My thoughts on the other side of Azeroth

[Kyphael]

No, that is not my point. I said Pandaria is literally an uncharted continent. Here is the Alliance intro in-game cinematic for Pandaria:



Skip to 0:30 "Ship wrecked... on an uncharted isle..."

And here's the Horde intro in-game cinematic:



Look at the map on 0:16. There is no Pandaria there. Then skip to 0:34. "Apparently they (the Alliance) found a massive uncharted landmass shrouded by dense mists."


No. My stance is backed by in-game logic and evidence. There is absolutely zero statement that the map of Azeroth is "complete" like the map of real world Earth is complete. There are still uncharted areas, and Pandaria is undeniable evidence of that. To point at the 2020 map of Azeroth and say "that is the whole of Azeroth and there is nothing else other than what is shown" is no more correct than back in early 2009 to point out at the Ulduar' globes of Azeroth and proclaim them to be "the whole of Azeroth and there is nothing else other than what is shown".


You're trying too hard to try to debunk what I'm writing that you're basically agreeing with me that there is an uncharted area of the map, there.

Uncharted area is one thing, "other side of Azeroth" is quite another, and this is what I meant about moving goal posts. You're debating me over nothing. What the hell are you even arguing? I've said over and over again, I know there will be new islands and landmasses discovered. Pandaria was fit into an area of the map Blizzard purposely left open to be put there later, much like Northrend before it. New islands and landmasses will be found on Azeroth, and they will fit into that map which continuously gets more crowded, but the argument was "is there another side of Azeroth?" There is not enough evidence to say so. Azeroth was once a mega continent as chronicled by The Titans that sundered into multiple parts during The Sundering. For there to be any significant other landmasses that the Titans did not somehow have knowledge of, or purposely omitted would be the only way to prove there is a significant landmass floating out there to justify proving the argument of "other side of Azeroth" correct. Anything less can be squeezed into the map of Azeroth we know and see. That's the point.

[Ielenia]

And look at the last thing I posted

And "the last thing you posted" has been debunked already. In-game representations of the world are meaningless. Again, back in Wrath we already had a "full globe representation of Azeroth" in the form of the holograms in Ulduar, and they failed to show Kezan, Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Broken Isles and Tol Barad, locations that alreday existed in the lore back then.

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Uncharted area is one thing, "other side of Azeroth" is quite another, and this is what I meant about moving goal posts.

No, it's not. Again, there is no moving of goalposts. Both are the same thing, in this context: the "other side of Azeroth" is quite literally an uncharted area.

You're debating me over nothing. What the hell are you even arguing? I've said over and over again, I know there will be new islands and landmasses discovered. Pandaria was fit into an area of the map Blizzard purposely left open to be put there later, much like Northrend before it. New islands and landmasses will be found on Azeroth, and they will fit into that map which continuously gets more crowded, but the argument was "is there another side of Azeroth?" There is not enough evidence to say so.

There is sufficient evidence, actually, and I've already explained that.

Or are you going to argue that the Titans and Titan Keepers did not know of the existence of those places?

Azeroth was once a mega continent as chronicled by The Titans that sundered into multiple parts during The Sundering. For there to be any significant other landmasses that the Titans did not somehow have knowledge of, or purposely omitted would be the only way to prove there is a significant landmass floating out there to justify proving the argument of "other side of Azeroth" correct.

You mean like Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Mechagon, Broken Isles, Kezan and Tol Barad, which are literally missing from the Titans' "knowledge" since they're not shown in the holographic depictions of Azeroth in Ulduar?

[Zyky]

The view from agrus shows that kalmidor and eastern kingdoms are mostly on the same side of Azeroth.

There is still plenty of room for smaller continents to the west of kalmidor or east of EK

The planet makes an entire rotation if you sit there long enough, go watch a video on youtube.

[Kyphael]

And "the last thing you posted" has been debunked already. In-game representations of the world are meaningless. Again, back in Wrath we already had a "full globe representation of Azeroth" in the form of the holograms in Ulduar, and they failed to show Kezan, Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Broken Isles and Tol Barad, locations that alreday existed in the lore back then.

