1. #11701
    "Joe Budden" was trending on Twitter and I mistakenly thought it was some new stupid right-wing meme.

    Do NOT go down that rabbit hole. Trust me. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with someone by that name doing something really, really awful.

    I sacrificed my eyes so you don't have to.
    Last edited by Benggaul; 2020-09-08 at 11:02 PM.

  2. #11702
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Coastal Plaguelands
    Posts
    2,934
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    "Joe Budden" was trending on Twitter and I mistakenly thought it was some new stupid right-wing meme.

    Do NOT go down that rabbit hole. Trust me. It has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with someone by that name doing something really, really awful.

    I sacrificed my eyes so you don't have to.
    I thought it was related to the Def Jam: Fight for New York sequel rumors
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  3. #11703
    what the actual fuck is this man doing

    https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/stat...11601864704006
    New in @WGAL
    interview

    Q: Do you condemn Antifa?

    BIDEN: Yes, I do -- violence, no matter who it is.
    There are no anti-fascists on the ballot. There is no excuse or defense for this, the only way you can defend these comments as a liberal is by just pushing Trump's bullshit talking points about "ANTIFA".
    Last edited by Flower Milk; 2020-09-09 at 12:14 AM.

  4. #11704
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    what the actual fuck is this man doing

    https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/stat...11601864704006


    There are no anti-fascists on the ballot. There is no excuse or defense for this, the only way you can defend these comments as a liberal is by just pushing Trump's bullshit talking points about "ANTIFA".
    He instantly qualified it by saying he condemned the violence. Keep digging.

  5. #11705
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    what the actual fuck is this man doing

    https://twitter.com/JTHVerhovek/stat...11601864704006


    There are no anti-fascists on the ballot. There is no excuse or defense for this, the only way you can defend these comments as a liberal is by just pushing Trump's bullshit talking points about "ANTIFA".
    Or...because antifa aren't the bogeyman that conservatives wish they were, but are still largely a bunch of shits that spend more of their time engaging in petty vandalism and picking fights than doing anything productive.

    I'm...not seeing the problem? This is smart politics. For better or worse, there isn't much popular support for antifa anywhere and their escalating behavior (yes, they're very much a part of that as well) generally doesn't play well.

    Presidential politics is soundbites, not at-length nuance. He doesn't have time to go into a long and contextualized speech about the different types of violence and when it may be acceptable because no media will run that multi-minute clip. They'll find the sexiest 5-10 seconds and air that, whether it properly frames his response or not.

    They're not on the ballot, but neither are the Proud Boys. That doesn't mean that a candidate can't condemn either/both groups for being shit given that they're both popping up in current events.

  6. #11706
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    He instantly qualified it by saying he condemned the violence. Keep digging.
    Which is exactly the wrong thing to say. The right thing to say is "Antifa as an organization doesn't exist and everyone should be anti-fascist". Please stop defending Trump talking points about Antifa.

  7. #11707
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Which is exactly the wrong thing to say. The right thing to say is "Antifa as an organization doesn't exist and everyone should be anti-fascist". Please stop defending Trump talking points about Antifa.
    Ask yourself: Do you think that most Americans have this level of nuanced understanding of antifa? Do you think they'll instantly believe Biden if he says this? Do you think this wouldn't be weaponized against him in seconds?

  8. #11708
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Which is exactly the wrong thing to say. The right thing to say is "Antifa as an organization doesn't exist and everyone should be anti-fascist". Please stop defending Trump talking points about Antifa.
    I still believe Trump that Biden is a far leftist puppet... he is saying this to hide his true nature.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  9. #11709
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ask yourself: Do you think that most Americans have this level of nuanced understanding of antifa? Do you think they'll instantly believe Biden if he says this? Do you think this wouldn't be weaponized against him in seconds?
    If most Americans don't have this level of understanding and think anti-fascism is bad then we are absolutely fucked. Think about what you are saying.

  10. #11710
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    If most Americans don't have this level of understanding and think anti-fascism is bad then we are absolutely fucked. Think about what you are saying.
    Well, we have Trump who claims Biden is a hidden leftist, evil antifa... It might be because a lot of people are used to Trump. Look at us talking about Biden, when Trump is literally running on evil antifa.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  11. #11711
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Well, we have Trump who claims Biden is a hidden leftist, evil antifa... It might be because a lot of people are used to Trump. Look at us talking about Biden, when Trump is literally running on evil antifa.
    Maybe it would be a good idea to not help Trump's narrative that anti-fascism is bad by "condemning antifa", just saying.

  12. #11712
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    He instantly qualified it by saying he condemned the violence. Keep digging.
    I think it’s funny... Trump claims Biden is a hidden far leftist puppet and we have far leftist claiming he isn’t one.

    In the meantime, Trump’s DOJ just intervened in his rape trial...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #11713
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    but are still largely a bunch of shits that spend more of their time engaging in petty vandalism and picking fights than doing anything productive.
    who stood up to the nazis in charlottesville?
    who doxxes awd army members?
    who doxxes proud boy cops?
    who infiltrated and disrupted The Base?
    who fucked up cantwells life?
    who infiltrated and leaked iron marchs database?

    do fuck off

  14. #11714
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    If most Americans don't have this level of understanding and think anti-fascism is bad then we are absolutely fucked. Think about what you are saying.
    I have, and I still view most of them as latte-sipping 20somethings looking for an outlet from their largely boring upper middle class lives. I've had multiple encounters with antifa and antifa types during protests over the years, and those absolutely are a big part of my perception about those folk. Needless to say, they were generally not great, and did a lot to really make me lose any faith that most of the people dressing in black and claiming to be antifa don't have any historical understanding of the movement nor an appreciate for it in modern times.

