Blizzard listened. Kinda. New Build.

[Calevra]

Well, the devs listened to the feedback. Just not all of it. They reverted the DT/Apocalypse blend. Now they just need to make gargoyle baseline again, replace it on the talent tree with 'Dark Arbiter' and remove DT and Gargoyle from the GCD and just like that... unholy is good to go. I hope they consider these very simple changes and take a few steps forward instead of backwards.

Why would they hype up gargoyle's returning to baseline, then take it away and make it a dead talent again? It doesn't have to be a dead talent. It can work.

[Puupi]

Why?

Incompetence.

[ro9ue]

Why do you want Gargoyle baseline? I'd rather it remain a talent and take it if I want, it doesn't need to be a part of the base -required- kit. If it's the weakest talent by a mile in the row.. that's just a balancing issue.

[Calevra]

Because it was an ability that was cool and impactful. Also it was promised to be returning to our kits long ago. By putting it back in the tree they have sealed its fate as a dead talent, why? It’s not necessary at all, can be avoided completely by simply bringing back Dark Arbiter. Not a single person is excited to see gargoyle back in the tree.

It very well could be that blizzard is too lazy to do what is needed and too stubborn to make the GCD changes to make it happen.

[Beefkow]

Why do you want Gargoyle baseline? I'd rather it remain a talent and take it if I want, it doesn't need to be a part of the base -required- kit. If it's the weakest talent by a mile in the row.. that's just a balancing issue.

Why do you want Shadow Word: Death baseline?

Why do you want Cleave baseline?

Ya, let's just keep pruning.

But seriously, they can bring back gargoyle but make a talent that improves gargoyle, not rocket science.

[Mirishka]

Not a single person is excited to see gargoyle back in the tree.

Any argument you might make for the change you're asking for is automatically sabotaged by hyperbolic nonsense like this, and by the tired-ass 'blizz is lazy'.

I don't know who started the 'Blizz doesn't make the change I want so they must be lazy' train, but I hope that person suffers from a neurological disorder that causes him to randomly punch himself in the face.

[ro9ue]

Why do you want Shadow Word: Death baseline?

Why do you want Cleave baseline?

Ya, let's just keep pruning.

But seriously, they can bring back gargoyle but make a talent that improves gargoyle, not rocket science.

Those are rotational abilities not a CD.

[Beefkow]

Those are rotational abilities not a CD.

It's an ability regardless, we need less shit that we had in wotlk put into talent trees. Idk who thought that was a good idea in BFA, but it needs to stop.

I liked gargoyle as part of my toolkit, even though it was cast and forget it, I just loved the fantasy. They did it right in legion with the whole dark arbiter concept, it worked.

[Calevra]

Any argument you might make for the change you're asking for is automatically sabotaged by hyperbolic nonsense like this, and by the tired-ass 'blizz is lazy'.

I don't know who started the 'Blizz doesn't make the change I want so they must be lazy' train, but I hope that person suffers from a neurological disorder that causes him to randomly punch himself in the face.

Why is that? Think the truth will make them spiteful? I, among others, have offered quite a few excellent solutions.

[Calfredd]

Why is that? Think the truth will make them spiteful? I, among others, have offered quite a few excellent solutions.

That, too, is subjective.

Also not sure why you didn't put this in your other thread.

[Ange]

Would rather like necrotic back and maybe soul reaper replaced with something that does not add even more frustration to the spec. Gargoyle? I dont care, it was usable with the 2min (TRINKET) cooldown or as DA, outside of that it was allways the useless 3min cooldown.

[Calevra]

I don't think so. If they just took DT and Gargoyle off the GCD they would of fixed the issues they claimed to have been targeting. Now they are back tracking and the reluctance to do so has caused even more problems. I'll never understand why they are so scared to take obvious things off the GCD. They feel absolutely fine baking it into another ability, which is by effect taking it off a CD, but for some reason... just cant seem to just take it off the GCD... just cant do it... anything but that I guess lol. Who knows.

[Ange]

but for some reason... just cant seem to just take it off the GCD... just cant do it... anything but that I guess lol. Who knows.

LEGION + Warrior + Draught of Souls

The whole shitshow with GCD is because of 1 stupid class with stackable cooldown and the pure wisdom of nerfing the trinket for everyone but warriors for months.

It left a scar in the mind of the community and the GCD/burst stacking was a community demand in the first place.

Blame stupid classes that stack insane burst in a few globals with no setup, blame blizzard for leaving the broken state for nearly a year, blame what ever you want, but claiming that there is no reason for the GCD change is just ignorant.

In my opinion they should have just gutted rogues and warriors with warlocks together for BfA, A full meta ongoing for a whole expansion was just silly, but leaving FOTM for 2 back 2 back expansion will be difficult to repair.

