[Spoilers] Shadowlands: Afterlives Cinematic Discussion

[Ursoc18]

Even Blizzard is basically telling people not to be angry at Winter Queen, because they showed a scene of Ardenweald literally crumbling and dying if these people are too afraid to sacrifice anyone, but as usual victim-blaming is the forte of this forum.

The Winter Queen was asking for it.

[Varodoc]

The Winter Queen was asking for it.

Asking for what? The machine of death to break? A massive anima dought to hit Ardenweald?

[Wyattbw09]

If there's one thing this forum excels at, it's victim-blaming.

So I agree with your larger point, I'm not sure how the Winter Queen or the Wild Hunt are the victims here?

[Varodoc]

So I agree with your larger point, I'm not sure how the Winter Queen or the Wild Hunt are the victims here?

Winter Queen didn't break the machine of death, how is she responsible for the anima drought? She's a victim of the Jailer like everyone else.

[Verdugo]

Winter Queen didn't break the machine of death, how is she responsible for the anima drought? She's a victim of the Jailer like everyone else.

You seem to be extremely pissed off that people dont follow your line of thought. What gives?

[Wyattbw09]

Winter Queen didn't break the machine of death, how is she responsible for the anima drought? She's a victim of the Jailer like everyone else.

She is not responsible for the anima drought, but that does not mean she is equally not responsible for the decisions she makes in response. She is the person with agency in this case. She choose to call the Wild Hunt, she choose to cull the groves. She very well might have felt like she had no other choice, but she is not the victim. Ursoc is the victim. If you blamed him for dying during a drought and causing himself to be culled, that would be blaming the victim. The Winter Queen is a victim in a lot of ways, but nothing in the Afterlives cinematic made her a victim.

[Varodoc]

She is not responsible for the anima drought, but that does not mean she is equally not responsible for the decisions she makes in response. She is the person with agency in this case. She choose to call the Wild Hunt, she choose to cull the groves. She very well might have felt like she had no other choice, but she is not the victim. Ursoc is the victim. If you blamed him for dying during a drought and causing himself to be culled, that would be blaming the victim. The Winter Queen is a victim in a lot of ways, but nothing in the Afterlives cinematic made her a victim.

??? You understand her actions are necessary to ensure Ardenweald's future, yes? We literally have direct confirmation from Blizzard in this video that Ardenweald risks to wither away and die if these hard decisions are not made.

[Lady Atia]

She is not responsible for the anima drought, but that does not mean she is equally not responsible for the decisions she makes in response. She is the person with agency in this case. She choose to call the Wild Hunt, she choose to cull the groves. She very well might have felt like she had no other choice, but she is not the victim. Ursoc is the victim. If you blamed him for dying during a drought and causing himself to be culled, that would be blaming the victim. The Winter Queen is a victim in a lot of ways, but nothing in the Afterlives cinematic made her a victim.

To add to this ... she could have send a message to Sire Denathrius back then, but she didn't - instead she culled groves with "lesser souls" or something .... that's .... just bad. All loa/wild gods are precious and should be saved. So na, sorry, I can't see anything good in that Winter Queen right now ....

#RevengeForUrsoc

[Wyattbw09]

I get this is sort of bunny trailing, however, having to make difficult decisions is simply not the same as being a victim.

President Hoover had to make a difficult choice to drop two nuclear bombs on Japanese cities. No doubt he felt he had to or it would have cost countless American lives to invade Japan.

Hoover is not the victim. Blaming Hoover for the results of dropping those bombs is not blaming the victim.

The Winter Queen is not the victim. Blaming her because the groves got culled is not blaming the victim.

Not arguing with you that it was right decision, just trying to point out that she is not the victim.

[Combatbutler]

You seem to be extremely pissed off that people dont follow your line of thought. What gives?

The Stratholme of the wilds is in full swing and here I thought blizz established such things were bad XD

Remember this moment the next time blizz says the end justifies the means is wrong.

[8bithamster]

??? You understand her actions are necessary to ensure Ardenweald's future, yes? We literally have direct confirmation from Blizzard in this video that Ardenweald risks to wither away and die if these hard decisions are not made.

Exactly this, but the average MMO champ poster needs a new person to hate after Sylvanas, so she is it.. logic? Goes straight out of the window.

And before the fanboys start "ehmagerd Sylvanas is hitler wtf how dare you say that".. yea Sylvanas is pure evil, and deserves everything she will get.

[Varodoc]

To add to this ... she could have send a message to Sire Denathrius back then, but she didn't - instead she culled groves with "lesser souls" or something .... that's .... just bad. All loa/wild gods are precious and should be saved. So na, sorry, I can't see anything good in that Winter Queen right now ....

#RevengeForUrsoc

And why would she do that? All other realms are faced with anima drought as well, Ardenweald just has the worst, but it's not like the other realms are thriving. Besides Denathrius is a servant of Jailer, the one who caused the drought in the first place.

All life is to be cherished, which is why the Winter Queen was visibly devastated that she had to order this. You can thank Sylvanas Windrunner and her bald master for causing that crisis in the first place.

I get this is sort of bunny trailing, however, having to make difficult decisions is simply not the same as being a victim.

President Hoover had to make a difficult choice to drop two nuclear bombs on Japanese cities. No doubt he felt he had to or it would have cost countless American lives to invade Japan.