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No, it's not. Again, there is no moving of goalposts. Both are the same thing, in this context: the "other side of Azeroth" is quite literally an uncharted area.


There is sufficient evidence, actually, and I've already explained that.

Or are you going to argue that the Titans and Titan Keepers did not know of the existence of those places?


You mean like Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Mechagon, Broken Isles, Kezan and Tol Barad, which are literally missing from the Titans' "knowledge" since they're not shown in the holographic depictions of Azeroth in Ulduar?

Uh... what? How can Zandalar be missing from the Titans' knowledge database if they created G'huun through experimentation in an old facility there? Kul'tiras is a meaningless chunk of land near Gilneas in-lore. Its in-game representation bears little significance measuring its size in this discussion. And no, "uncharted area" is nowhere near the same meaning in this context as "other side of Azeroth." All of those aforementioned aside from Zandalar are useless islands that broke off the major continents. Their prior omission and/or addition does not strengthen your argument for "another side of Azeroth." We're going in circles here. Lay your cards on the table and arrive at a point. Evidence shows there are no other major continents aside from EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and Pandaria which formed a mega continent. There ONE DAY COULD BE. That's not enough evidence because Blizzard left the possibility for new islands and smaller landmasses open to expand their game. It does NOT, by absence of evidence, mean there are major continents comparable to Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor, Northrend or Pandaria. Like I said, if/when they every do introduce such significant landmasses, I'll say you were right, but until then, your side of the debate relies on absence of evidence pointing to evidence by absence, and it's not a particularly conclusive argument. Depictions of Azeroth from outer space dictates no such significant landmasses yet uncharted, short of another "Mists of Pandaria" scenario which would be creatively redundant, and I don't see them re-doing. The new precedent is previously "small islands and landmasses like Kul'tiras and Broken Isles are scaled up in size considerably to be significant in-game." That's the best you can hope for outside of subscribing to a flat Azeroth.

[Ielenia]

Uh... what? How can Zandalar be missing from the Titans' knowledge database if they created G'huun through experimentation in an old facility there? Kul'tiras is a meaningless chunk of land near Gilneas in-lore. Its in-game representation bears little significance measuring its size in this discussion.

Kul'Tiras is not a "meaningless chunk of land". And you were the one who brought the Titan's knowledge. To which I replied with a picture of the Ulduar holographic displays of the world of Azeroth, and Ulduar was built by the Titans, and said holographic display is missing the land masses I mentioned. And it even lacks the depiction of Zandalar, which is not "a meaningless chunk of land" considering it has a Titan facility in it. It does not show in the holographic planet display.

And no, "uncharted area" is nowhere near the same meaning in this context as "other side of Azeroth." All of those aforementioned aside from Zandalar are useless islands that broke off the major continents.

The only reason you're calling them "useless" is to support your argument that the previous maps and depictions of Azeroth were "complete". But even if they are "useless", Zandalar is not "useless", because it houses an important Titan facility, and yet that does not show in the holographic display in Ulduar. And the Broken Isles, that house a "tomb" for the avatar of the Fallen Titan.

Evidence shows there are no other major continents aside from EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and Pandaria which formed a mega continent.

No. No, there isn't. In-game depictions of the world cannot be used as evidence that there isn't any more landmasses on the "other side" of Azeroth, for reasons pointed out already: we had prior "complete" displays of Azeroth that are missing important landmasses we know today.

Also, you are the one that are talking about "Kalimdor-sized" landmasses. All we're saying is landmasses, which can range from the size of the Broken Isles, or like Pandaria, and maybe like Kalimdor. Again: uncharted areas.

[Kyphael]

Kul'Tiras is not a "meaningless chunk of land". And you were the one who brought the Titan's knowledge. To which I replied with a picture of the Ulduar holographic displays of the world of Azeroth, and Ulduar was built by the Titans, and said holographic display is missing the land masses I mentioned. And it even lacks the depiction of Zandalar, which is not "a meaningless chunk of land" considering it has a Titan facility in it. It does not show in the holographic planet display.


The only reason you're calling them "useless" is to support your argument that the previous maps and depictions of Azeroth were "complete". But even if they are "useless", Zandalar is not "useless", because it houses an important Titan facility, and yet that does not show in the holographic display in Ulduar. And the Broken Isles, that house a "tomb" for the avatar of the Fallen Titan.


No. No, there isn't. In-game depictions of the world cannot be used as evidence that there isn't any more landmasses on the "other side" of Azeroth, for reasons pointed out already: we had prior "complete" displays of Azeroth that are missing important landmasses we know today.

Also, you are the one that are talking about "Kalimdor-sized" landmasses. All we're saying is landmasses, which can range from the size of the Broken Isles, or like Pandaria, and maybe like Kalimdor. Again: uncharted areas.

You didn't even recall Zandalar had a Titan facility until I reminded you/informed you.

Broken Isles is a lot bigger in-game than it is in-lore, same for Kul'tiras. Next to significant continents, they are meaningless in the scope of Azeroth, other than Zandalar for the aforementioned reasons. They're small isles. For your theory to bear any relevance, as in support the argument for "another side of Azeroth", anything new going forward would have to be as large as the major continents we know of to prove your point, otherwise, it can just be squeezed into the map as we see it now.

"Uncharted areas" is not the same thing as "other side of Azeroth." Any part of the sea in between Kalimdor, EK, Northrend, and Pandaria can be considered "uncharted."

[Swnem]

And look at the last thing I posted

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And that’s not what the OP, or most people here, were taking about. Context, *filtered*

Yes, it is.

Hate having to repeat myself.
The idea of the other side of Azeroth appeared in a Blizzcon Q&A because the south part of Kalimdor and EK has a hot/tropical/desert theme and Pandaria followed suit except for the mountanous regions. This sugests that this area is close to the equator and it's why it's warmer.

When talking about the other side, that is what is being talked about, the southern hemisphere.
No one should be talking about the back side of the map. That is silly and it's disappointing that people talk about it without knowing what it's about.

[Ielenia]

You didn't even recall Zandalar had a Titan facility until I reminded you/informed you.

So you think.

Broken Isles is a lot bigger in-game than it is in-lore, same for Kul'tiras. Next to significant continents, they are meaningless in the scope of Azeroth, other than Zandalar for the aforementioned reasons.

So you think. And must I remind you that the Broken Isles harbor the tomb of the avatar of Sargeras? I'd say that is a pretty significant place to keep an eye out, for the Titans.

They're small isles.

How's that for "small isles"? What's the super-importance of Azuremyst and Bloodmyst isles to show up on the map... but bigger and more important islands like Kul'Tiras, Broken Isles and Zandalar not show up?

"Uncharted areas" is not the same thing as "other side of Azeroth." Any part of the sea in between Kalimdor, EK, Northrend, and Pandaria can be considered "uncharted."

Oh, please. That doesn't even come close. The seas between the east coast of Kalimdor and west coast of Eastern Kingdoms is likely mostly charted. The sea between the west coast of Kalimdor and the east coast of Eastern Kingdoms, on the other hand, is not charted.

[Kyphael]

So you think.


So you think. And must I remind you that the Broken Isles harbor the tomb of the avatar of Sargeras? I'd say that is a pretty significant place to keep an eye out, for the Titans.



How's that for "small isles"? What's the super-importance of Azuremyst and Bloodmyst isles to show up on the map... but bigger and more important islands like Kul'Tiras, Broken Isles and Zandalar not show up?


Oh, please. That doesn't even come close. The seas between the east coast of Kalimdor and west coast of Eastern Kingdoms is likely mostly charted. The sea between the west coast of Kalimdor and the east coast of Eastern Kingdoms, on the other hand, is not charted.

That's what you think even though you just pointed to Pandaria as hiding in plain sight in what you claim is a "most likely charted" part of the sea.

Sure, Blizzard can stick any new landmass or island in between the west coast of Kalimdor and the east coast of Eastern Kingdoms, but story will dictate that, and until they do, it's just head canon. The only notable island/landmass remaining from lore yet unaccounted for are Dragon Isles, which have been rumored to be placed somewhere north of Quel'danas. Anything else will literally be brand new, but not big enough to necessitate saying "Azeroth has another side." The sea between the aforementioned continents is not that large to make up a whole "other side of Azeroth" as is the crux of this discussion until Blizzard reveals any such landmasses actually exist.

[SniperCT]

I think too many people are going apeshit over the phrase 'other side'. I mean look at our own moon, we always refer to it with 2 sides, right? the side we see and the dark side we can never see. I think that's what the OP was talking about. Even earth is divided into eastern and western hemispheres. The OP is implying the known landmasses are in one hemisphere and there's a second, uncharted hemisphere.

Anyway it's lore that ships that sail west from Kalimdor and east from the EK disappear, so there's something there. that's also why ships brave going around the maelstrom to sail between the two main continents because going around a huge maelstrom costs time and probably a lot of effort to avoid sinking.

And we can't use in game globes because we've been told they aren't accurate by blizzard. I don't even trust the view from Argus simply because they wouldn't want to have to field 10,000 questions if they DID show landmasses we didn't know about. It wouldn't be difficult to swap azeroth for an updated globe if they ever did add something to the other hemisphere.

It's also why I don't trust the chronicles to be 100% accurate because they've likely held things back that they don't want players to see before they're ready to show it.

It's not unreasonable to assume there's something between the veiled and forbidding seas. There's something there because anyone who tries to take what would otherwise be the easiest way between EK and Kalimdor never returns.

[Ticj]

That's the whole point. They can and will do whatever they want to expand their world, and create new content. But "other side of Azeroth" is literally subscribing to the flat Earth theory. They'll add new landmasses and islands in between the four known major continents (EK, Kalimdor, Pandaria, Northrend) and smaller landmasses (Broken Isles, Zandalar, Kul'tiras), but in order for OP's argument and yours to be true, "the forbidden sea" has to be as a sea as large as the sea on which Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms exist upon with new continents of comparable size. "Other side" implies other half, meaning half the planet not explored.

Nowhere has Blizzard ever hinted that might be a possibility. People are taking "uncharted, unexplored" lands as potentially whole new continents when Azeroth and Blizzard's idea of the world has always revolved around Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor, Northrend, and most recently Pandaria having made up a MEGA continent, with other smaller parts broken off (Zandalar, Kul'tiras, etc. Again, Kul'tiras in lore is nowhere as big as presented in-game.) To reveal a new "other side of Azeroth" with continents as relevant in size as Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms would be a major retcon of everything they've ever written. They're better off creating another planet. I'm not denying there will be new landmasses or islands discovered, but they will be squeezed into the map we see in between the four major continents we know, not anything on the scale we're discussing would be "other side of Azeroth."

No, it is not "literally" subscribing to the flat earther theory. What you don't seem to realize is that they are changing the maps in this game all the time. Like my god, compare the size of the great sea between vanilla and now. It's nearly doubled in size. Do you actually think that the forbidding sea is only a short little hop between kalimdor and eastern kingdoms?

Yes, the game has primarily centered around the 3 main continents. But, I think it's becoming quite apparent that they are using up all the lore from the RTS's, correct? If we are to have another expansion centered in azeroth containing an actual continent, do you think they're just going to throw a northrend sized piece of land in the middle of the great sea? It's crowded as hell already.

By the way, the way the map is laid out makes the forbidding sea look smaller than it really is. For example, https://ontheworldmap.com/oceans-and...itical-map.jpg

vs

https://geology.com/world/world-map.gif

[Ringthane]

And "the last thing you posted" has been debunked already. In-game representations of the world are meaningless. Again, back in Wrath we already had a "full globe representation of Azeroth" in the form of the holograms in Ulduar, and they failed to show Kezan, Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Broken Isles and Tol Barad, locations that alreday existed in the lore back then.

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No, it's not. Again, there is no moving of goalposts. Both are the same thing, in this context: the "other side of Azeroth" is quite literally an uncharted area.


There is sufficient evidence, actually, and I've already explained that.

Or are you going to argue that the Titans and Titan Keepers did not know of the existence of those places?


You mean like Kul'Tiras, Zandalar, Mechagon, Broken Isles, Kezan and Tol Barad, which are literally missing from the Titans' "knowledge" since they're not shown in the holographic depictions of Azeroth in Ulduar?

They even moved the Eastern Kingdoms over to the right a few however many miles to accommodate new land masses. The maps change if Blizzard wants them to change, and if they want another continent, they'll make one.

Besides, no one's ever addressed the question of why all the ships and zeppelins going between Eastern Kingdoms and Kalidmor go around the dangerous Malestrom, and none go from the eastern side of Eastern Kingdoms to the western side of Kalimdor, or vice versa. Something's got to be stopping them from traveling that way, but what?

[SniperCT]

Besides, no one's ever addressed the question of why all the ships and zeppelins going between Eastern Kingdoms and Kalidmor go around the dangerous Malestrom, and none go from the eastern side of Eastern Kingdoms to the western side of Kalimdor, or vice versa. Something's got to be stopping them from traveling that way, but what?

They straight up say ships go missing and never return. I love me a good nautical mystery.

Maybe THAT'S how I'll finally get a player ship in this game. I've only been asking for nearly 16 years lmao

[Ticj]

As said in some previous posts, there is also a lore basis for something being there. Ships that sail that direction never return, so obviously blizzard is hinting at something being there.

[Kyphael]

No, it is not "literally" subscribing to the flat earther theory. What you don't seem to realize is that they are changing the maps in this game all the time. Like my god, compare the size of the great sea between vanilla and now. It's nearly doubled in size. Do you actually think that the forbidding sea is only a short little hop between kalimdor and eastern kingdoms?

Yes, the game has primarily centered around the 3 main continents. But, I think it's becoming quite apparent that they are using up all the lore from the RTS's, correct? If we are to have another expansion centered in azeroth containing an actual continent, do you think they're just going to throw a northrend sized piece of land in the middle of the great sea? It's crowded as hell already.

By the way, the way the map is laid out makes the forbidding sea look smaller than it really is. For example, https://ontheworldmap.com/oceans-and...itical-map.jpg

vs

https://geology.com/world/world-map.gif

Wouldn't the ships that have gone missing have been sucked into the maelstrom? It's kind of known to be perilous.

Again, I've never disputed new islands or landmasses won't be discovered. That's not the point of this thread, at all. Look at expansions since Pandaria, and where we've gone to quest on Azeroth. Broken Isles, Kul'tiras, and Zandalar. Broken Isles and Kul'tiras are notably depicted much larger in-game than in lore so we can have expansive new quest zones without having to re-write lore to an extreme extent regarding actual geographical sizes matching their lore descriptions. Zandalar is a decent-sized island. Barring a major retcon like I've been saying, that seems to be the new precedent Blizzard is setting. We're not likely going to get another Pandaria-sized continent hiding in plain sight as it would diminish everything they've established regarding the lore they've established in the RTS games, expanded and explored in the last near 16 years. Instead of stretching that map out, they would be better off creating a new world to explore. That or they'll continue stretching the map with new landmasses and islands squeezed here and there like they have since Pandaria, but again, that does not mesh with this idea that there is whole "other side of Azeroth", proportionally as large as the one we "see" with continents of any significant size, IE: as large as the big four that once made up the one mega continent chronicled by the Titans.

[Ticj]

Wouldn't the ships that have gone missing have been sucked into the maelstrom? It's kind of known to be perilous.

Again, I've never disputed new islands or landmasses won't be discovered. That's not the point of this thread, at all. Look at expansions since Pandaria, and where we've gone to quest on Azeroth. Broken Isles, Kul'tiras, and Zandalar. Broken Isles and Kul'tiras are notably depicted much larger in-game than in lore so we can have expansive new quest zones without having to re-write lore to an extreme extent regarding actual geographical sizes matching their lore descriptions. Zandalar is a decent-sized island. Barring a major retcon like I've been saying, that seems to be the new precedent Blizzard is setting. We're not likely going to get another Pandaria-sized continent hiding in plain sight as it would diminish everything they've established regarding the lore they've established in the RTS games, expanded and explored in the last near 16 years. Instead of stretching that map out, they would be better off creating a new world to explore. That or they'll continue stretching the map with new landmasses and islands squeezed here and there like they have since Pandaria, but again, that does not mesh with this idea that there is whole "other side of Azeroth", proportionally as large as the one we "see" with continents of any significant size, IE: as large as the big four that once made up the one mega continent chronicled by the Titans.

Um, no? Because there isn't a maelstrom in the forbidding sea. To clarify, it has been confirmed in lore that no ship that has ever ventured into the forbidding sea has returned. It is 100% uncharted.

Also, you're reading WAY too much into when the OP said "other side of azeroth". He was just referring to the what could be inbetween the veiled sea and the forbidding sea.

[korijenkins]

This. There is no "other side of Azeroth." The 2-dimensional map we see wraps around a globe.

They've literally said there's "another side" that is entirely unexplored.

Stop trying to be cutesy by pretending you don't know what OP meant and respond seriously.

[Kyphael]

Um, no? Because there isn't a maelstrom in the forbidding sea. To clarify, it has been confirmed in lore that no ship that has ever ventured into the forbidding sea has returned. It is 100% uncharted.

Also, you're reading WAY too much into when the OP said "other side of azeroth". He was just referring to the what could be inbetween the veiled sea and the forbidding sea.

I guess? I mean, isn't that the topic of the discussion? I know now what OP most likely meant, but it was not clear from the get go, which incited the amount of sarcastic replies and flat-earther counter-arguments.

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They've literally said there's "another side" that is entirely unexplored.

Stop trying to be cutesy by pretending you don't know what OP meant and respond seriously.

Pretty sure I have been posting seriously otherwise I would have been infracted. Not like this please is laxed on the rules. Also, who is they, and where is that proof? Six pages in, I haven't see any such official statement from Blizzard, and I'm pretty sure it would have been shoved in my face by now if it existed.

[Ielenia]

That's what you think even though you just pointed to Pandaria as hiding in plain sight in

I never said Pandaria was "hiding in plain sight". You're now purposely misrepresenting my argument. The

what you claim is a "most likely charted" part of the sea.

And it is the most charted considering the amount of ships that make the Kalimdor<->Eastern Kingdoms routes on a daily basis.

Sure, Blizzard can stick any new landmass or island in between the west coast of Kalimdor and the east coast of Eastern Kingdoms, but story will dictate that, and until they do, it's just head canon.

As long as you admit that it's also headcanon that there is nothing between the west coast of Kalimdor and the east coast of Eastern Kingdoms.
As long as you admit that it's also headcanon that the representations of Azeroth shown within the game are "complete" and nothing else exists other than what is shown on those representations.

The only notable island/landmass remaining from lore yet unaccounted for are Dragon Isles, which have been rumored to be placed somewhere north of Quel'danas. Anything else will literally be brand new, but not big enough to necessitate saying "Azeroth has another side."

That is headcanon, as well.

The sea between the aforementioned continents is not that large to make up a whole "other side of Azeroth" as is the crux of this discussion until Blizzard reveals any such landmasses actually exist.

That is also headcanon.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm still waiting on your answer to my question: why were the Azyremyst and Bloodmyst isles worthy of being added to the Ulduar's holographic representation of Azeroth, but not bigger isles, like Kul'Tiras, Broken Isles and Zandalar?

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They even moved the Eastern Kingdoms over to the right a few however many miles to accommodate new land masses. The maps change if Blizzard wants them to change, and if they want another continent, they'll make one.

Besides, no one's ever addressed the question of why all the ships and zeppelins going between Eastern Kingdoms and Kalidmor go around the dangerous Malestrom, and none go from the eastern side of Eastern Kingdoms to the western side of Kalimdor, or vice versa. Something's got to be stopping them from traveling that way, but what?

Exactly. It's not like the the whole of Azeroth has suicidal tendencies: "We could go through a safer, shorter route, but.... eh, let's gamble our lives and risk dying by flying/sailing close to the Maelstrom."

[CerealLord]

But those are everywhere in Azeroth anyway?

Think even bigger and more vicious.