[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[bagina]

That's happening because of the Jailer, though...? That isn't the natural order of it.

I'm talking in general. It's happening in the first place because the SL are fundamentally flawed. A world where your life force is a fuel and its existence is dependant on some external powers instead of being a fixed realm existing indepedently is not a comforting thought. Not to mention the attacks by other cosmic forces which were happening before Jailer started making his moves.. For a place of eternal rest it sure is anything but.

And if you want to be nitpicky, current SL aren't in their "natural" state. We know they were different before Jailer was banished.

[Reyuna]

Can we just get on with the reveal that Kel'Thuzad is responsible for all the damage being caused to the Shadowlands already.

[Combatbutler]

Yes, considering they are the ones that is causing all the Souls and Anima in the entire universe to go to the Maw.

Yet I don't see how the screecher could have done it and the Jailer needs outside help. Her only involvement was in Stormheim and after that she basically disappeared from the story. The later events are the player-characters wrecking stuff in their usual fashion.

So what could she have done offscreen that would rival us steamrolling through the cosmos.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

so you missed my sarcasm it seems.
so i will say it clearer.
everything going with the shadowlands is the fault of the Winter queen and her allies for putting the Jailer in prison.
the shadowlands is a shit hole that needs to be changed.

How does that even make sense? Do you blame a judge and jury when someone they convict does something bad in jail? This viewpoint just makes no sense to what is presented about the Jailer and the Maw.

- - - Updated - - -

Yet I don't see how the screecher could have done it and the Jailer needs outside help. Her only involvement was in Stormheim and after that she basically disappeared from the story. The later events are the player-characters wrecking stuff in their usual fashion.

So what could she have done offscreen that would rival us steamrolling through the cosmos.

That should be something we learn this expansion.

[Traveler Voltin]

How does that even make sense? Do you blame a judge and jury when someone they convict does something bad in jail? This viewpoint just makes no sense to what is presented about the Jailer and the Maw.

since when the hell was the Winter Queen and her allies Judge and jury?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

since when the hell was the Winter Queen and her allies Judge and jury?

Since they created the Shadowlands and their respective realms? Since they were the only ones who could possibly stop his plans back then?

[Combatbutler]

That should be something we learn this expansion.

Welp so far nothing and it better make sense, not be some random asspull. Like she sneaked out of Orgrimmar in the middle of the night and channeled powerful souls we killed personally into the maw.

[Varodoc]

Can we just get on with the reveal that Kel'Thuzad is responsible for all the damage being caused to the Shadowlands already.

Kel'thuzad is a minion of the Jailer though. It's Jailer and Sylvanas who are responsible. Sylvanas for empowering the Jailer significantly due to the many mass murders she committed and breaking the veil, Jailer for orchestrating everything.

[Traveler Voltin]

Since they created the Shadowlands and their respective realms? Since they were the only ones who could possibly stop his plans back then?

i dont think we even know why the Jailer was put in prison yet.
so why are you so sure the can't be in the wrong?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

i dont think we even know why the Jailer was put in prison yet.
so why are you so sure the can't be in the wrong?

Maybe because innocent souls all over the Universe are being sent to the Maw? Do you understand what goes on there? He's damn children to be tortured, made into weapons of war, turned into horrific monsters. Nothing he's doing can be right.

[Aucald]

i dont think we even know why the Jailer was put in prison yet.
so why are you so sure the can't be in the wrong?

According to the recent VO from the Primus, the Jailer (Zovaal) was put into the Maw because be betrayed the other beings in the Pantheon of Death (the Primus, the Winter Queen, Sire Denathrius, the Archon, and possibly the Arbiter). What he did to betray them is unspecified, but one of the ramifications of his escape appears to be cessation of all existence in Warcraft's metacosm.

[tommyhil622]

This may sound weird but the Winter Queen is facing an Arthas like decision. Where she feels like she has to do something very drastic to protect her realm. I get some echos of Arthas feeling the same way about the undead. Not saying she's evil but door is open that she's willing to walk through in order to make sure Ardenwall survives. We already see she's allowing the sacrifice of souls to feed the anima requirements but if things get any worse, what else will she be willing to do? And those under command?

[bagina]

What are you hiding behind your back? Is that anima surprise egg you have there? Show me! Surely you'll share it with your fellow Faes? It's for the good of our world after all... What? Care to repeat? You won't give it to me? Well...

[Rhlor]

This may sound weird but the Winter Queen is facing an Arthas like decision. Where she feels like she has to do something very drastic to protect her realm. I get some echos of Arthas feeling the same way about the undead. Not saying she's evil but door is open that she's willing to walk through in order to make sure Ardenwall survives. We already see she's allowing the sacrifice of souls to feed the anima requirements but if things get any worse, what else will she be willing to do? And those under command?

reminds me of the prince of the highborne

[Moonrage]

This may sound weird but the Winter Queen is facing an Arthas like decision. Where she feels like she has to do something very drastic to protect her realm. I get some echos of Arthas feeling the same way about the undead. Not saying she's evil but door is open that she's willing to walk through in order to make sure Ardenwall survives. We already see she's allowing the sacrifice of souls to feed the anima requirements but if things get any worse, what else will she be willing to do? And those under command?

She certainly seemed a lot more intimidating and domineering the second time she appeared.

[Coconut]

This may sound weird but the Winter Queen is facing an Arthas like decision. Where she feels like she has to do something very drastic to protect her realm. I get some echos of Arthas feeling the same way about the undead. Not saying she's evil but door is open that she's willing to walk through in order to make sure Ardenwall survives. We already see she's allowing the sacrifice of souls to feed the anima requirements but if things get any worse, what else will she be willing to do? And those under command?

It can also apply to Sylvanas burning Teldrassil/starting the war, depending on her final goal. Problem is, with Blizzard you never know if the moral parallels are intended or not.

[UndedoKoleda]

According to the recent VO from the Primus, the Jailer (Zovaal) was put into the Maw because be betrayed the other beings in the Pantheon of Death (the Primus, the Winter Queen, Sire Denathrius, the Archon, and possibly the Arbiter). What he did to betray them is unspecified, but one of the ramifications of his escape appears to be cessation of all existence in Warcraft's metacosm.

The Arbiter is as well.

[Combatbutler]

This may sound weird but the Winter Queen is facing an Arthas like decision. Where she feels like she has to do something very drastic to protect her realm. I get some echos of Arthas feeling the same way about the undead. Not saying she's evil but door is open that she's willing to walk through in order to make sure Ardenwall survives. We already see she's allowing the sacrifice of souls to feed the anima requirements but if things get any worse, what else will she be willing to do? And those under command?

As many as it takes I'd say.

[bagina]

The Arbiter is as well.

It's interesting that Arbiter is so different from the other five. They're all humanoids with with very human features, you could even speculate they evolved from the same race whereas the Arbiter looks very foreign and like an automaton. I wonder if it's intentional

[Combatbutler]

It can also apply to Sylvanas burning Teldrassil/starting the war, depending on her final goal. Problem is, with Blizzard you never know if the moral parallels are intended or not.

They went the extra mile to show sympathy here, so it is quite save to say this is one the times it is acceptable to kill innocents in droves for the good of all.