BFA: the longest lasting xpac in the history of WoW

[Eggroll]

BfA according to Reddit user u/MethixYo
Sums up every xpac after MoP imho by and large

[Ielenia]

Again. Dragged on does not mean only the last patch. Stop redefining words because of the argument you want to make.

Okay. So what does "dragged on" means to you, then?

Because, to me, it means "lasts longer than necessary" in a negative connotation. Which just so happens to fit the dictionary definition of the term, so I'm not "redefining words", here.

And "longer than necessary", to me, means after its last content patch. When the expansion is "done", so to speak.

[rhorle]

And "longer than necessary", to me, means after its last content patch. When the expansion is "done", so to speak.

But that is the thing. You are projecting what you feel onto the meaning of the word and then arguing that it has to mean only that. The entire expansion could have lasted longer than necessary. 8.2 certainly did because of the holiday delay. That is the problem when you take a general phrase and assign it only a specific meaning only to prop up your argument that you created in the first place.

8.3 hasn't really dragged on. Its a one of the shorter droughts. Part of the problem is Blizzard didn't add in a .5 minor content patch like they did with Legion. So the perception is that it is a lot longer than it really is. Most people were even expecting the expansion to launch a month or two after what it is. So BFA isn't even lasting as long as most people expected it to.

And no the launch of the last content patch is not when an expansion ends. Stop redefining words. If you truly felt that way you would have been factoring the last patch in for the total length of an expansion rather then just for the "content drought".

[Nerovar]

Why would you expect this expansion to be good? By the looks of it Shadowlands will be a boring, convoluted mess of unnecessary and uninteresting gameplay systems with the worst story to date (because apparently Blizzard's writing team has written the story into a corner where it can't do anything but cannibalize past, established lore). Even if they had 2 more years they wouldn't have made a worthwhile expansion because they don't suffer from time constraints but a lack of vision and talent.

[Mr Sloth]

Vanilla - 785 days
TBC - 668 days
WotLK - 755 days
Cata - 659 days
MoP - 780 days
WoD - 657 days
Legion - 715 days
BFA - 806 days

Saw a lot of people arguing over months when we could just look at days to see how long something was. Adding this in here.

[rhorle]

Why would you expect this expansion to be good? By the looks of it Shadowlands will be a boring, convoluted mess of unnecessary and uninteresting gameplay systems with the worst story to date (because apparently Blizzard's writing team has written the story into a corner where it can't do anything but cannibalize past, established lore). Even if they had 2 more years they wouldn't have made a worthwhile expansion because they don't suffer from time constraints but a lack of vision and talent.

You are just jaded. The story is not the worst to date and has some pretty interesting twists if that datamined book makes it to release.

[Nerovar]

You are just jaded. The story is not the worst to date and has some pretty interesting twists if that datamined book makes it to release.

Nah, it's pretty bad and mostly based on retcons. Hard pass.

[rhorle]

Nah, it's pretty bad and mostly based on retcons. Hard pass.

Shadowlands isn't mostly based on retcons. Nor is the lore any worse then any other part of the game.

[Nerovar]

Shadowlands isn't mostly based on retcons. Nor is the lore any worse then any other part of the game.

Wdym The entire premise of Shadowlands is based on retcons. Prior 9.0 the Shadowlands were just a grey version of our world where restless spirits would linger. Also the entire "the sky rips open and we can go there" thing only works because they somehow retconned the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne to be some spooky, uber-powerful artifacts from the Shadowlands with spooky, uber-powerful stolen magic.

[arkanon]

Shadowlands isn't mostly based on retcons. Nor is the lore any worse then any other part of the game.

I'm not super excited for SL, I'll give it a blast and see how it feels. But to say the lore us the issue is pretty crazy, I agree it is at least on par with the rest of the expac. Am I as interested as when "you are not prepared" blasted out of my sound blaster fx? No, not even close.

Does SL have some things I am not excited for? Yup. Is lore one of the main issues? Not even on the scale.

- - - Updated - - -

Wdym The entire premise of Shadowlands is based on retcons. Prior 9.0 the Shadowlands were just a grey version of our world where restless spirits would linger. Also the entire "the sky rips open and we can go there" thing only works because they somehow retconned the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne to be some spooky, uber-powerful artifacts from the Shadowlands with spooky, uber-powerful stolen magic.

For someone so worried about lore, you don't know much about lore.

[Dixa]

This level of borrowed powers started legoin; it was a problem in legion, still a problem in BFA, and will be a problem in SL.

