Stop treating Covenants as if it is an RPG element in a game that is not RPG.

[Tortuga234]

Because it simply is not.
Let's call Covenants "factions" for now because in hindsight they kinda are.

A traditional RPG would have cross-faction relations, the ability to work for several factions (to an extent where player is a double-agent that only manipulates those factions pursuing their own personal goal).

A traditional RPG would have a morality system that would help to represent the player's own personal belief to an extent available within the established world and story. That morality system would also be intertwined with factions directly.

A traditional RPG would have multiple "endings" depending on choices taken, quest completed, NPC befriended, and so on. That would also be affected by the factions you have interacted with and the way you've interacted with them.

This "list" would go on, but I hope you got the point.
The Covenants are an illusion of choice, and it is not meaningful in any way. Because there is no payoff. You will end Shadowlands in a completely linear manner as you have always done with every expansion. You being a "Kyrian Paladin" means nothing in the long run. This is nothing like DA:O, NwN, Fallout NW, and so on.

Sadly, WoW - is not an RPG, not anymore at least. If you actually look at it skeptically you will notice that modern WoW is nothing but a quick match session-based game. Every type of content you do is repetitive, locked behind an instance. How a mythic+ run is different from, say, Heroes of the Storm quick matches with same, but rotating maps and same, but rotating Heroes participating in a short match session. Or an Arena match? Or a raid night?

[Gaidax]

Can we just get a Covenants mega threads by now? I feel like such posts won't stop appearing.

I think mods started locking this obnoxious spam, hoping for same here.

Every random thinks his yet another pirouette needs his own thread because apparently it's so special... le sigh.

[Guidance]

I don't want to be offensive, but who are you to say what makes something RPG or not?

I think what most people want is that they can customize and have specific options based on their choices
It would be nice if the players had enough impact to completely change the direction of the story, but in an MMO it’s not a simple thing to do
but my expectations about AI are big, and it should have a giant impact on us MMO

[dcc626]

the point is moot. if they dont want to change it they wont. its up to players to decide if its enough to make them want to quit.

and for people who think that constant badgering on social media, reddit and twitch is enough to make them crack, let me ask you this:

how are the accountwide essences?

[Tortuga234]

I don't want to be offensive, but who are you to say what makes something RPG or not?

I think what most people want is that they can customize and have specific options based on their choices
It would be nice if the players had enough impact to completely change the direction of the story, but in an MMO it’s not a simple thing to do
but my expectations about AI are big, and it should have a giant impact on us MMO

To answer your question - the definition of an RPG. You don't get to play a role, you just play a linear predestined game in WoW. And the point of the post is that the skeleton of WoW - the gameplay- is just glorified quick matches in the end.

Example - I don't get to support the Foresworn in their fight against the oppressive Kyrian tyrants.

[Nadiru]

in what way is this game not an RPG? You even queue for shit based on roles.

[Tortuga234]

in what way is this game not an RPG? You even queue for shit based on roles.

You do the same in League. Is league RPG?

[Paperfox]

If I have a horde toon, and my friend has an alli toon, there is no way we can do anything together much less queue for a dungeon or raid.

If you are queuing for a dungeon/raid, then you want to have somebody from all Covenants so the group can get all the bonuses.

So I will disagree when you say a covenant is like a faction.

[Tortuga234]

If I have a horde toon, and my friend has an alli toon, there is no way we can do anything together much less queue for a dungeon or raid.

If you are queuing for a dungeon/raid, then you want to have somebody from all Covenants so the group can get all the bonuses.

So I will disagree when you say a covenant is like a faction.

Was talking about factions like Argent Dawn, LOrewalkers, 7th legion etc.

[A Chozo]

WoW isn't a RPG reeee

You people are amusing.

Of course WoW is a RPG, not only MMO-RPGs are suberenge of RPG but WoW itself behaves like a RPG - you Role-Play in the Game, it's pseudo-acting within a game.

...But sure, let's pretend it's a Kart Racer.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Breaking news the only RPGs are made by Bioware according to the OP's list of features.

[Nadiru]

You do the same in League. Is league RPG?

Of course.

[CalamityHeart]

This "list" would go on, but I hope you got the point.

