1. #14361
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You're conveniently ignoring that Gaige was there already helping the wounded. He approached someone who he thought was wounded and needed help. Arms up. Showing that he isn't a threat.

    Kyle still had a gun pointed at him, instead of lowering. And you're faulting someone for possibly pointing a gun at that person in self defense.

    Which again, not a single article mentions this happening. As easy as I'm sure it is to call "BIAS!" on the sites, at least one should have. Is it possible he did? Sure. But that would take ignoring why he would pull a gun out or who shot first to try to paint them as being "the same".

    But again, there's a reason why one is in jail, and the other isn't. And you can hardly try to criticize one for pulling a gun out, and then go "I'm not interested in self defense!". Cherrypicking isn't a way to prove your point. You can't selectively pick what happened to try to prove your point. Whether you want to believe they're similar or not, your opinion doesn't hold up to what actually happened.

    Gaige was there, and helped treat injured.

    Kyle was there, and he murdered people with a gun he legally shouldn't have had.
    Shalcker is bringing some facts into this.

    You are ignoring that Kyle was there to help wounded too. As he said "If there is somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way." and Kyle is seen on a video helping a woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oQl...annel=MarkDice at 1:40

    Gaige didnt approach someone who he thought was wounded. He was chasing Kyle with a gun out before even Kyle shot the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and tried to take his weapon. It can be clearly seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjG...hannel=NBCNews at 2:35

    When Gaige did "I surrender" gesture Kyle didnt shoot him. Kyle was not even pointing his gun at Gaige anymore after that. He shot him only after Gaige lowered his hand (still holding a gun) and lunged at him. Once again it can be pretty clearly seen in the video.

    Your another claim : "And please tell me, what was Kyle doing at that point? Sitting on the ground, squarely pointing his gun at Gaige? Mind you, it's been shown that Gaige had a concealed gun, so Kyle had literally no reason to be pointing a gun at him like that in the first place when he's walking up to him with his hands up.

    How can you even say this ? Did you even watch video of this event ? His gun is in his hand the whole time and he is not walking up to him but charging at him.
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  2. #14362
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    What a dishonorable monster, attempting to stop someone who killed two people, after pretending to surrender. You're supposed to show respect to murderers and *maybe* they won't kill you.

    Is this really the kind of logic I'm seeing here?

  3. #14363
    Logic you see here is "when you chase and point your weapon at someone you can get shot". Kyle had two options - let Gaige shoot him or shoot him first himself.
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  4. #14364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Logic you see here is "when you chase and point your weapon at someone you can get shot". Kyle had two options - let Gaige shoot him or shoot him first himself.
    ... or go to the cops... are you arguing to defund police?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    So he shot him after he lunged but he was also at risk of being shot at the same time? Rock solid defense.
    The people he killed were unarmed and he is pointing the gun at others who are unarmed, when the licensed paramedic with a right to carry a gun for this very reason, tries to stop him.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  5. #14365
    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    So he shot him after he lunged but he was also at risk of being shot at the same time? Rock solid defense.

    If you're going to make up a fiction at least make it consistent.
    He lunged towards him and at the same time lowered his gun hand, what do you dont understand?

    Fiction ? Literally watch the video
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  6. #14366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    He lunged towards him and at the same time lowered his gun hand, what do you dont understand?

    Fiction ? Literally watch the video
    He is a licensed paramedic, that has a right to carry a gun for moments such as this... when an active shooter kills 2 unarmed people and is aiming at others. Who is he aiming his gun at? How many lives did the paramedic save, from being killed in self defense?

    Who the fuck is he aiming his gun at? People running away?



    How many lives did the paramedic save?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  7. #14367
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    ... or go to the cops... are you arguing to defund police?

    - - - Updated - - -



    The people he killed were unarmed and he is pointing the gun at others who are unarmed, when the licensed paramedic with a right to carry a gun for this very reason, tries to stop him.
    Kyle was trying to go to cops when he chased him. He even told Gaige that he is running towards cops before he started chasing him.


    Both people who Kyle killed were trying to take away his weapon. One was even hitting him.

