Are you tired of borrowed power?

[xZerocidex]

Yup, the concept was cool in Legion because it added to spec identity. Now every xpac it it's watered down.

[munkeyinorbit]

Who's saying there has to be a new ability each expansion? What happened to the game relying on storytelling and fun rather than some borrowed power that'd just be gone next expansion?

Wow has always had borrowed powers all the way from early classic to now. If the game wasn't relying on story telling and fun now, it wasn't relying on it in classic. Tier sets would like to say hi btw.

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No, and forgive me but I don't know enough about feral to speak on how the spec evolved.
Hypothetically, let's say they added a passive that gave 2combo points for shred when used from stealth or behind. 2 expansions on, they are looking to add a new passive, and the hypothetical passive is pretty popular, so they bake in the abilities of the hypothetical passive. Now Mangle, even though it's named the same, has learned some new tricks, its not the same old ability. And its talent row now has opened up more possibilities for the spec. Thats why adding and pruning is good.

With borrowed power, everything is stripped away, your character returns to a point before they started adventuring for that expansion, and it feels bad. Ultimately the world doesn't feel more dangerous, your character feels weaker.

It's great that new players feel confident enough to actually post but let someone who has actually played from vanilla to now tell you a secret. Every time you level you are the weakest you will ever be when you ding max level. This is a fact. Crying about it as if it was a recent thing is just moronic.

[Culex]

Yes, which is why I don't participate in that aspect of the game, one of the main reasons I dont raid anymore.

[Harbour]

Yes i did.

The most infuriating thing to me is that they removed all meat from classes and specs and put it into the game in a form of carrot to go for, presenting it as the part of content. Very time consuming part of content.

They made gameplay for many classes and specs bad and unsatisfying to force people boost /played metrics via grinding shit to finalize spec spell toolkit, instead of using other instruments, like bigger amount of good raids, dungeons, quests, stuff like Mage Tower and other challenges for cosmetics.

Its also infuriating that some players got used to that fundamentally wrong attitude towards class butchering and claim its fine to grind to make class "not shitty".

Classes and specs should feel absolutely completed and finished when you ding max level and have all powers except Tier Set bonuses and trinket effects. Then you just go to do what you always did prior Legion - grind dungeons, raids, do quests for rep and more gear and so on. That is how it was for a decade before Legion launch.

Dungeon, raids, quest to get gear, not the cyclic bunch of quests to add missing bunch of passives and active spells that will make your class finally good. In ten weeks or more.

[spalernTJ]

I feel like borrowed powers have potential, but I don't think Blizzard is handling the concept particularly well. Gameplay is one of the most important aspects of a game, you can add the most fun and engaging content in the world, but bad gameplay will always take away from it, a lot.

Abilities, stats and gameplay elements shouldn't be a grind, it should be part of your natural progression, such as leveling. When you play the game, you should have access to all the tools you need to succeed with your class, while the rest (E.G gear) which makes your tools stronger should be the grind. Legendar cloak is a neccessary tool, and obtaining it I think was done okay. It's one quest line, no "grind" you've got it, however I dislike the excessive amount of grind you had to do to rank it up. For a DPS, corruption is pretty much a necessary tool at this point, given how much power that system imposes on the players.

Essences is also a necessary tool, which was handled extremely poorly. Same with azerite traits, seeing as some classes and specs barely functions without the right ones, such as Giimmer for holy paladins. I wanna see borrowed powers as more than just excessive grinds forced onto players throughout an expansion. Make new abilities, passives, talents that have similar, but different functions to existing abilities / Passives, make it a player choice, see what is popular, and look at maybe replacing existing stuff, with the borrowed stuff and repeat the process for the next expansion.

[Mirishka]

It seems that ever since Legion, BFA and now Shadowlands, we are getting some form of borrowed power that wont exist next xpac.
(Legendary Items/Artifact passives/actives)
(Azerite,Essences,corruption)
(Covenants, Soul Binds, Conduits)

Im honestly tired of this bullshit
Losing borrowed power is always a shitty feeling
Hopefully, they dial it back a bit next xpac

No, but I'm tired of topics about it.

[Depakote]

Except you forgot to mention talents, passives, abilities, bonuses, etc. "Borrowed" powers as you put it has been around ever since Classic wow in some shape or form.

That's a blatant lie.

[Kumorii]

Nope. I like changes in general and this allows me to do character progression each expansion and not only just ito increase my stats.

[Queen of Hamsters]

No, I am tired of buzzwords.

[BlackDruid96]

It seems that ever since Legion, BFA and now Shadowlands, we are getting some form of borrowed power that wont exist next xpac.
(Legendary Items/Artifact passives/actives)
(Azerite,Essences,corruption)
(Covenants, Soul Binds, Conduits)

Im honestly tired of this bullshit
Losing borrowed power is always a shitty feeling
Hopefully, they dial it back a bit next xpac

I don't like working for something then losing it.

[ZazuuPriest]

It’s the worst. Classes feel incomplete and are constantly changing. The problem is they created an expectation for new class abilities every expansion and this is their answer instead of button bloat

its the better option though. Having 25 button rotations was/would be annoying as hell. Losing borrowed power might feel bad but it still feels better than having a million abilities that hit like a wet noodle because there are too many buttons to make powerful meaningful spells/abilities.

[Swnem]

No one has fed me anything. If you take a new talent in favor of an old one, wasnt the old talent then borrowed power? If it keeps existing you need to balance the game around more and more variables. In fact if you want to keep pvp talents from just last 2 expansions you would have no room to change the base class cause half of the talents would stop working. People loved tier sets, especially when they drastically changed gameplay of a class for one tier then you swapped to something else.

No? It's still there for you to use if you want. It's not really more variables, it's just choosing a layout like you already do. Actually, it would be much easier to balance say 2 new talents per class than all the stuff we get with these systems (2 abilities, lots of soulbind combinations and conduits), the ones you had already balanced in the past should still be balanced. You would only need to balance the new ones each time and possible problematic synergies. It's much less work than what we get with the covenant system.
Also, it really isn't much of a problem what you are saying. We are not talking specifically about PvP talents, we are talking about a PvP talent like system. Also, yes you can remove the old talents no one uses. It's what they do already after all. They got metrics for that.
The point is, there are ways to keep adding in a controlled way. That is progression that stays and isn't just lost 2 years on. It's adding to the game long term.

People liked Tier sets, yes. But, not lots of borrowed power systems on top. We used to just have set bonuses and yes, it was pretty alright. 3 or 4 systems bolted on top? Nah, not so much.

[Crutos]

I like the concept of borrowed power, it feels nice that you can continuously progress your character at end-game and your character isn't done as soon as you hit max level. It just needs to be relevant to your class, offer synergy and effects that work with your toolkit not the random crap we got in BFA.
However I think they really need to take a look at the classes themselves and their baseline/core design instead of focusing so much on this borrowed power stuff. At this point the borrowed power feels more like a bandaid than an addition. A lot of classes/specs really don't feel whole or complete anymore and borrowed power doesn't fix that. The talent system is really not working out imo. 21 talents, 7 choices. At some point every player uses the same talents and the remaining 14 are just dead.

[Sunderella]

Dislike it yeah. Specially when it means layers and layers of RNG as it happens in BfA. The game was better without it.

[Amerissis]

No, I love it. Adding power every expansion and never losing spells will just make things bloated and unruly. This is a perfect way to spice up things without going too far. Best solution ever!

[different]

I hate borrowed powers. All those cor. azer. ess. makes me cry whenerver i want to play some alts. I feel so powerless without proper gear, cuz its not some ilvls its a lot of power just from some stupid traits etc...

Im afraid at 9.2 9.3 this will be the same...

[Lucetia]

That's a blatant lie.

Instead of saying that's a blatant lie, how about elaborating how you think it is.

Borrowed powers have been a thing since classic. There have been several abilities, bonuses, etc that we have borrowed and then lost afterwards. This is an ongoing thing they have always done and is nothing new. The only reason people are complaining about it now, is because it is on gear that they work on instead of just windows they look at a few times.

[Halfaheart]

Did you hate Legendaries with special effects and Tier bonuses? If so, congrats! You've hated every "rental power" system since Vanilla

[Relapses]

Sulfuras was outranked by Ahn Qiraj and PvP weapons already. Maybe thunderfury is BiS till naxx but to compare borrowed power to legendaries in classic requires quite the bit of mental gymnastics

Thunderfury was BiS until Black Temple (though that was mostly because of the proc).

[StillMcfuu]

Wow has always had borrowed powers all the way from early classic to now. If the game wasn't relying on story telling and fun now, it wasn't relying on it in classic. Tier sets would like to say hi btw.

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It's great that new players feel confident enough to actually post but let someone who has actually played from vanilla to now tell you a secret. Every time you level you are the weakest you will ever be when you ding max level. This is a fact. Crying about it as if it was a recent thing is just moronic.

Pretty sure my account is much older than yours pal. If you noticed the hypothetical I used mirrors closely to what happened with rogue and abilities like backstab or ambush.