1. #60601
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I still feel the devs need to acknowledge that some of the classes are in bad shape at the moment. Holding off on massive class changes for the next expansion is all nice and good, but the classes we ahve now do at least need to function well enough to make us comfortable playing them. Especially importantt for this one since there are so few lateral power systems to patch the gaps, making the base class good is more important than ever.
    Agreed. And I feel like they've done a decent job communicating why they're making some of the changes during this alpha/beta cycle but they really need to try and state their intentions, even if it's just like "hey, we know that X isn't in a great state right now but just sit tight and we'll have something for you"

  2. #60602
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I still feel the devs need to acknowledge that some of the classes are in bad shape at the moment. Holding off on massive class changes for the next expansion is all nice and good, but the classes we ahve now do at least need to function well enough to make us comfortable playing them. Especially importantt for this one since there are so few lateral power systems to patch the gaps, making the base class good is more important than ever.
    TBH i'd rather devs be like Ion in WoD. "We rather you not play Demonology." and such. At least they are brutally honest instead of dead silent.

  3. #60603
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I still feel the devs need to acknowledge that some of the classes are in bad shape at the moment. Holding off on massive class changes for the next expansion is all nice and good, but the classes we ahve now do at least need to function well enough to make us comfortable playing them. Especially importantt for this one since there are so few lateral power systems to patch the gaps, making the base class good is more important than ever.
    I wish people would explain when ppl say "Classes are crap." (Not you Sondrel I found you in the MM Hunter thread so I know what you personally want). Nobody ever gives ideas or details, just essentially "Fix it"
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  4. #60604
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wish people would explain when ppl say "Classes are crap." (Not you Sondrel I found you in the MM Hunter thread so I know what you personally want). Nobody ever gives ideas or details, just essentially "Fix it"
    Yeah, I agree. I gave some feedback on the PTR and went into paragraphs of detail, if everyone did that the world would be a better place.

  5. #60605
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wish people would explain when ppl say "Classes are crap." (Not you Sondrel I found you in the MM Hunter thread so I know what you personally want). Nobody ever gives ideas or details, just essentially "Fix it"
    I've been pretty vocal about what my bare minimum is and to be fair, it didn't happen but Blizz made it slightly more tolerable.

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  6. #60606
    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    TBH i'd rather devs be like Ion in WoD. "We rather you not play Demonology." and such. At least they are brutally honest instead of dead silent.
    Honestly, that is almost hte level I am at with MM. There isnt really any better way to understand the dev post that stated MM would have their focus gains nerfed becaused of a talent that they removed the same week.
    It is honestly maddening. I feel we should try to pressure the devs into making a class deep dive to explain what the devs want from the spec each patch at least, more for when a new expansion comes out, at least that would make it easier to give targeted feedback.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #60607
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    I've been saying this but don't expect class revamps this expansion. We'll see SOME changes that'll push classes in the direction they want them to go or where they need them, like Spriests received, but this is the leveling/future proofing expansion. Next one will see class revamps, more than likely.
    "Big class revamps are saved for next expansion" - yep, we thought exactly the same during BfA Beta. Problem is, unless they completely abandon SL after 9.2, they will have same timeframe like after Legion and BfA. And 10.0 will have new systems and progression systems to keep us accupied, cause they won't risk another WoD.situation.

    People are right that ~10 months or longer testing would improve quality of launch, but WoW is machine already running, extending drought beyond we have after Legion/BfA simply makes them lose money and player interest. And despite forums telling that it's worst expansion and end of the world, BfA even right know is not WoD when game was totally abandoned and basically frozen for 14 months.

    Blizzard MUST already plan and set realistic goals. SL Alpha/Beta is way better than BfA, but there still is ton of room to improve. And I hope that Ion comment was 100% cynical, cause he already know lot of resources for BfA patches will be put in creating system that will have to replace failed Azerite armor.

  8. #60608
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I wish people would explain when ppl say "Classes are crap." (Not you Sondrel I found you in the MM Hunter thread so I know what you personally want). Nobody ever gives ideas or details, just essentially "Fix it"
    Giving feedback is always something I feel the average person struggles with, mostly I imagine because writing a coherent and understandable text on why something does or doesnt work takes time when it is much easier to point at something and say you hate it.

    Warfronts in BfA were bad and all, but pointing fingers and saying it is a waste of time doesnt matter squat compared to giving feedback on how it could be better.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #60609
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    The prepatch obviously comes out on September 29, there is no doubt about it

  10. #60610
    Not to disregard ACTUAL problems with classes, but I feel like a lot of people are just bored with their class and want shiny new Legion revamps to keep them interested in the game. Hence the upset when specs like Spriest (and to a lesser extent Ele/Enh Shaman) get them.

    Hence the very low effort "it's SHIT" feedback.

  11. #60611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laubman View Post
    If ghouls pushed it over I would be okay with this. Just because it's so incredibly petty.
    It's the only banner to be pushed down, all others are standing straight up. It would seem too coincidental that some ghoul pushed it, it being singled out should have more meaning than that imo.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'm curious what will happen with their flags and banners in general. It kinda seems like they should get a new crest, since the current one is entirely themed around Sylvanas and her dark rangers.
    Forsaken will probably get a new banner over the course of the Shadowlands. This seems like a beginning towards that, and I recall them saying that over the course of Shadowlands (the expac, not necessarily the zones) the Night Elves and Forsaken will get their stories explored of post Teldrassil/Loss of Lordareon&Sylvanas.

  12. #60612
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It's the only banner to be pushed down, all others are standing straight up. It would seem too coincidental that some ghoul pushed it, it being singled out should have more meaning than that imo.
    It kind of hints that Forsaken are going to get their banner changed, which was something that was questioned throughout BFA (as they received a new banner but it's just MORE Sylvanas themed: she reduced the arrows from three to one because she was butthurt over her sisters). You can see it in the Warfront.

    It looks like they may be getting a new flag that doesn't have the mask on it. It remains to be seen if the Nelf flag will change as well.

  13. #60613
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Nelves don't need to change, just actually used. I didn't forsee the Forsaken changing their banner but I suppose they must without their favorite Dark Lady, perhaps they should keep the title for......Lilian Voss.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  14. #60614
    Anyone remember this PTR questline that never made it to the Live?

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=290617/...-scarlet-halls

    Apparently it's been updated in Shadowlands.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...estline/637399
    https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/ques...-rangers-pupil
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  15. #60615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gifdwarf View Post
    TBH i'd rather devs be like Ion in WoD. "We rather you not play Demonology." and such. At least they are brutally honest instead of dead silent.
    I wish they would be upfront about it as well. I noticed that for certain classes like Paladin they work quickly to ensure the class stays in an unsung middle-of-the-pack (for Prot/Ret anyway). Whereas Afflic Locks are still pretty OP given their Legendary that has yet to be nerfed.

  16. #60616
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    "Big class revamps are saved for next expansion" - yep, we thought exactly the same during BfA Beta. Problem is, unless they completely abandon SL after 9.2, they will have same timeframe like after Legion and BfA. And 10.0 will have new systems and progression systems to keep us accupied, cause they won't risk another WoD.situation.

    People are right that ~10 months or longer testing would improve quality of launch, but WoW is machine already running, extending drought beyond we have after Legion/BfA simply makes them lose money and player interest. And despite forums telling that it's worst expansion and end of the world, BfA even right know is not WoD when game was totally abandoned and basically frozen for 14 months.

    Blizzard MUST already plan and set realistic goals. SL Alpha/Beta is way better than BfA, but there still is ton of room to improve. And I hope that Ion comment was 100% cynical, cause he already know lot of resources for BfA patches will be put in creating system that will have to replace failed Azerite armor.
    Yeah but

    They also abandoned BfA halfway through beta. I think a lot of class changes were probably planned for BfA but were disregarded because the devs looked at what they had made and instead of trying to fix it, decided this is shit, we'll save it for after the next expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Not to disregard ACTUAL problems with classes, but I feel like a lot of people are just bored with their class and want shiny new Legion revamps to keep them interested in the game. Hence the upset when specs like Spriest (and to a lesser extent Ele/Enh Shaman) get them.

    Hence the very low effort "it's SHIT" feedback.
    This is valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It's the only banner to be pushed down, all others are standing straight up. It would seem too coincidental that some ghoul pushed it, it being singled out should have more meaning than that imo.
    Bolvar sending ghouls to the Argent Tournament grounds to knock over the Forsaken flag because he's salty he lost to Sylvanas.

  17. #60617
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Imo Forsaken deserve a leader that truly understands them. A leader that understands betrayal.

    They were betrayed by their beloved prince Arthas and now by Sylvanas.

    Both Voss and Calia understand that betrayal. Voss by her own father and Calia by her own brother.

    Sylvanas was an elf from upper society leading a bunch mostly undead humans. She had no right and she could never truly understand them past the whole undead situation.

  18. #60618
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    Bolvar sending ghouls to the Argent Tournament grounds to knock over the Forsaken flag because he's salty he lost to Sylvanas.
    That'll show her!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Imo Forsaken deserve a leader that truly understands them. A leader that understands betrayal.

    They were betrayed by their beloved prince Arthas and now by Sylvanas.

    Both Voss and Calia understand that betrayal. Voss by her own father and Calia by her own brother.

    Sylvanas was an elf from upper society leading a bunch mostly undead humans. She had no right and she could never truly understand them past the whole undead situation.
    My vote would be for Voss. Calia has too many ties on Alliance side and that conversation with Valeera just reinforces Calia as being a more neutral player in all of this.

    Also because as I said before if Horde/Alliance go back to fighting then it would come off as utterly stupid that Calia wages battles/wars against Anduin and Jaina who she continues to have very close ties to, almost familial unlike Baine/Anduin friendship.

  19. #60619
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Anyone remember this PTR questline that never made it to the Live?

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=290617/...-scarlet-halls

    Apparently it's been updated in Shadowlands.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...estline/637399
    https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/ques...-rangers-pupil
    This seems like patch bait. I can see it unlocking something, although it is strange that it's a neutral quest, so maybe it's going to unlock red eyes on both Alliance and Horde (Nelf and Belf respectively).

    This may also be a way of foreshadowing what's going on with the Scarlets during Shadowlands (leading up to 10.0).

  20. #60620
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner_recall View Post
    Yeah but

    They also abandoned BfA halfway through beta. I think a lot of class changes were probably planned for BfA but were disregarded because the devs looked at what they had made and instead of trying to fix it, decided this is shit, we'll save it for after the next expansion..
    If anything, BfA Alpha/Beta was abandoned in first half, they focused only on early game and ignore people asking for major class changes and implementing Azerite armor to the game. On late Beta they simply run out of time, it doesn't mean that last few months were wasted. Fury Warrior was revamped almost last minute and it's still fantastic.

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