Hoover is not the victim. Blaming Hoover for the results of dropping those bombs is not blaming the victim.

The Winter Queen is not the victim. Blaming her because the groves got culled is not blaming the victim.

Not arguing with you that it was right decision, just trying to point out that she is not the victim.

But she is the victim, all these people are. They were literally just minding their business and living in peace in Ardenweald, until Jailer and Sylvanas broke the machine of death because they want everyone to suffer.

Exactly this, but the average MMO champ poster needs a new person to hate after Sylvanas, so she is it.. logic? Goes straight out of the window.

And before the fanboys start "ehmagerd Sylvanas is hitler wtf how dare you say that".. yea Sylvanas is pure evil, and deserves everything she will get.

I would say these people are actually Sylvanas fanboys, since they claim that Sylvanas' enemies are evil, while ignore the fact that Sylvanas helped cause this drought in the first place.

[Themerlin]

Winter Queen didn't break the machine of death, how is she responsible for the anima drought? She's a victim of the Jailer like everyone else.

I feel like those spirits that "winter" in Ardenweald, a spiritual luscious forest, were not aware that these caretakers and The Queen of Winter would be able to cannibalize them for sustenance. This does not seem like an afterlife at all...

There is something creepy about it all.

Almost like Ardenweald itself is a prison of sorts, where your captors/caretakers determine your fate according to her will. In times of plenty they feed the spirits with Anima, they are reborn, eventually die, and the cycle of the rebirth/anima machine continues. Now that the machine of the afterlife is broken, the underlying faults of each covenant is laid out in the open.

Not as benevolent as we thought.

[Aucald]

To add to this ... she could have send a message to Sire Denathrius back then, but she didn't - instead she culled groves with "lesser souls" or something .... that's .... just bad. All loa/wild gods are precious and should be saved. So na, sorry, I can't see anything good in that Winter Queen right now ....

#RevengeForUrsoc

In the final Ardenweald quests you get the distinct impression that the Winter Queen petitioning Sire Denathrius for anima is an effective Godzilla-type threshold that even the sacrifice of the wildseeds was not, and quite possibly something with extensive ramifications we don't ourselves know.

[Varodoc]

I feel like those spirits that "winter" in Ardenweald, a spiritual luscious forest, were not aware that these caretakers and The Queen of Winter would be able to cannibalize them for sustenance. This does not seem like an afterlife at all...

There is something creepy about it all.

Almost like Ardenweald itself is a prison of sorts, where your captors/caretakers determine your fate according to her will. In times of plenty they feed the spirits with Anima, they are reborn, eventually die, and the cycle of the rebirth/anima machine continues. Now that the machine of the afterlife is broken, the underlying faults of each covenant is laid out in the open.

Not as benevolent as we thought.

That's literally the point. The Shadowlands are messed up and broken now, because the machine of death has been shattered. How can the afterlife be peaceful and serene when its underlying mechanism has been ruined?

[Wyattbw09]

But she is the victim, all these people are.

Yes, she absolutely is a victim, but not of any of the content of Afterlives.

[Varodoc]

Yes, she absolutely is a victim, but not of any of the content of Afterlives.

The cinematic literally shows a vision of the horrible future that awaits Ardenweald and its people if they don't end this crisis, and the Winter Queen is clearly very sad that Ursoc has to be sacrificed, so the intentions of the writers in this cinematic are obvious.

[Doffen]

The cinematic literally shows a vision of the horrible future that awaits Ardenweald and its people if they don't end this crisis, and the Winter Queen is clearly very sad that Ursoc has to be sacrificed, so the intentions of the writers in this cinematic are obvious.

I guess some people didn't see that she said she would honor the dude's wish even if he wanted to take care of that one soul, Ursoc.

Such evil lady. The cinematic was all about the tough choices they have to do to keep the realms of death still running. And the lesser point is that Ara'lon got that choice to do for himself.

[Lady Atia]

And why would she do that? All other realms are faced with anima drought as well, Ardenweald just has the worst, but it's not like the other realms are thriving. Besides Denathrius is a servant of Jailer, the one who caused the drought in the first place.

All life is to be cherished, which is why the Winter Queen was visibly devastated that she had to order this. You can thank Sylvanas Windrunner and her bald master for causing that crisis in the first place.



But she is the victim, all these people are. They were literally just minding their business and living in peace in Ardenweald, until Jailer and Sylvanas broke the machine of death because they want everyone to suffer.



I would say these people are actually Sylvanas fanboys, since they claim that Sylvanas' enemies are evil, while ignore the fact that Sylvanas helped cause this drought in the first place.

At the start of Shadowlands the Winter Queen still thinks the Sire is a good guy - she even sends the Maw Walker to get some anima from him ...

[Varodoc]

At the start of Shadowlands the Winter Queen still thinks the Sire is a good guy - she even sends the Maw Walker to get some anima from him ...

I don't have beta so I wouldn't know.

I guess some people didn't see that she said she would honor the dude's wish even if he wanted to take care of that one soul, Ursoc.

Such evil lady. The cinematic was all about the tough choices they have to do to keep the realms of death still running. And the lesser point is that Ara'lon got that choice to do for himself.

Sylvanas fanboys are really grasping at straws, aren't they?

Infracted.