    But a big part of that is also on antifa for being shit at getting their message out. They're absolutely at a disadvantage since they don't have the White House as a podium, but even before they became the boogeyman du jour for Republicans they weren't doing any better. I remember their pointless scuffle with Nazi's in Cali back in 2016 and largely thinking that the two groups deserved each other.

    And I'm like, a pretty lefty guy for the most part.

  15. #11715
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Flower Milk View Post
    Maybe it would be a good idea to not help Trump's narrative that anti-fascism is bad by "condemning antifa", just saying.
    It’s a good thing you can’t quote Biden saying that. I don’t see how denying Trump’s rhetoric that he is an extremist leftist is a bad tact.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  16. #11716
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    who stood up to the nazis in charlottesville?
    who doxxes awd army members?
    who doxxes proud boy cops?
    who infiltrated and disrupted The Base?
    who fucked up cantwells life?
    who infiltrated and leaked iron march?

    do fuck off
    Protesters, including antifa.
    I don't know what an awd army member is, so no idea.
    From what I've seen, it's not "just antfia" but a collection of online leftists.
    No clue what "The Base" is? Sounds familiar?
    Is Cantwell the crying Nazi? Didn't he like, do that all on his own?
    I don't know what the Iron March is.

    I mean, I'm a somewhat online guy that keeps up with the news pretty well, but I haven't heard of half this shit. How on earth are people who are even less online and pay even less attention to news know literally any of this?

  17. #11717
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    But a big part of that is also on antifa for being shit at getting their message out.
    Because they don’t have a messenger and that how it should be. Antifa is should not have political representation, because they would no longer be the antifa as we know it, but become a political party. Biden taking ownership, as he would by speaking out on their behalf as a nominee, would damage the movement.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    who stood up to the nazis in charlottesville?
    who doxxes awd army members?
    who doxxes proud boy cops?
    who infiltrated and disrupted The Base?
    who fucked up cantwells life?
    who infiltrated and leaked iron marchs database?

    do fuck off
    ... and who was doing it for decades before?

    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  18. #11718
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Protesters, including antifa.
    I don't know what an awd army member is, so no idea.
    From what I've seen, it's not "just antfia" but a collection of online leftists.
    No clue what "The Base" is? Sounds familiar?
    Is Cantwell the crying Nazi? Didn't he like, do that all on his own?
    I don't know what the Iron March is.

    I mean, I'm a somewhat online guy that keeps up with the news pretty well, but I haven't heard of half this shit. How on earth are people who are even less online and pay even less attention to news know literally any of this?
    protesters who were anti-fascist.
    atomwaffen division
    online leftists who are anti fascist
    murderous neo nazis
    lmao threw cantwell in because its funny
    nazi message board, which allowed most mass ID'ing.

    i mean the list of online and offline work anti-fascists too is immense, some bougie dipper using rightwing talking points
    latte-sipping 20somethings looking for an outlet from their largely boring upper middle class lives
    can utterly fuck off


    Just to point out if you are anti fascist you are antifa, fuck me its not hard is it, there isnt some magical organisation funded by soros you do know that right?

  19. #11719
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Because they don’t have a messenger and that how it should be. Antifa is should not have political representation, because they would no longer be the antifa as we know it, but become a political party. Biden taking ownership, as he would by speaking out on their behalf as a nominee, would damage the movement.
    Few things.

    1. They don't need to be a political party to have a "messenger". They don't need political representation for that in the slightest, and don't even need to form anything akin to a national structure. IIRC BLM's structure is quite similar, with the biggest departure being that they have a decentralized national structure where all the local chapters operate independently of it. They can get messaging out.

    2. If they have no messenger, are people supposed to like...intuit their message? How are they supposed to tell people that they aren't just out there hitting people with bike locks and assaulting trash cans?

    3. What does Biden have to do with "taking ownership"? He didn't do so in the clip, he just condemned the violence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    protesters who were anti-fascist.
    I'm willing to bet that most wouldn't characterize themselves as antifa.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    atomwaffen division
    Cool, I wish they'd stick with outing white supremacists. That's something we can all easily agree on.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    online leftists who are anti fascist
    See above. Just because goals may align doesn't mean they're the same group.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    murderous neo nazis
    lmao threw cantwell in because its funny
    nazi message board, which allowed most mass ID'ing.
    Most of these appear to be very online groups and events. None of this will matter when the election comes. Know what will matter? The votes of not-very-online people who largely only think antifa is out to assault trash cans.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    Just to point out if you are anti fascist you are antifa, fuck me its not hard is it, there isnt some magical organisation funded by soros you do know that right?
    I am anti fascist, but I am not antifa as we know them. I'm not just talking about the right wing strawman of them. Again, I've run into these folks multiple times in my years of protesting, and I've never had a positive encounter with them.

    Sorry that my very real life interactions with them left me with a distaste for the kinds of folks that suit up in black and show up with trash cans and baseball bats?

  20. #11720
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post

    Sorry that my very real life interactions with them left me with a distaste for the kinds of folks that suit up in black and show up with trash cans and baseball bats?
    you are talking about black bloc

    but I am not antifa as we know them
    this quotes mental wheres @JohnBrown1917

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •