Shadowlands has major problems up ahead

[Mafic]

Classes currently in BFA are built around builders and spenders ala Rogues so yes there is more homogenization now than before. Also essences being powerful for any spec or class is the ultimate homogenization or even twilight devastation melting faces while people go purple which is more homogenization.

[kaminaris]

Classes currently in BFA are built around builders and spenders ala Rogues so yes there is more homogenization now than before. Also essences being powerful for any spec or class is the ultimate homogenization or even twilight devastation melting faces while people go purple which is more homogenization.

Nope, that is not what homogenization means.

Read this

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52632061
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52632059
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post52631991

There is really nothing more to add, you are simply wrong.

What homogenization is called in WoW is the state where every single class has the same answer to everything.
One single target stun, one interrupt, one aoe stun, a blink, a mov speed buff, a this and that utility spell etc.

In MoP every single class had everything (to dumb it down) and that's what is called being homogenized as a class.

Resources/ builder spender/ etc are completely irrelevant.

[Velerios]

The "major" problems seem to affect mostly the top 0.1% of raiders and the pseudo-elitist idiots that think they are like the 0.1% of raiders.

Thus.. not really Major problems at all, as the game would likely be far better off without them.

I definitively couldn't say it better. This is an issue created by streamer for streamer problems, but not for the general playerbase. It affects the upper 0.1%, not everyone: play what ability you find at most fun, and then go on. Numbers-Tuning is easer than anything else, and if one ability is particullary OP, then the nerf-bat is already ready for it.

[Thenatural]

Hey look it's that dude who has 10,000 posts here and posts hourly on the forums about how horrible WoW is and makes sure to end each regurgitation of buzz-phrases with a thinking emoji.

[Mafic]

I don't think you understand what homogenization even means. You could say that it started at the beginning of WoW if you want to be technical but in actually it started in Legion with the class/spec revamps. The point is that they are very similar in nature and design now, far more so then they ever were. Easy examples of how it become so prevalent now are Death Knight's and Warrior's (resource builders/dumps) as well as Rogue's/Monk's (CP building and then spending). Resource builders and spenders is all you need to sum up the homogenization process which in different expansion's those iteration's varied by said resource regeneration, which in turn is why it wasn't as prevalent as it is today. In the past 2 expansion's (both Legion and BFA) that design philosophy has been more prevalent due to how they intended the designs to become.

"It you even remotely think that we have homogenization now then Im done, this is just delusion."

^ This conclusion in itself is a delusion my man. It's pretty widely known that homogenization became more prevalent since Legion....

Good post.

Let me add that the homogenization inherent in rental systems is very apparent now and is wide spread.

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Man, this thread is awesome. I really love the narrative in here on the first page.
First, people have been pushing the "lol, only the top 1% cares, lololol"
And then here we have a casual player who shares his opinion about the game and then people go "lol, how dares a causal player give an opinion about the game, go back and play with your toycars!"

I think the concerns are valid. We used to have hiccups with scaling, like I was able to farm Horridon and Ji-kun in WoD on my army of hunter alts, but then the prepatch happened and then it was impossible on certain alts. Surely enough in Legion with the new level cap I was able to solo again (after leveling them up, yuck) but yeah, didn't feel good.
My big concern right now is the number of loot drops in legacy setting. hopefully they will fix it, it's just so weird how litte time till prepatch and the release we have.

Well different view points are important which is why shattering the idea that the top 1% only care about functioning covenants I find imperative. Plus, there are other big problems than covenants exclusively.

Like the AoE cap which is a massive nerf to all content whether end game or old raids. Doing no damage to a mob you are standing right next to is the most anti RPG thing I have seen in a long time and frankly that is lazy design. Most games solve this with diminishing damage if there are too many mobs but never a hard cap. A hard cap is communicating that they don't know how to balance the game properly to preserve RPG principles.

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Why would you care about what your abilities do? You are a casual.
His logic, not mine.

Hahah I know right? What wouldn't a casual player care about being able to solo? What do people think casual players do? Just watch the walls on the garrison paint slowly dry or something?

I am not even talking about min max I flat out can not use Sepsis in a solo situation because it resets the HP on a mob once the forced vanish happens. This is by design and the rules of the game so players don't exploit this to their advantage.

Echoing Reprimand from the Kyrian is basically trying to line up RNG combo points for max damage...I am not interested in such min max adventures and frankly an addon will be needed to fully utilize Rogue Kyrian. That to me seems hardcore to need to have an addon just to manage Kyrian covenant Rogue ability.

Then it comes down to Venthyr versus Necro. Venthy slaughter replaces poisons but it isn't that good or good enough to replace poisons. Replacing it every 2 minutes is cumbersome for a casual player like me while having poisons applied for one hour is much easier for me.

So yeah Bone Spike from Necro it is.

[Lei]

Like the AoE cap which is a massive nerf to all content whether end game or old raids. Doing no damage to a mob you are standing right next to is the most anti RPG thing I have seen in a long time and frankly that is lazy design. Most games solve this with diminishing damage if there are too many mobs but never a hard cap. A hard cap is communicating that they don't know how to balance the game properly to preserve RPG principles.

I agree with this. Honestly I was shocked that I saw little to no resistance to this.

[Mafic]

I agree with this. Honestly I was shocked that I saw little to no resistance to this.

Most of the resistances that I saw toward the hard AoE cap came from WoW reddit of all places. WoW reddit usually is focused on posting fan art, transmog discussiong, friendly discussing about cosplay design and uploads, etc. The fact that there was a serious discussion about it with WoW reddit shows that it is going to impact all players whether hardcore or casual players. Like the GCD, hardcore and casual players quickly noticed the negative impact it had on class feel in Battle for Abilities.

It is a direct nerf to the following:

M+ and other dungeons
Questing
Raids and old legacy raids
outdoor farming of mats and other materials
Raw gold/hr

Coupled with the massive gold nerfs to gear being downscaled and downvalued that is not good. Then, you have gold sinks like garrisons that have not been adjusted for the new squished gold generation as you level because you gain a lot less gold leveling now which is very true due to the increased leveling speed and devalued leveling gear.

I fear that new players will walk into a buzzsaw of being forced to level in BFA zones while not having enough gold to function for the end game activities of the new expansion. Right now the gold repair costs for gear have not been adjusted as far as I know for gear being downscaled and squished. Which means the gold repair costs and other gold sinks are not proportional to the new gold generation gained from leveling 1-50. I am not going to speculate if this is by design or not or if BlizZard is trying to force more token sales. But I will say with prepatch near it is very concerning to see that the massive gold sinks remain while gold generation greatly diminished across the board.

Right now I would put the hard AoE cap and massive gold nerfs in older content neck to neck as really, really bad changes to the base WoW game. Indeed, they are being overshadowed by covenant discussions but most players will notice it on patch day within two weeks which I think is probably when prepatch comes out. Prepatch will just reinforces that there are bigger problems than just covenants with the upcoming expansion. Just have to be patient and let others try it out for themselves and judge accordingly. I personally tried the PTR and while the unpruning of some classes is decent it hasn't gone far enough. And frainkly it is a hard sell to make unpruning a defining feature of the expansion along with covenants. What will probably make or break people's opinions on shadowlands is how the revamped leveling is handled and chromie time.

But right now chromie time has a lot of issues and the revamped leveling feels more punishing than rewarding. This is because mount equipment is locked away too late in the leveling process while flying is unlocked at level 30 which feels bad for expansions like WotLK, Cata, etc if you use chromie time. But if you don't use chromie time then it really feels punishing not having flying available for the older expansions at all for the leveling experience.

[Nachtigal]

You speak for yourself only. I know that is shocking to hear.

Can’t say I’ve ever been shocked by an obvious fact. I speak for myself, and without intent, those who would agree. And then there are those who would disagree, such as yourself. From there, there will be people who will read it, disagree and move on. And then there are those who will read it, disagree and then get angry and tell me about it. This is the natural state of things, are you shocked yet?

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I'm glad you speak for everyone. Seems incorrect though if someone did disagree.

As for my response to OP, the only thing that really bothers me is the borrowed power again. I played beta, the game seemed OK in my opinion, I didn't get far because I didn't want to spoil it for myself. I don't think it could get worse than the massive falling out of BFA with content that felt uncompleted by devs.

I never claimed to speak for anybody other than myself. However that individual was compelled to fix it for themselves, not for me, because they couldn’t stand by and let it happen.

[Tylanthia]

Right now I would put the hard AoE cap and massive gold nerfs in older content neck to neck as really, really bad changes to the base WoW game.

I am a bit worried that we won't have anything meaningful to do with these changes. Like what does the average casual wow player actually do in game? Farm old content for transmog/mounts/gold or do WQ/dalies? Both of these activities seem like they were made significantly less rewarding and more tedious in Shadowlands. Even stuff like disabling older expansion potions--which were useful for farming older raids--is a change that is annoying to casuals. Add in that secondary systems like fishing and archaeology seem either neglected or just straight up retired---Shadowlands looks like another raid or die expansion (but unlike WoD, no garrison to occupy your time).

[Sunslayer]

Can’t say I’ve ever been shocked by an obvious fact. I speak for myself, and without intent, those who would agree. And then there are those who would disagree, such as yourself. From there, there will be people who will read it, disagree and move on. And then there are those who will read it, disagree and then get angry and tell me about it. This is the natural state of things, are you shocked yet?

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I never claimed to speak for anybody other than myself. However that individual was compelled to fix it for themselves, not for me, because they couldn’t stand by and let it happen.

Just an FYI. When "you" say "no one cares" it is actually a perfect example of speaking for others. Not sure how this isn't obvious.

[Wewlad]

Nice analysis. Nobody cares about your opinion.

Oh hey nobody has ever done the whole, "Nobody cares about your opinion," bit ever in history. You truly are an original spirit. I tip my fedora to you, good sir!

[Mafic]

I am a bit worried that we won't have anything meaningful to do with these changes. Like what does the average casual wow player actually do in game? Farm old content for transmog/mounts/gold or do WQ/dalies? Both of these activities seem like they were made significantly less rewarding and more tedious in Shadowlands. Even stuff like disabling older expansion potions--which were useful for farming older raids--is a change that is annoying to casuals. Add in that secondary systems like fishing and archaeology seem either neglected or just straight up retired---Shadowlands looks like another raid or die expansion (but unlike WoD, no garrison to occupy your time).

Well based on the nerfs of older content and accelerated leveling it seems to me that they want as many people at end game as possible to boost participation rates. But as long as borrowed power exists a lot of players will be content to just do the bare minimum or just straight up have fun doing older content.

BlizZard sees a huge pool of players not playing level cap content anymore which is why the polls when up on the official forums regarding legendary cloak and visions.

My hypothesis is that we have reached a saturation point with borrowed power concepts. Borrowed power that has traditionally worked has been more spec or class focused. But even then the class focused borrowed power has to bring longer lasting value to the game. Tier set bonuses may be tweaked or rewworked as a new expansion comes out but they are not often outright deleted. That is an example of class or spec focused borrowed power but it still is a thread that binds the old expansions which offers some replay value. But when class focused or any borrowed power (eg corruptions) are outright deleted it shrinks the game, reduces replay value and also robs the game of having something to build on. Building onto the framework is the whole point of a MMORPG. But when a MMORPG like WoW is treated like diablo with stand alone expansions and self contained, neatly defined seasons it starts to unravel. It unravels because at that point why does WoW still have a subscription model while diablo does not? The point of having a subscription model is to keep adding content every quarter and building the story and character growth. When borrowed power is deleted or even entire story and quest content like we have seen with BFA it undermines the entire subscription model. Playing old content in a MMORPG is very valid because it is stepping stone to something greater. And when level scaling and deletion of content happens you are not building towards something and the story starts to fall apart to reflect the mechanical break downs as well.

For casual players transmog hunting, old raid gold farming, pet battles, etc...this is going to be a drastic change for the new expansion. I do not see it being a smooth ride and frankly I think BlizZard over estimates how many people want to do end game content.

With that said for the people that do want to do endgame content BlizZard punishing those players because they want to play a different spec or build doesn't make sense to me.

In MMORPGs playing different roles and builds is the whole point of it all because figuring out different combos or play styles is the whole appeal. Playing a single loadout is something you see in MOBAs or first person shooters. But MMORPGs add a bit more depth and nuance for players to have the player agency to change it up by having DPS build or a tank build. Don't see how punishing people that like to tank for their guild but also play DPS for fun on weekends will work out for shadowlands.

[Jastall]

The homogenization argument in regards to MoP is fair and all, but i think it ignores that Classes were overall simply more enjoyable to play.

The concept of strengths and weaknesses is good in theory, but far more difficult to execute because you constantly have to jump through hoops to solve certain issues on a given spec, rather than simply giving them the solution.
And it often results in rather dumbass decisions.

I still remember why Shaman lost Gust of Wind in BfA: "Too much like Blink".
And then we got 8.0 Shaman where Elemental and Resto in particular were terrible, among other things due to their lack of mobility, but hey, classes were "less homogenized"!

The MoP approach was in my opinion the pragmatic one, they couldn't execute the philosophy of strength and weaknesses in a solid fashion, so they opted for individual enjoyment over a general design philosophy that wasn't achieveable.

True to a degree, but I think it becomes silly when, say, Hunters of all classes can provide any buff, Disc priests make other healers obsolete or tanks out-DPS and out-heal everyone because of the dumbass mechanic that was Vengeance. There must be method to the madness and IMO Mists went a bit too far; the pruning also went too far, but that's Blizzard pendulum design for ya.

Mists had good class design, and for some classes it was the best (especially Warlocks because they were a dev's pet project), but I don't agree with the assessment that it was an untouchable pinnacle. Fury, Unholy, Hpally are some examples of classes that were more fun in later xpacks as far as I'm concerned.

[kaminaris]

True to a degree, but I think it becomes silly when, say, Hunters of all classes can provide any buff, Disc priests make other healers obsolete or tanks out-DPS and out-heal everyone because of the dumbass mechanic that was Vengeance. There must be method to the madness and IMO Mists went a bit too far; the pruning also went too far, but that's Blizzard pendulum design for ya.

Mists had good class design, and for some classes it was the best (especially Warlocks because they were a dev's pet project), but I don't agree with the assessment that it was an untouchable pinnacle. Fury, Unholy, Hpally are some examples of classes that were more fun in later xpacks as far as I'm concerned.

How in the hell MoP had good class design when you list garbage things just before?

It wasn't enjoyable if you werent one of these X god classes.

[Tylanthia]

BlizZard sees a huge pool of players not playing level cap content anymore which is why the polls when up on the official forums regarding legendary cloak and visions.

I kept most of my alts at legion level because I wasn't done with legion stuff. Mostly profession, reputation, and class order stuff. It also helps that I enjoyed the legion WQs more than BFA's. Not sure why there is the push to always focus on the latest patch content. Like most of the content in FF14 is evergreen and it's fine. Due to level sync, you can take as long as you want and play through the past stories and move on when you're ready. I really don't like how, in WoW, even the prior raid is instantly rendered obsolete when the next patch hits. Kind of defeats the point of a journey if you're instantly caught up. I don't think the fact that many players never hit max level up through Wrath was even considered an issue until Cata.

My hypothesis is that we have reached a saturation point with borrowed power concepts. Borrowed power that has traditionally worked has been more spec or class focused. But even then the class focused borrowed power has to bring longer lasting value to the game.

I'm OK with borrowed power but why remove it when the next expansion launches? Like the artifact weapon progression could still be in the game--but only relevant for people that play legion. Never felt right to me when they remove stuff like the MOP cloak chain either. Just use the Herald of the Titans model--it can be a fun activity.

For casual players transmog hunting, old raid gold farming, pet battles, etc...this is going to be a drastic change for the new expansion. I do not see it being a smooth ride and frankly I think BlizZard over estimates how many people want to do end game content.

I raid heroic with my guild and run the occasional M plus with friends/guildies but even then most of my time is spent... doing WQs, running old raids, trying to collect stuff, etc. I think there are a lot of WoW players who are kind of in the middle. Heck I'm still working on the bigger bag achievement from Timeless isle almost a decade later.

[Jastall]

How in the hell MoP had good class design when you list garbage things just before?

It wasn't enjoyable if you werent one of these X god classes.

Most specs were fun to play when in hand. Arms was at its pinnacle, so were Locks and Shamans in my experience. Lots of Rogue players say so as well, but I never played the class with any kind of seriousness; that said, I also remember a good number of PvP players disliking the stupid amount of CC everyone and everything had, as well as the bad balance; again I wouldn't know because fuck PvP. By WoW standards I'd say that is good, while in my experience WoD was the nadir where only Demo Lock was really fun and they nerfed the living shit out of it after BRF anyway. Some say Legion had poor class design, but I enjoyed the hell out of all 3 Warrior specs, Shamans, DKs, and DHs.

Really my one big black mark against Mists is Vengeance. It mostly got out of hand later in SoO, granted, but it was still completely absurd to see Prot Warriors destroy every DPS in many fights by intentionally taking more damage. I love Mists overall but dislike the revisionist history that makes it some sort of gold standard for class design; it had about as many issues as any expansion, but higher highs than most perhaps helped its reputation, and some people hate pruning by principle anyway.

[kaminaris]

Most specs were fun to play when in hand. Arms was at its pinnacle, so were Locks and Shamans in my experience. Lots of Rogue players say so as well, but I never played the class with any kind of seriousness; that said, I also remember a good number of PvP players disliking the stupid amount of CC everyone and everything had, as well as the bad balance; again I wouldn't know because fuck PvP. By WoW standards I'd say that is good, while in my experience WoD was the nadir where only Demo Lock was really fun and they nerfed the living shit out of it after BRF anyway. Some say Legion had poor class design, but I enjoyed the hell out of all 3 Warrior specs, Shamans, DKs, and DHs.

Really my one big black mark against Mists is Vengeance. It mostly got out of hand later in SoO, granted, but it was still completely absurd to see Prot Warriors destroy every DPS in many fights by intentionally taking more damage. I love Mists overall but dislike the revisionist history that makes it some sort of gold standard for class design; it had about as many issues as any expansion, but higher highs than most perhaps helped its reputation, and some people hate pruning by principle anyway.

well from my exp most specs played awful. Warlock was kinda good, shaman was fluid, hunter was fluid, DK blood was good warrior protection was nice (well due to button spam thanks to vengeance) and disci priest.

Rest?
Warrior arms/fury was like this meme: "Lol I unno I'm just playin tennis", smashing random buttons when they lit. Enh was the same, but felt clunkier.
Druid was goddamn awful all specs, good lord bala/feral was rock bottom, tank was mediocre and healer was just ok.
Rogue - mop was time when i decided i will never play rogue even remotely serious.
Pala was meh, cpt america was good but again due to veng.
Mage frost was ok, acane was snoozefest, fire was WTF. overall mediocre
Monk was garbo


I kinda played all specs, had to. Still do.

If I have to pick one exp that has best class design that would be BfA followed by legion, then chasm, then MoP then WoD.

And for reference I consider current demonology best spec ever created by a fucking lightyears away.

