Shadowlands Beta - Upgrading PvP Gear with Honor

[Hyeonh]

Them taking out pvp vendor was a huge mistake. Glad to see them back. BFA pvp was just not really worthwhile because vast majority of the gear was useless and to even gain a foothold in it required you to be overgeared for it which renders the point of pvp gear completely moot because not only was the gear given were random they were completely inferior for entry grade players who could just do easy mythic plus runs for superior gear that easily outperform any pvp given.

[Recovery]

Sooo much crying and nagging...

So you wan to grind BG's and get Mythic raid equivalent gear?

It's like doing normal dungeons and expecting Mythic raid gear....

Regular BG's are equivalent to normal dungeons. You Grind away and upgrade to something equivalent to heroic dungeons, then to LFR and cap out at like normal or heroic raid. That's more than fair to someone who doesn't want to progress/casuals. Back when we had vendors, casuals or BG grinders didn't have the luxury of upgrading, so guess what... they did arenas!

It's meant as temporary gearing until you advance in Arena.

If you choose not to progress, or are a casual player, then it's as far as you'll go.

This game is based on rewarding those that put in the most effort.

There is nothing wrong with Honor gear not having the right secondary stats, it has always been the case when vendors were around. Now, if Conquest gear will not have the right secondary stats, that's a problem.

This is an excellent system, that in the beginning stages will drive people to do/experience as much content as possible to gear faster. Later, serious arena players can stick to solely arenas and have BIS gear, Raiders will stick to raids and have BIS gear, and BG grinders.... Well, they'll have Exactly what they deserve and cry that they are entitled to more.

You have some good points and some not so good points.

The problem is that in BFA there was NO pvp gear that was comparable to high M+ gear or mythic raid gear. When you got your box on tuesday from pvp, the piece either went straight to scrapper or vendor. Also

We are worried that the same will be the case for shadowlands. PvPers arent worried about the "effort" put into gearing.. Were worried about not being rewarded equally for the effort we put into our preferred area of the game.

In dungeons, there are pieces that have basically every stat combination on them and they are 100% targetable.. That goes for Normal dungeons all the way up to whatever the highest key people can complete is.. We want the same for pvp gear.

In the past, the PVP vendor gear had gear with PVP stats on the pieces. This was okay as it made the pvp stat outshine pve gear. So, no, its not as simple as saying that in the past the vendor gear for honor didnt have correct stat combinations. If there is no pvp stat, we at least need to have items with correct secondary stat variations.

What we want is to not have to touch pve AT ALL, if we dont want to. Starting at base set of gear and ending at BIS.

[tamarin]

Regular BG's are equivalent to normal dungeons.

No, they are not. Stop it with the false equivalences.
You can and will end up against people with mythic gear in regular BGs. Do you fight mythic bosses in regular dungeons?

You can say that random BGs are equivalent to normal dungeons the day they forbid people from entering random BGs above "regular dungeon" ilevel range. (which would obviously be a terrible idea)

If you actually use your brain instead of spewing the same dogmatic garbage as always and follow the reasoning to its conclusion, you'll arrive at the same conclusion that the wow team (the good one, not the B team we have now) already reached back in 2007: you need separate gear for pvp, which calls for a specific pvp stat.

[Kalach]

You have some good points and some not so good points.

The problem is that in BFA there was NO pvp gear that was comparable to high M+ gear or mythic raid gear. When you got your box on tuesday from pvp, the piece either went straight to scrapper or vendor. Also

We are worried that the same will be the case for shadowlands. PvPers arent worried about the "effort" put into gearing.. Were worried about not being rewarded equally for the effort we put into our preferred area of the game.

In dungeons, there are pieces that have basically every stat combination on them and they are 100% targetable.. That goes for Normal dungeons all the way up to whatever the highest key people can complete is.. We want the same for pvp gear.

What we want is to not have to touch pve AT ALL, if we dont want to. Starting at base set of gear and ending at BIS.

As a fellow PVPer, I feel for your concerns and agree with it. The only thing I'm saying, is that I only hear that Honor gear has wrong stats, has anyone checked out Conquest gear stats?

As much as I'd like for Honor gear to be ideal, I can see the reasoning for Blizz not to make it so.

They need players to co-exist and fill in the gaps in Arenas, Mythics, raids, etc.

Overall, this is the first time in wow history that I see developers so involved in conversations with players/streamers and listening to feedback.

I'm more worried about covenant abilities/legendaries, they've shown time and time, when they try to experiment with something new and complex, it ends up being unbalanced and require and absurd grind.

It was nice when you had to worry about gear and talents.... that's it!

Now you have to worry about gear, talents, AP, corruption resistance, corruption pieces, azerite gear, neck essences....

[Knolan]

Just cap PVE gear item level on BGs and Arenas so that PvP gear is the best for pvp and be done with it.
If I feel obligated to do raids / mythic+ to play pvp, I will simply not play the game at all and wait for TBC.

[Kalach]

No, they are not. Stop it with the false equivalences.
You can and will end up against people with mythic gear in regular BGs. Do you fight mythic bosses in regular dungeons?

You can say that random BGs are equivalent to normal dungeons the day they forbid people from entering random BGs above "regular dungeon" ilevel range. (which would obviously be a terrible idea)

If you actually use your brain instead of spewing the same dogmatic garbage as always and follow the reasoning to its conclusion, you'll arrive at the same conclusion that the wow team (the good one, not the B team we have now) already reached back in 2007: you need separate gear for pvp, which calls for a specific pvp stat.

If I actually use my brain, hmm. What an elegant reply, worthy of a true champion!

Whelp, smarty pants... Who said that BG's or are created solely for the grind worthy BG elitists? Who said that any kind of pvp has to be on equal playing field? You want equality, vote for... I mean play CS or other FPS games.

Did you not get a participation trophy this year? Why are you so mad?

[tamarin]

If I actually use my brain, hmm. What an elegant reply, worthy of a true champion!

Whelp, smarty pants... Who said that BG's or are created solely for the grind worthy BG elitists? Who said that any kind of pvp has to be on equal playing field? You want equality, vote for... I mean play CS or other FPS games.

Did you not get a participation trophy this year? Why are you so mad?

You're dumber than shit.

[Becket]

This is bad, we´re obligated to do PVE again because the item level of the PvP gear at max upgrade is practically the same as the heroic dungeon.... we DONT wanna touch PvE AT AAAAAAAALL! we need decent PvP gear.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Give pvp item an increased ilvl while pvping. So during duels, arena, battlegrounds... As a band-aid fix for now. Than implement a real solution later.

[Kalach]

You're dumber than shit.

You must have real issues at home/in life, truly seek some help before it's too late!

[Brocksley]

Because it was an awful stat that mostly turned People wanting to get into PvP away from it.

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I see the People that have been crying for the last few years about not being able to buy gear with Honor are now crying again that they now have to grind Honor to get gear.

The Rollercoaster never ends.

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Isn't the entire point of PvP gear that you like to PvP? Or are you just one of the PvP'ers that expect full PvP gear straight away with no actual work because "WAHH I COULD JUST PvE INSTEAD!"

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The difference being there is no cap to how much you can grind PvP except time, whereas LFR gear is one chance a Week.

No. What I am saying is, the time and effort I put into PvP gearing should yield the same results as if I put the same amount of time and effort into PvE gearing.

[Kalach]

No. What I am saying is, the time and effort I put into PvP gearing should yield the same results as if I put the same amount of time and effort into PvE gearing.

So put that effort into an area of pvp that actually has progression, like Arena or RBGs, and you'll have equivalent of of PVE progression gear... Problem solved.

[Tarx]

I really like to play and buy pvp gear with honor points like old good days of WotLK.

[Kalach]

And who said that there won't be Honor gear with good secondary stats?

With-in a minute of actually researching and without listening to crybaby/panicking streamers, I found this.

shadowlands.wowhead.com/leather-armor/name:sinful#0+9+18

Plenty of Honor gear that has Haste/Versa and other stats for other classes.

[Kuja]

Ooh. I like this. Weapon upgrades? Yes please. They better have a similar mechanic for PVE too, and don't block weapon upgrading. Give us valor points that can upgrade PVE loot from trinkets to weapons.

[Recovery]

So put that effort into an area of pvp that actually has progression, like Arena or RBGs, and you'll have equivalent of of PVE progression gear... Problem solved.

but you DONT. Arena / RBG didnt award gear equivocal to that of pve in BFA and so far, it doesnt in Shadowlands.

[Cyranis]

Ooh. I like this. Weapon upgrades? Yes please. They better have a similar mechanic for PVE too, and don't block weapon upgrading. Give us valor points that can upgrade PVE loot from trinkets to weapons.

That pvp gear fully upgraded is 190. LFR is 187-194. You want to upgrade blue normal dungeon gear to LFR level? What would be the point?

[Recovery]

And who said that there won't be Honor gear with good secondary stats?

With-in a minute of actually researching and without listening to crybaby/panicking streamers, I found this.

shadowlands.wowhead.com/leather-armor/name:sinful#0+9+18

Plenty of Honor gear that has Haste/Versa and other stats for other classes.

You know, there are some of us who have beta...

We have access to the gear already..

There are like 3 or 4 pieces of cloth gear that have haste vers. Thats including off pieces such as cloak, neck, rings.

There are some pieces that dont even have a Versatility / X variant at all.

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Ooh. I like this. Weapon upgrades? Yes please. They better have a similar mechanic for PVE too, and don't block weapon upgrading. Give us valor points that can upgrade PVE loot from trinkets to weapons.

Why would you need to upgrade any gear when your higher tier content awards gear with item levels 10-20 points higher than base PVP honor gear? lmao

[Kuja]

That pvp gear fully upgraded is 190. LFR is 187-194. You want to upgrade blue normal dungeon gear to LFR level? What would be the point?

I don't feel like dungeon items (Mythics an exception of course) or quest rewards should be upgradable. Some restrictions on that definitely.

[Recovery]

I don't feel like dungeon items (Mythics an exception of course) or quest rewards should be upgradable. Some restrictions on that definitely.

Theres no reason that PVE items should be upgradeable at all.

You have Normal dungeon, heroic dungeon, mythic dungeon, Mythic+, LFR, normal, Heroic, Mythic raid for your gear progression.

In pvp there is unrated and rated. That is why there is upgrade via currency. Blizzard is attempting to reconcile the screw up the made with gearing for pvp in BFA, but theyre still not hitting the nail on the head. WE dont want to be FORCED to pve in order to compete at the highest level with people that DO pve.... in pvp. It is perfectly acceptable to separate the 2.

Imagine HAVING to pvp for at least 5 pieces of your bis gear for raiding.. Your mind would explode and there would be salty alligator tears on every forum imaginable. Ill take it a step further.. Imagine having to pvp and win in the top .05 and 0.01% of the ladder in order to obtain those 5 pieces... Yeah right.