    When was Kyle pointing his gun at unarmed people that were not attacking him before Gaige tried to stop him ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post

    How many lives did the paramedic save?

    Seeing how Kyle did not shoot anyone who was not attacking him and was making his way towards cops the answer is probably 0
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  8. #14368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Both people who Kyle killed were trying to take away his weapon. One was even hitting him.
    No shit! 3 people wouldn’t have been shot, if they succeeded.

    When was Kyle pointing his gun at unarmed people that were not attacking him before Gaige tried to stop him ?
    What? People were running away and he is pointing the gun at them? He than turns and shoots a paramedic trying to stop more people getting shot. Both people he killed did not shoot anything... he killed two unarmed people... and was aiming at people running away.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  9. #14369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Seeing how Kyle did not shoot anyone who was not attacking him and was making his way towards cops the answer is probably 0
    Because the people he killed stopped him!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    So you're suggesting he was lunging and going to shoot?
    No, he is suggesting the murderers lack of training, means those people deserved to die. In their world, a perfect crime is to hand a gun to a schizophrenic.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Because the people he killed stopped him!!!
    ....how did they stopped him? He got up and continued running to cops.

    Are you suggesting that he wanted to commit some mass shooting or what ?
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  11. #14371
    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Kyle was trying to go to cops when he chased him. He even told Gaige that he is running towards cops before he started chasing him.


    Both people who Kyle killed were trying to take away his weapon. One was even hitting him.

    When was Kyle pointing his gun at unarmed people that were not attacking him before Gaige tried to stop him ?

    - - - Updated - - -




    Seeing how Kyle did not shoot anyone who was not attacking him and was making his way towards cops the answer is probably 0
    Its patently fucking stupid that you see those pictures and video and see Kyle still pointing his weapon and ready too shoot, AFTER he's already shot and killed 2 people, but the paramedic approaching him with his hands up and gun pointed away and not even held in a manner where he could shoot...is the aggressor in your mind.

    Your bias is out, obvious and on full display.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  12. #14372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    ....how did they stopped him? He got up and continued running to cops.
    If this is the case, why did the cops apprehend him at home? It seems like he was running away, after killing 2 people.

    Are you suggesting that he wanted to commit some mass shooting or what ?
    I’m suggesting a 17 year old, was spooked, then got so afraid that he had to be stopped from killing more people. Wanted to, is asking me to look inside his brain. I can’t do that... although, we can... for one of his victims... /rimshot?

    Hey... all those people running away from the shooter... were they acting in self defense?

    Edit: When you respond to that, I’ll post a Sponge Bob meme... the one with... 2 hours later... those are great.
    Last edited by Felya; 2020-09-12 at 12:26 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  13. #14373
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Its patently fucking stupid that you see those pictures and video and see Kyle still pointing his weapon and ready too shoot, AFTER he's already shot and killed 2 people, but the paramedic approaching him with his hands up and gun pointed away and not even held in a manner where he could shoot...is the aggressor in your mind.

    Your bias is out, obvious and on full display.
    This is simply not truth. You are ignoring reality that is captured on the video. I am not the one with bias.

    https://imgur.com/a/0tMMhLq Gaige is charging at him, not "approaching him with his hands up"

    https://imgur.com/a/5tv97dY Gaige put his hands in air, Kyle is not aiming at him anymore

    https://imgur.com/a/ckzhOQp Kyle lowered his gun, Gaige put his hands down and is lunging at Kyle

    https://imgur.com/a/zMv8eKe Kyle quickly shoots Gaige while Gaige is pointing his gun at him

    Video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjG...hannel=NBCNews
    Democratic Socialist Convention : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPLQNUVmq3o

  14. #14374
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/u...ing-video.html
    22-23 second mark in the video under the second "Second Shooting"
    Use Incognito to bypass New York Times paywall.

    I mean did you even try to find a source because it was pretty fucking easy?
    I don't know about you, but if you have to give a cheesy way to get around a paywalled article, chances are you can't claim it's "easy".

    And again, the article says nothing about him pointing a gun at Kyle. Just that he had one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Shalcker is bringing some facts into this.