[Nite92]

if as a super casual player you feel "forced" to do things in a video game, re-evaluate.

Why? Why does it matter if a casual or a hardcore player wants something? Just because someone plays only a little, he can still find it fun to be the best HE can be. No matter how far away from optimal play he is.

[ClassicPeon]

Why? Why does it matter if a casual or a hardcore player wants something? Just because someone plays only a little, he can still find it fun to be the best HE can be. No matter how far away from optimal play he is.

If you are super casual and you play tekken, you shouldnt be forced to try and fight your opponent.

Thats what he is saying i think. I'm not sure it makes any sense whatsoever.

[Mafic]

I kept most of my alts at legion level because I wasn't done with legion stuff. Mostly profession, reputation, and class order stuff. It also helps that I enjoyed the legion WQs more than BFA's. Not sure why there is the push to always focus on the latest patch content. Like most of the content in FF14 is evergreen and it's fine. Due to level sync, you can take as long as you want and play through the past stories and move on when you're ready. I really don't like how, in WoW, even the prior raid is instantly rendered obsolete when the next patch hits. Kind of defeats the point of a journey if you're instantly caught up. I don't think the fact that many players never hit max level up through Wrath was even considered an issue until Cata.



I'm OK with borrowed power but why remove it when the next expansion launches? Like the artifact weapon progression could still be in the game--but only relevant for people that play legion. Never felt right to me when they remove stuff like the MOP cloak chain either. Just use the Herald of the Titans model--it can be a fun activity.



I raid heroic with my guild and run the occasional M plus with friends/guildies but even then most of my time is spent... doing WQs, running old raids, trying to collect stuff, etc. I think there are a lot of WoW players who are kind of in the middle. Heck I'm still working on the bigger bag achievement from Timeless isle almost a decade later.

Well WoW used to have more evergreen content but now the push for seasons and esports undermines the MMORPG principles of it all. Yes the hard resets with every seasons regarding raids and gear has become so bad that even BlizZard is dialing it back a bit for the new expansion. Making gear you earned a few months ago obsolete doesn't make sense. If a new patch drops and you start to replace a few pieces of gear because they are clear upgrades is more in line with how old WoW used to be.

Historically in most MMORPGs a lot of players like playing lower level content and not worrying about max level. Whether we are talking about WoW, City of Heroes, Lineage 2, Aion, etc it doesn't really matter. Max level content is something that doesn't appeal to everyone and that explains the existence of LFR. LFR is the way WoW team can justify to bean counters to keep investing money in raid content overall.

They believe the fear of mission out will drive sales but there is no evidence of this free 2 play tactic working in WoW. Plus, WoW has several big barriers to overcome in that you have to buy 2 play the expansion when it is "relevant" and pay a sub fee. For all the talk about WoW team not caring about subs the accelerated release of the expansion with late Oct says otherwise.

Well if we look at it logically if a lot of players stick to old content and then the players that dabble in end game but still do old content that is the majority of playres right there. The players that focus exclusively on end game content are a much smaller pool of players. So, the changes proposed with prepatch alone will be a huge devastating blow to players that enjoy older content. I think it will have the opposite effect and will repulse more players to avoid end game. Plus, with the layers of systems bloat the new expansion is launching front loaded it truly will push people to older WoW content overall but that is my prediction.

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True to a degree, but I think it becomes silly when, say, Hunters of all classes can provide any buff, Disc priests make other healers obsolete or tanks out-DPS and out-heal everyone because of the dumbass mechanic that was Vengeance. There must be method to the madness and IMO Mists went a bit too far; the pruning also went too far, but that's Blizzard pendulum design for ya.

Mists had good class design, and for some classes it was the best (especially Warlocks because they were a dev's pet project), but I don't agree with the assessment that it was an untouchable pinnacle. Fury, Unholy, Hpally are some examples of classes that were more fun in later xpacks as far as I'm concerned.

WotLk and WoD had flaws with class design as well, but overall like MoP they had solid foundations.