[plz delete account]

It's an ability regardless, we need less shit that we had in wotlk put into talent trees. Idk who thought that was a good idea in BFA, but it needs to stop.

I liked gargoyle as part of my toolkit, even though it was cast and forget it, I just loved the fantasy. They did it right in legion with the whole dark arbiter concept, it worked.

Dark Arbiter/Gargoyle was best in Legion, tbh.

[faithbane]

Any argument you might make for the change you're asking for is automatically sabotaged by hyperbolic nonsense like this, and by the tired-ass 'blizz is lazy'.

I don't know who started the 'Blizz doesn't make the change I want so they must be lazy' train, but I hope that person suffers from a neurological disorder that causes him to randomly punch himself in the face.

people are like you are the worst and literally the reason why we cant have nice things. Seriously you completely ignore his argument and decide to talk about his 1 exaggerated expression and semantics? Are the rest of your 10k posts as pointless as this?

most of the original changes blizz made, have been received with overwhelming positive response on all beta feedback as well as official forums and discords. People were extremely happy to receive an iconic ability back and now out of the blue, blizz said - lets see how we can mess up this goodwill.

With these changes, on top of usual "they do what they want and not listen to user feedback anyway" comment, they also showed that there isn't a single competent DK player among their devs that make these decisions. It would have taken 1 good dk to point out why the apoc/DT merger was disruptive for fs building/aoe ramp up as well as extremely limiting and dumbing down of the skill cap for pvp players that actually need to use their DT outside melee range, independent from the opener/burst, can't be saved if being forced to pop with apoc.

[korijenkins]

All the unholy DKs suddenly realizing the spec is miserable to play.

[bloodmoth13]

Why do you want Shadow Word: Death baseline?

Why do you want Cleave baseline?

Ya, let's just keep pruning.

But seriously, they can bring back gargoyle but make a talent that improves gargoyle, not rocket science.

Different players want different things, best to keep the core gameplay loop light and allow players to expand through talents, which ought to appeal to everyone other than players who are greedy and want everything all at once.

Also i dont want to see cleave return and i dont like SW baseline since shadow has far too much clutter now.

[Mirishka]

people are like you are the worst and literally the reason why we cant have nice things. Seriously you completely ignore his argument and decide to talk about his 1 exaggerated expression and semantics? Are the rest of your 10k posts as pointless as this?

most of the original changes blizz made, have been received with overwhelming positive response on all beta feedback as well as official forums and discords. People were extremely happy to receive an iconic ability back and now out of the blue, blizz said - lets see how we can mess up this goodwill.

With these changes, on top of usual "they do what they want and not listen to user feedback anyway" comment, they also showed that there isn't a single competent DK player among their devs that make these decisions. It would have taken 1 good dk to point out why the apoc/DT merger was disruptive for fs building/aoe ramp up as well as extremely limiting and dumbing down of the skill cap for pvp players that actually need to use their DT outside melee range, independent from the opener/burst, can't be saved if being forced to pop with apoc.

And people like you are the reason the forums are filled with more noise than signal. Learn how to give feedback without all the childish 'reeeee blizz hates my class' nonsense.

[Calevra]

LEGION + Warrior + Draught of Souls

The whole shitshow with GCD is because of 1 stupid class with stackable cooldown and the pure wisdom of nerfing the trinket for everyone but warriors for months.

It left a scar in the mind of the community and the GCD/burst stacking was a community demand in the first place.

Blame stupid classes that stack insane burst in a few globals with no setup, blame blizzard for leaving the broken state for nearly a year, blame what ever you want, but claiming that there is no reason for the GCD change is just ignorant.

In my opinion they should have just gutted rogues and warriors with warlocks together for BfA, A full meta ongoing for a whole expansion was just silly, but leaving FOTM for 2 back 2 back expansion will be difficult to repair.

Arrogant? lol. You think that single instance of exploit excuses blizzard ignoring obvious solutions? Okay then buddy.

- - - Updated - - -

And people like you are the reason the forums are filled with more noise than signal. Learn how to give feedback without all the childish 'reeeee blizz hates my class' nonsense.

Yea, I am quickly learning that there are some spicy toxics in these ole forums. lol

[Lefrog]

Not a single person is excited to see gargoyle back in the tree.

I am! I'd rather have 1 less mandatory button to push/CD to keep track of/Priority to memorize.

Then again, I liked the DT + Apoc combo for the same reason lol and they undid that

There was honestly way too much to press in beta before these rounds of changes regardless of GCD (still is imo). Removing them from the GCD would only help me if I could macro them into another ability whose timer lines up...defeating the purpose of having a strong cooldown to use at a precise moment for that burst.