No I don't, actually. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

There's no "sadly, not anymore". WoW was never a "traditional RPG" the likes of which you seem to think that people thought it was, and I cannot fathom where you got the idea that people ever thought this game's elements were anything like the games you mentioned. So if your point is that WoW is moving away from something that it once was, I don't agree (insomuch as it involves these "traditional RPG elements"). And if your point is that people are starting to treat WoW and its systems as if it's something that it's not, I also don't agree. I've never seen anyone make the sorts of claims that you're implying.

WoW being a "quickmatch session-based game" is a different topic, but it's one that I also disagree with. Because the difference between raiding/dungeoning/pvping and Heroes of the Storm is the nature of the journey. In a game like HotS, you start fresh in the moment, you develop the character/hero you're playing over the course of that moment, and when the match ends, the moment ends, and you start it over. That's not how WoW works. When you hop into an M+ or do a raid, your character, in that moment, will not be defined by that session itself, but will have been already defined and developed by every session that came before it. A HotS game is a single moment in a total vacuum. An M+ run is a single moment atop a mountain of prior moments.

I dunno, there's probably simpler ways of articulating the distinction. But I just think that comparing WoW to actual session-based games like HotS is about as disingenous as me saying that HotS matches are a series of tiny micro-RPGs.

[huth]

Sadly, WoW - is not an RPG, not anymore at least. If you actually look at it skeptically you will notice that modern WoW is nothing but a quick match session-based game. Every type of content you do is repetitive, locked behind an instance. How a mythic+ run is different from, say, Heroes of the Storm quick matches with same, but rotating maps and same, but rotating Heroes participating in a short match session. Or an Arena match? Or a raid night?

By you having a fixed, developing character. Which is the primary difference between a MOBA like HotS and a computer RPG, aside from RPGs generally having a more established story.

WoW fills the definition for computer RPGs, so it is one. Whether or not it is also a match based game is irrelevant to that.

[GreatNameForSmurfingExTee]

Sounds like: I can't shag my Kyrian Waifu so this isn't a rpg.

[huth]

No I don't, actually. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

There's no "sadly, not anymore". WoW was never a "traditional RPG" the likes of which you seem to think that people thought it was, and I cannot fathom where you got the idea that people ever thought this game's elements were anything like the games you mentioned.

Depends on what you consider "traditional". It's certainly in line with other CRPGs(which is to say, there's character development, story and an established world for said story to happen in). If you're working off tabletop gaming, well, there's certain limitations imposed by the medium, but those are hardly unique to WoW.

[CalamityHeart]

Depends on what you consider "traditional". It's certainly in line with other CRPGs(which is to say, there's character development, story and an established world for said story to happen in). If you're working off tabletop gaming, well, there's certain limitations imposed by the medium, but those are hardly unique to WoW.

You, I agree with, yes. WoW has always had those RPG elements of character development, story, and a tangible setting.

I was only considering the types of elements that the OP considered "traditional" in their post.

cross-faction relations, the ability to work for several factions (to an extent where player is a double-agent that only manipulates those factions pursuing their own personal goal).

a morality system that would help to represent the player's own personal belief to an extent available within the established world and story. That morality system would also be intertwined with factions directly.

multiple "endings" depending on choices taken, quest completed, NPC befriended, and so on. That would also be affected by the factions you have interacted with and the way you've interacted with them.

^ This. WoW has never been this.

[Woobels]

I think OP's definition of a RPG is very narrow and not accurate but I also don't think covenants are in any way a fitting choice for a game like WoW. I don't think think it's meaningful whatsoever and frankly just doesn't seem like it adds anything significant to the "RPG" experience of WoW.

I feel the actual reasons you can't freely swap is much more cynical and pessimistic but I don't think it's necessary to go over them.

[trapmaster]

Blizzard's Vision is to "How to piss off playerbase"

[huth]

^ This. WoW has never been this.

How common have those even been? I think most of the OP's choices have only really shown up in force in the last two decades and there's still plenty of RPGs that don't feature one or more of them. Or any of them, for that matter.

The last one isn't even correct... we just got that for Sylvanas loyalists.