to mental health care, and eliminate the stigma around mental health. As President, he will redouble these efforts to ensure enforcement of mental health parity laws and expand funding for mental health services.

    In the months ahead, Biden will put forward additional plans to tackle health challenges affecting specific communities, including access to health care in rural communities, gun violence, and opioid addiction.

    SUPPORTING HEALTH, NOT REWARDING WEALTH
    Joe Biden believes in rewarding work, not just wealth – and investing in hard-working Americans’ health, not protecting the most privileged Americans’ wealth. Warren Buffett said it best when he stated that he should not pay a lower tax rate than his secretary.

    The Biden Plan will make health care a right by getting rid of capital gains tax loopholes for the super wealthy. Today, the very wealthy pay a tax rate of just 20% on long-term capital gains. According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, the capital gains and dividends exclusion is the second largest tax expenditure in the entire tax code: $127 billion in fiscal year 2019 alone. As President, Biden will roll back the Trump rate cut for the very wealthy and restore the 39.6% top rate he helped restore when he negotiated an end to the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy in 2012. Biden’s capital gains reform will close the loopholes that allow the super wealthy to avoid taxes on capital gains altogether. The Biden plan will assure those making over $1 million will pay the top rate on capital gains, doubling the capital gains tax rate on the super wealthy.
    OMG YOU GUYS BOTH SIDES.
    Last edited by Benggaul; 2020-09-07 at 08:41 PM.

  7. #11527
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Speaking of polls, Biden's polling lead over Trump is the steadiest lead of any candidate since we started doing polls in the 1940s:
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/06/polit...lls/index.html
    That's not going to stop the Republicans from doing everything they can legally get away with from rigging the elections. They might even go beyond that.

    Like stop for a moment and try to imagine the following.

    Trump's concession speech if he losses the elections.

    Can you? Because I can't.

  8. #11528
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    That's not going to stop the Republicans from doing everything they can legally get away with from rigging the elections. They might even go beyond that.

    Like stop for a moment and try to imagine the following.

    Trump's concession speech if he losses the elections.

    Can you? Because I can't.
    Picture it as tweets. That'll help. lol.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  9. #11529
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Trump's healthcare platform:

    Biden's healthcare platform:


    OMG YOU GUYS BOTH SIDES.
    Nobody who claims both sides cares about healthcare. literally not 1 single person. If they claim it it's cause they are lying point blank.

  10. #11530
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Yawn. They aren't the same.
    I'd like to point out that even if Biden's entire platform would be nothing but "I will once again guarantee to hold elections in 4 years and uphold basic constitutional law in the next 4 years" it would still be an infinite amount of times better than anything the GOP could conjure up at this junction.

    The GOP is the Fascist Party of America, no ifs or buts or whatnots.

  11. #11531
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    How many milions won't be covered? How many Medical Bankruptcies will still happen? Most importantly how many will still die due to lack of coverage in a system tied to employment during the next economic down turn? Terrible is terrible and a wall of text doesn't change any of the short coming in Biden's plan.
    ,
    How many millions MORE won't be saved by Trump's non-existent plan? How many MORE bankruptcies will happen under a guy who is only looking out for himself? How many MORE will die because NOTHING is being done as opposed to SOMETHING?

    Sorry, you don't get to equate the two just because you think it's not covering everyone. People like you and Rochana investing so much in this "all or nothing" bullshit are perfectly fine killing off millions of other people to make a point, which makes your point moot.

  12. #11532
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you while the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Yeah it's people with empathy like him who are trying to keep 10's of millions from losing healthcare. Shame on him for having empathy for his fellow american. Too bad we can't all be like you and not give a shit about anything.

  13. #11533
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you while the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Pointing out the glaring flaw in your "all or nothing" bullshit isn't deflection. It's a simple statement of fact. You're willing to ignore the fact that MORE people will lose their health, homes and lives under Trump than Biden because you think your cause is worth OTHER people dying for. *shrug*

    Your second sentence makes no sense so I assume even YOU weren't paying attention to what you were typing. If you can't be bothered, why should the rest of us? G'bye now.

    EDIT: LOOOOOL Even after editing your mess of a sentence you still fuck it up. Yeah, you're done.

    Saving SOME more people is better than ensuring MORE are fucked over. It's as simple as that. And you STILL can't see it.
    Last edited by Benggaul; 2020-09-07 at 09:15 PM.