I can't say the same for Battle for Abilities which is why the great unpruning is happening in a few weeks. Rogues were at their best in design from WotLK, Cata and MoP. I would throw in as well WoD.

BFA was a huge step back for the Rogue community which is why it was a failure for Sub and Outlaw Rogues. But the mistakes of BFA Rogue design are being undone with prepatch for the most part. But a Sub Rogue missing Gouge still feels wrong and poisons should have never left Sub and Outlaw.

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Player power being reduced because of the loss of Corruptions was destined to happen. It's a consequence of that borrowed power system going away. Say what you will about borrowed power in general, but a reduction in player power because of those systems going away is exactly as intended and will remain to be the case until Shadowlands.

Old raids being harder than they should be is both a pure numbers issue and a legacy content issue. As in, a double-whammy on low-priority tasks, compared to, you know, working on classes and the upcoming novel content. I'm not surprised Blizzard isn't talking much about it. There are much more important things that need to be talked about.

If you're worried about whether or not Blizzard is going to be going back on their legacy loot rules come Shadowlands, let me help you out there. The answer is "Obviously not." If legacy loot isn't enabled on the PTR -- Was it ever? I dunno. -- then there's either no reason for it to be enabled on PTR (understandable), or there's a bug somewhere that should reasonably be fixed between now and when prepatch goes live. There is zero reason to think that Blizzard is going to affect your raw-gold gain and transmog hunts intentionally when it comes to legacy content. You can shelve your "devaluation of gear and raw gold" post that you were planning for "another day". It likely would've been meaningless drivel that gets either immediately invalidated or quickly fixed come the live release.

The AOE cap as it pertains to legacy content is something I'm rather interested in, though. Personally, for my weekly rotation of legacy content, which is either: all of WoD raids + SoO across four characters, or simply all of HFC across nine characters, it... doesn't matter. At all. Mob density is usually not big enough for me to care, and I can count on one hand the times that it ever is. So for me, I can probably safely say that I don't give a shit. But I don't know other people's rotations or what they do in other instances that I don't bother with, or what those other instances are even like, mob density wise. So that could be a problem for some? I honestly don't really know that much. But me personally? Who cares.

Covenants are definitely not as rigid as people make them out to be. You can change your covenant, and from what I understand, you can jump from one covenant to another pretty easily. It's jumping back to the covenant you've abandoned that takes a little work. I don't know much about this. How much work actually is it? I heard something about it being a couple quests or something? Is there a redemption process implemented right now for getting back into a covenant you betrayed? But that's beside the point, mostly. The point is, if you want to change your covenant, fucking do it. Even they implemented an actual rigid punishment system on covenant changing, like not being able to switch back to one you've abandoned until the weekly reset or something like that, then ration your time better. Do all the content that you're best at in one covenant until you're satisfied and then switch to another to do content that's better with that covenant. Obviously, that's a little bit more stifling, but the wiggle room is there. You aren't locked into a covenant when you choose one. But at the same time, they're not a talent row that you can just spin around willy-nilly as it suits you.

As much shit as people give to borrowed power and how it stifles the growth of classes, there has to be a point where classes just eternally growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and growing MUST stop. I would personally rather have classes that are made relatively simple with room to grow as the expansion progresses through the systems that those classes introduces, and then go back and do it again when the next expansion hits than to either a) continue to pile new shit onto my action bars every expansions or bake abilities/talents into other abilities/talents to make room for the new shit, or b) get no growth over the life of the game. Between A and B, B is probably preferable. But the concept of borrowed power and looking at my classes through an expansion-by-expansion lens, rather than this huge mass of mess across all expansions? I get why people dislike it, but personally, I'm fine with it. Azerite was a shitty iteration of borrowed power. Artifacts were better, if you ask me. Soulbinds and Conduits? They look promising, but it remains to be seen. I want to get my hands on them and find out for myself.

Zone design? I'm not very opinionated on it. If it sucks to navigate, it sucks to navigate, and that would be unfortunate, because the zones themselves are just gorgeous. But just because they haven't shared their Pathfinder info yet doesn't mean they have no plans. I would like to hope that flying will eventually be a thing in Shadowlands. There's no reason for it not to be, and there's no apparent reason why they wouldn't be able to. Disconnected zones? ...So what? Just let us fly within those zones. My issue, potentially, with disconnected zones is the feeling of tinyness, potentially. I know they're not tiny zones, but I don't know. We're basically getting five Nazjatars bridged by portals, instead of whole navigable landmasses. Maybe it won't feel so bad once I get into it, but just the thought is a tad worrying. But flying? Not really. Being totally on-foot in the Maw could get annoying, though.

I don't know. Shadowlands has its issues, sure. Some things that, conceptually could be better, and some things that have been changed already by Blizzard, an indication of, you know, them listening to feedback.

I'm never jumping on the doom-and-gloom train. Mostly because most of the passengers on said train are fucking annoying and uncompelling. Partially because I'm just generally a glass-half-full kind of player who would rather wait and see for myself if Blizzard fucks it up than give the opinions of others rent space in my head. In tiny part because since I pay for this game in gold, I have absolutely nothing to lose and will more than likely just have a good bit of fun with this game whether or not I generally enjoy what the expansion has to offer or not.

I am okay with player power being reduced because corrouptions is borrowed power. I am not okay with BlizZard going on the PTR and boosting everyones damage via scaling for old legacy content like what happened recently.

If you need scaling tech to cover up that classes and levels don't mean anything that is a big problem for a MMORPG like WoW. Power in WoW used to come from gear itself, levels and classes. Taking away power from classes and the whole point of having a leveling system is why scaling is anti MMORPG in design principles.

Moving onto your next point.

So far there are many issues with the PTR that have yet to be addressed and we are looking at prepatch releasing soon. Biggest one being the changes to mount equipment. I want to believe that legacy loot is just disabled on the PTR but I have seen many "stealth" nerfs making to the live client many times before. A good example is the removal of portals.

AoE cap is pretty big deal and in fact will be a factor when it comes to which covenant people choose. Unless a covenant offers amazing single target potential the AoE cap is going to drive a lot of game play decisions in WoW once it is in place. I can't stress enough how game changing the hard AoE cap will be and it will go down like a lead balloon like the GCD changes of BFA. The GCD changes of BFA are still so bad they are still trying to undo the damage it has done with classes in this new beta when it was forced into the previous beta with little thought regarding class design. The new AoE hard cap like the GCD have been forced in without thinking about class design, the future content and older legacy content. Just because they have a vision for the game doesn't mean they can give up their responsibility to fix the game once they break it.

As the old WoW design showed there is a way to make borrowed power and character growth work which is pruning every other expansion not pruning hard in less than two years time. What is WoW building towards for character growth? Character growth has stopped with WoD and the story hasn't really progressed that much either. A MMORPG where the story doesn't really progress and character growth doesn't progress starts to stop being called a MMORPG.. What is this monstrosity they are trying to twist WoW into?

Zone design is very, very bad for the upcoming expansion. Not only is the terrain seen content by the current devs but the lack of flight paths in bastion alone is a big red flag. And bastion is the intro experience for all players into the new expansion. If that is the first impression for many players it will leave a great bitterness toward the entire expansion. I am calling this right now because it is clear as day that without any flight whistles this may be a very, very worse experience than most people realize. And yes the zones are tiny but I guess people will have to try it out themselves!

I don't need people to jump on the doom and gloom train. Like Battle for Abilities it took one month in for people to realize what that expansion was about. This expansion? Much sooner than one month because at level cap the content is basically M+, raiding or PVP. For players that enjoy those aspects that is a good thing that less chores are required in the new expansion. But for players that liked questing they are going to be sorely disappointed because it is going to resemble a lot more of WoD end game design. Not necessarily raid or die but pretty close to it.