I would say it's far worse

In legion the borrowed power was mostly artifacts and relics that boosted specific traits on artifacts. The conduit/soul bind system is that in SL

Both have legendaries and teh SL legendary options are actually worse than Legions were for some classes but this time you can easily target the one you want

Covenants though, their unique abilities, and the fact that their soul binds are different are the real problem. what if i'm an alchemist/herbalist but the fae covenant abilities are totally ass for my class? the fae soul binds drop that random herb cache. kiryan drops an enchanting cache and from testing in the beta it's very frequent - and it's on your very first soul bind tree vs. the 2nd or third for the other covenants.

there is more borrowed power in this expansion than in any other, and blizzard is painting themselves in a corner. there will be no way to relatively increase overall player power in the expansion after SL without making this exponentially worse. the smart play will be to abandon borrowed power and move that power permanently to the classes without introducing too much ability bloat.

[korijenkins]

Wrong. Mists of Pandaria lasted 26 months, as well.

However, MoP's last patch (5.4: Siege of Orgrimmar) lasted fourteen months: from September 14, 2013 to November 13, 2014. Whereas BfA's last patch (8.3: Visions of N'Zoth) will last only ten months. And on top of that, MoP's last patch only gave us Proving Grounds and Timeless Isle as "repeatable content" and even then those didn't have much to do. Visions of N'Zoth gave us two "new" quest zones that changed every week, and Horrific Visions. On top of that, BfA has the benefit of Mythic+ dungeons.

All of that put together makes BfA not feel anywhere near as "long" as MoP did, really.

Don't you remember how bad the "MoP content drought" was, back then, while we waited for the next expansion?

It's a bit misleading, well no it's straight up incorrect to say the Timeless Isle had little to do. The Timeless Isle was one of the most packed areas ever, PvP to be had, PvE events and world bosses. It was a celebration at the end of the expansion.

[rhorle]

Wdym The entire premise of Shadowlands is based on retcons. Prior 9.0 the Shadowlands were just a grey version of our world where restless spirits would linger. Also the entire "the sky rips open and we can go there" thing only works because they somehow retconned the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne to be some spooky, uber-powerful artifacts from the Shadowlands with spooky, uber-powerful stolen magic.

Knowing little about something is not the same thing as a retcon.

[Nerovar]

Knowing little about something is not the same thing as a retcon.

Feel free to explain how the things I mentioned are not retcons then. Pro tip: you can't.

[rhorle]

there is more borrowed power in this expansion than in any other, and blizzard is painting themselves in a corner. there will be no way to relatively increase overall player power in the expansion after SL without making this exponentially worse. the smart play will be to abandon borrowed power and move that power permanently to the classes without introducing too much ability bloat.

You are just trading one for the other. If borrowed power gets exponentially worse each expansion then so would having it be permanent power. The entire premise of borrowed power is that it lasts for the expansion only. So you don't have to worry about building upon it and the bloat and other issues that arises from that. You keep the few that worked really well and bake it into the class and drop the rest.

- - - Updated - - -

Feel free to explain how the things I mentioned are not retcons then. Pro tip: you can't.

Were you ever told what was all in Shadowlands? That it was only a tiny grey spec and nothing else? Were you told how the Legion obtained the helm and sword from the Nathrezim? You can't show that anything that Blizzard is doing is an actual retroactive change of the lore versus simply explaining it in greater detail.

[Ielenia]

It's a bit misleading, well no it's straight up incorrect to say the Timeless Isle had little to do. The Timeless Isle was one of the most packed areas ever, PvP to be had, PvE events and world bosses. It was a celebration at the end of the expansion.

I suppose I should've been more specific. Yes, you have things to do in Timeless Isle, but those were mostly either "big grind" or "long camp", as far as I can recall. You had the world bosses, yes, and one(?) daily there for Shaohao rep.

There were no 'dailies' or 'world quests' or 'dungeons/instances' to do.

Feel free to explain how the things I mentioned are not retcons then. Pro tip: you can't.

Which meaning of "retcon" are you using?
• "Retroactive continuity", as in, adding onto the backstory of a person/event/object/location.
• The colloquial meaning of the term which means removing and replacing existing backstory of a person/event/object/location.

[Nerovar]

Were you ever told what was all in Shadowlands? That it was only a tiny grey spec and nothing else? Were you told how the Legion obtained the helm and sword from the Nathrezim? You can't show that anything that Blizzard is doing is an actual retroactive change of the lore versus simply explaining it in greater detail.

So you don't think it alters the continuity if you change these past events in order to mean something completely different so you can validate your new expansion idea?

Crafted by the Burning Legion to corrupt the world of Azeroth, the soul-stealing runeblade Frostmourne was shattered by Ashbringer atop Icecrown Citadel.

This was from Blizzard's preview for the Artifact Weapons back in Legion.

We also had tons of quests exploring the Shadowlands to some capacities prior to Shadowlands. None of them resembled anything even remotely similar to what we're going to see in 9.0. I mean, you can just glance over these things and say "Oh, well guess we just didn't know" but it doesn't change the fact that those are retcons.

"[...] Retroactive continuity ultimately means that history flows fundamentally from the future into the past, that the future is not basically a product of the past."

[Ielenia]

But that is the thing. You are projecting what you feel onto the meaning of the word and then arguing that it has to mean only that. The entire expansion could have lasted longer than necessary. 8.2 certainly did because of the holiday delay. That is the problem when you take a general phrase and assign it only a specific meaning only to prop up your argument that you created in the first place.

8.3 hasn't really dragged on. Its a one of the shorter droughts. Part of the problem is Blizzard didn't add in a .5 minor content patch like they did with Legion. So the perception is that it is a lot longer than it really is. Most people were even expecting the expansion to launch a month or two after what it is. So BFA isn't even lasting as long as most people expected it to.

And no the launch of the last content patch is not when an expansion ends. Stop redefining words. If you truly felt that way you would have been factoring the last patch in for the total length of an expansion rather then just for the "content drought".

I never said the last content patch is when an expansion ends. I specifically said "is done", meaning there wouldn't be anything new added for the expansion, not when it "ends".

- - - Updated - - -

So you don't think it alters the continuity if you change these past events in order to mean something completely different so you can validate your new expansion idea?

Crafted by the Burning Legion to corrupt the world of Azeroth, the soul-stealing runeblade Frostmourne was shattered by Ashbringer atop Icecrown Citadel.

This was from Blizzard's preview for the Artifact Weapons back in Legion.

We also had tons of quests exploring the Shadowlands to some capacities prior to Shadowlands. None of them resembled anything even remotely similar to what we're going to see in 9.0. I mean, you can just glance over these things and say "Oh, well guess we just didn't know" but it doesn't change the fact that those are retcons.

"[...] Retroactive continuity ultimately means that history flows fundamentally from the future into the past, that the future is not basically a product of the past."

You do know that doesn't necessarily change anything about the original continuity, right? Because the Legion could still have entered Torghast and crafted the sword and helm there. So "the Legion created Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination" backstory would remain the same.

[ldev]

More armchair developers not knowing what they are talking about.

The transition from office work to WFH is not a smooth one. It takes time to set up a home office. It takes time to get remote VPNs working properly. There are more distractions at home. Loved ones do their best not to disturb you but it can take a while for them to get used to you being there.
Source? I am an actual software developer that now WFH in a large organisation and I actually played Vanilla.

I'm a developer too, have been doing this professionally for exactly 10 years since I was 20.

Takes time to set up a home office - nope. Already had my home office to do development on the side.

Takes time to get remote VPNs working properly - nope. People take days to WFH all the time. Same shit as any day - right click on FortiClient, select my location office. Done. Wife had issue with her non IT firm VPN - had to call support, support told us that our router didn't had enabled some routing feature (can't remember it has been so long ago) - another call to our ISP, they enabled that remotely. 20 minutes and VPN still is working fine.

There are more distractions at home - nope. Yes, pets require attention every hour, I take a break every hour anyways at work. And in the workplace colleagues can interrupt you by asking a question by speaking, but when they write on Slack - you can pretend you didn't see the message and reply after half an hour.

"in a large organisation" - yea, large as in large joke - can't even set up VPN for their workers properly, give me a fucking break. I work in a company of ~600 people, and productivity slightly went up during quarantine.

[bullseyed]

At 26 months by the time Shadowlands is out.

Nov 23 2004 (784 days)
Jan 16 2007 (667 days)
Nov 13 2008 (754 days)
Dec 07 2010 (658 days)
Sep 25 2012 (779 days)
Nov 13 2014 (656 days)
Aug 30 2016 (713 days)
Aug 13 2018 (806 days)
Oct 27 2020


It is the longest by 22 days, 27 days over the third longest and 52 days over the fourth longest.

... in the middle of the largest global event in 100 years, when many/most games and movies are being delayed by months. By only being 20-some days late, it's actually ahead of schedule.