  14. #11534
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Yeah fuck those people who fall through the cracks. No one gives a shit about them anyways certainly not the people defending such a terrible policy.
    Exactly, so fuck it, because there are cracks, it's perfectly fine for those cracks to become canyons, because fuck empathy for everyone, let it all burn.

  15. #11535
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Exactly, so fuck it, because there are cracks, it's perfectly fine for those cracks to become canyons, because fuck empathy for everyone, let it all burn.
    "Hey, instead of at least putting some stopgap temporary putty in those cracks which might help things in the short term let's see what allowing this sledgehammer to beat on it for another 4 years will accomplish..."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Its a stupid plan that doesn't fix the problem or underlying issues. If it isn't a real solutions it only makes getting a one implemented that much harder.
    "HERMAGERD, DEMENTIA!"

  16. #11536
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Failed attempt at deflection. Its okay to admit Biden's plan doesn't fix any of the underlying issue. It is perfect accept to claim both plans are terrible and its people like you why the Democrats keep getting away with shitty policies.
    Good luck with ever getting anything actually accomplished on the federal front with an all or nothing attitude.

    Like, what's your actual solution? Hope that enough people die and that the system is shit for long enough that eventually someone with Sander's ideas gets enough political capital to somehow not only be elected but push the healthcare system you, personally, want through both chambers? You'll be twice dead before that happens if it ever happens, spoiler alert. Democracy is about compromise more than anything else.

    I'm Canadian, I know how cool a single payer system is. Would be great if you Americans wisened up to it- but people won't, not in enough numbers to make a difference anytime soon, not all of a sudden. The next best thing and incremental change from there is how you guys progress- that's how it always worked, in the same way same-sex marriage began as a fringe position in the '70s and is only recently becoming the norm across the States. And that issue isn't complicated by all the capital present in the American healthcare system; reform will be a long and painful process, not some magical slam-dunk because the right guy got elected President or something.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  17. #11537
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    "Hey, instead of at least putting some stopgap temporary putty in those cracks which might help things in the short term let's see what allowing this sledgehammer to beat on it for another 4 years will accomplish..."

    - - - Updated - - -



    "HERMAGERD, DEMENTIA!"
    I've seen jettisawn make terrible arguments before, in fact never seen him make a good argument, but this line takes the cake imo. There is absolutely no logic with him.

  18. #11538
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Of course they are also full of shit when it come to morality. The government should not force a company not dump chemicals into a river but it will be damned if it lets Adam and Steve adopt a child that it forced Susie to carry to term.

    Does matter if their voters by into it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He did not say they were the same though. He said that they are both shitty.
    Sure, but guess which one has a good chance to be reformed from the inside with enough groundswell of voters? Hint, not the republican party.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I did't say they were the same just that both terrible. Both parties have had a hand in the growing wealth inequality not seen since the gilded age. They both are servile to Wall Street over Main Street. Its reminds me of WWE or a soap opera. They act like enemies but then you got to look no further than Michele Obama lovingly embrace her war criminal Bush Jr. That is the real DEM and GOP party.
    So what's your solution? Not voting and hoping for some type of external force that destabilizes the system so progressive reform can be implemented? Or build upon the work of Bernie Sanders et al and work from the inside?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I'd like to point out that even if Biden's entire platform would be nothing but "I will once again guarantee to hold elections in 4 years and uphold basic constitutional law in the next 4 years" it would still be an infinite amount of times better than anything the GOP could conjure up at this junction.

    The GOP is the Fascist Party of America, no ifs or buts or whatnots.
    That's exactly right. There is no equivalence.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  19. #11539
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    We've had stop gaps since WW2. How many centuries we going to go before we catch up with the rest of the developed world?
    And healthcare is better now than it was then. Is it ideal? Nope. Will it ever be? Not bloody likely. Especially when you're trying to equate moving BACKWARDS to at the very least baby steps forward.

    Ask women and members of the LGBTQ community whether they're more optimistic about healthcare under Trump or the Democrats.

  20. #11540
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    We've had stop gaps since WW2. How many centuries we going to go before we catch up with the rest of the developed world?
    Whatever our problems are right now, allowing the US to literally become a fascist dictatorship to make a political point about the failure of incrementalism will sure as shit not fix anything.

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