    You are ignoring that Kyle was there to help wounded too. As he said "If there is somebody hurt, I’m running into harm’s way." and Kyle is seen on a video helping a woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oQl...annel=MarkDice at 1:40

    Gaige didnt approach someone who he thought was wounded. He was chasing Kyle with a gun out before even Kyle shot the guy who attacked him with a skateboard and tried to take his weapon. It can be clearly seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjG...hannel=NBCNews at 2:35

    When Gaige did "I surrender" gesture Kyle didnt shoot him. Kyle was not even pointing his gun at Gaige anymore after that. He shot him only after Gaige lowered his hand (still holding a gun) and lunged at him. Once again it can be pretty clearly seen in the video.

    Your another claim : "And please tell me, what was Kyle doing at that point? Sitting on the ground, squarely pointing his gun at Gaige? Mind you, it's been shown that Gaige had a concealed gun, so Kyle had literally no reason to be pointing a gun at him like that in the first place when he's walking up to him with his hands up.

    How can you even say this ? Did you even watch video of this event ? His gun is in his hand the whole time and he is not walking up to him but charging at him.
    You realize no matter how you try to frame it that "they're both the same!", there's a reason one has charges of murder and other crimes, while the other doesn't.

  15. #14375
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Imagine reconciling:
    "the paramedic guy had a gun in his possession, so Rittenhouse was acting in self defense to shoot him"

    And


    "Rittenhouse walking around waving his gun at people isn't a threat in of itself"

  16. #14376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    This is simply not truth. You are ignoring reality that is captured on the video. I am not the one with bias.
    Were all the people running away from the murderer, acting in self defense?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #14377
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    Imagine reconciling:
    "the paramedic guy had a gun in his possession, so Rittenhouse was acting in self defense to shoot him"
    And
    "Rittenhouse walking around waving his gun at people isn't a threat in of itself"
    Why would you argue second though? Sure it's a threat. Open gun carry always carries a threat of force with it. It is meant to deter attacks - which is often helpful in riot situations as long as things don't escalate.

    Obviously once things do escalate they can escalate quite rapidly and in irreversible fashion - but US laws seem to consider that to be acceptable tradeoff for historical reasons. Insane, but then so are many other things US still keep for historical reasons.

    That is why choice to escalate situation by Rosenbaum was stupid. Once he escalated he got shot, and then several others got shot as people around them kept escalating it further rather then back down.

    All that doesn't stop shooting someone lunging at Kyle with a gun while he is down on the ground from being self-defense - once you accept US premise that self-defense with a gun is perfectly fine, and there is no concept of "excessive self-defense" when everyone around has or can be assumed to have a gun and posses deadly threat (we have such thing in Russia, where even perfectly self-defending actions can get you jailed if your response is seen as disproportionate - even when police does it - but i think shooting someone lunging at you with a gun in a hand would still pass as acceptable self-defense even here).
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2020-09-12 at 01:26 PM.

  18. #14378
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You realize no matter how you try to frame it that "they're both the same!", there's a reason one has charges of murder and other crimes, while the other doesn't.
    Yes, one of them shot first.

    That seems to be major difference.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Guns are the worst thing to bring to a riot to de-escalate it. By openly carrying one you are escalating.
    Are you saying everyone who was shooting around Kyle, both before and after him, was escalating situation? I don't necessarily disagree.

    And so did paramedic when he pulled out his own gun... and then lunged.

    He escalated already tense situation and got shot for it.

  19. #14379
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Yes, one of them shot first.

    That seems to be major difference.
    And you realize by the time Gaige and Kyle got to each other, Kyle already killed someone, right?

    There isn't a comparison here. Your fixation on making Gaige sound just as guilty as Kyle is flat out ridiculous at this point, the situation was already escalated BY Kyle, he was being chased because he killed someone.

  20. #14380
    CAN WE GET THE FUCK OFF RITTENHOUSE

    Those people supporting him have A combination of a posting history that included.

    Supporting the terrorist from Charlottesville.

    Calling for the extermination of ethnic groups.

    History of racist posts.

    They are people who fully support white nationalist shooting up people and don’t give a fuck

    What we should be talking about.

    Police thanking white nationalist and KETTLEING PROTESTERS INTO THEM

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