Hunters in Shadowlands

[Sondrelk]

i cba to do maths or whatever, but i think the dmg part for BW will be more of a flavour thing than a "good" dmg, just to justify the ability being on the GCD.

And i saw that rank 2 as well, but maybe without the rank 2, AS is costing 30 focus as rank 1? Since people are still saying MM is still focus starved and trueshot/dead eye dont feel good to use because of it.

I did do some light testing on the PTR and it does seem like the big culprit ironically is high haste, as that gives you too many Aimed Shots to use if you also want to use Precise shots.
The opener is really weird as you quickly try to dump all your abilities at once so they can go on the cooldown, but after a short time the rotation does actually become somewhat useable, at least in the sense that you feel you can use Precise Shots without wasting Aimed Shots.

Though that being said I am still not sold on whether this is actually what the spec should be. Even if we presuppose not having to use Arcane Shot at all is a reward for optimizing the spec it still feels like ass to ignore the only proc we have. Not to mention that I only really managed to get the rotation somewhat bearable by only choosing the most basic of talents.

So I guess MM is actually not completely broken, though I still feel we deserve better than another expansion of looking at our talent tree and wondering what it would be like to have choices that actually affect how we play the spec, or worse still having a core the rotation and talent choices could supplement.

[Gigantique]

Yeah, bar any dramatic changes I'm jumping ship to my Shaman as my main for the first time since I made the hunter with the launch of belves in TBC.

Suffered through the BfA revamp, swapped to BM once we started having higher stats, but I'll be damned if I go through that bullshit again.

G-goddamn-G Blizz.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, bar any dramatic changes I'm jumping ship to my Shaman as my main for the first time since I made the hunter with the launch of belves in TBC.

Suffered through the BfA revamp, swapped to BM once we started having higher stats, but I'll be damned if I go through that bullshit again.

G-goddamn-G Blizz.

Well I am still going to stick it out, mostly because it would just feel weird to swap mains at this point. And if I managed BfA MM I am sure I can stomach SL MM, at least long enough to hold out hope for a 9.1 or 9.2 revamp.

[Rondi]

I would be more than happy to keep playing BM in Shadowlands. I don’t get why most of you guys would want to switch to MM? Marksman feels unfinished, the rotation is just weird.

What is it about BM that alot of you don’t like? I am curious.

[Sondrelk]

I would be more than happy to keep playing BM in Shadowlands. I don’t get why most of you guys would want to switch to MM? Marksman feels unfinished, the rotation is just weird.

What is it about BM that alot of you don’t like? I am curious.

I just never managed to get into it, there is simply something about the BM rotation that rubs me the wrong way.
That being said I might give it another go now that I realized I don't lose too much efficiency if I choose supbar talents that I enjoy instead of loathe.

[Kaver]

Okay, this is getting absurd. What is Blizzards plan with Hunter, they know the problems, they have been well documented. Even accepting the obivous problems like MM being clunky as all hell and Survival lack of a defined niche, surely they can at least acknowledge that the talents need a massive revamp, MM has at least 2 dead rows where there is a clearly defined best choice in all situations and 2 extremely niche choices that no sane person would choose for general play.

Surely a single dev post on what they actually think hunters should be doing would be nice. Is MM supposed to be a single build spec or is there some unicorn version of the spec where all teh talent choices are reasonably viable we are not seeing?

This is why Blizzard should stop making all these secondary borrowed power systems BEFORE they have actually fixed our classes. In BFA we had a talents, azerite traits and essences. They were all extremely unbalanced. We had both a lot of dead talents and azerite traits. Why have 2 bad systems on top of each instead of just making 1 good system. Make classes fun and talents matter. If Blizzard can achieve that THEN they can start to make secondary systems. But it makes no sense to make a new system before the existing one is working.

[Sondrelk]

This is why Blizzard should stop making all these secondary borrowed power systems BEFORE they have actually fixed our classes. In BFA we had a talents, azerite traits and essences. They were all extremely unbalanced. We had both a lot of dead talents and azerite traits. Why have 2 bad systems on top of each instead of just making 1 good system. Make classes fun and talents matter. If Blizzard can achieve that THEN they can start to make secondary systems. But it makes no sense to make a new system before the existing one is working.

Blizzard is definitely guilty of fixing classes in post with essences, though at least most of the classes seem to be doing fine now that there are less secondary powerscaling.

Talents and secondary systems should be a spice on top of the meat and potatoes of the base spec. The base doesnt have to be anything too fancy, but it does need to feel fully realized so whatever is added on top compliments the core rotation and doesnt just patch it up.

The problem I have banged on about for MM specifically is the distinct lack of a core that the talents and secondary systems can build on. It might be Aimed Shot I suppose, though in that case the talents are absolutely horrid at actually complimenting it.

[Pigglix]

I would be more than happy to keep playing BM in Shadowlands. I don’t get why most of you guys would want to switch to MM? Marksman feels unfinished, the rotation is just weird.

What is it about BM that alot of you don’t like? I am curious.

BM has alot of downtime, i dislike the theme of the spec.

I play hunter to be an archer/gunslinger. Not some zookeeper that hangs with pets 100% of time.

I want a class that let me be like the windrunners sisters, or shokia, or many other physical ranged characters that arent tied to pets/nature. That's why i pick MM, because the lack of other options.

Mechanical pets helped a bit with the problem i have with the BM theme....but still...MM is still the most fitting for what i want and enjoy.

[pawsz]

BM has alot of downtime, i dislike the theme of the spec.

I play hunter to be an archer/gunslinger. Not some zookeeper that hangs with pets 100% of time.

I want a class that let me be like the windrunners sisters, or shokia, or many other physical ranged characters that arent tied to pets/nature. That's why i pick MM, because the lack of other options.

Mechanical pets helped a bit with the problem i have with the BM theme....but still...MM is still the most fitting for what i want and enjoy.

I play BM when I want to turn my brain off/focus on mechanics. Its pretty much as dumb to play as DH, really fucking dumb.
MM just plays like shit atm, super clunky and just feels terrible, needs to be much more fluid.
SV is a lot of fun but needs a few fixes (serpent sting needs refresh too often etc)

[Kaver]

What is it about BM that alot of you don’t like? I am curious.

BM is fun during progress because it allows you to put maximum focus on raid mechanics, but after progression it just gets boring very quickly. In my opinion.

[Uko]

I would be more than happy to keep playing BM in Shadowlands. I don’t get why most of you guys would want to switch to MM? Marksman feels unfinished, the rotation is just weird.

What is it about BM that alot of you don’t like? I am curious.

Pet ai being hot garbage a lot of the time is my main complaint. If you dont use macros to micromanage your pet they just kinda derp around. Its infinitely better now than it was in the past but they still bug out on terrain and path wonky sometimes. I would imagine that not having to deal with a pet is a big part of the draw toward MM.

[Sunslayer]

Hunters were always in an odd spot. Pre Legion there were 3 ranged specs available and you would just use whatever was the best for the current patch. All three played

Makes me wonder if you actually played Hunter then. I don't know a single Hunter that did this. I played SV from Wrath to end of WoD. Never played BM and messed with MM rarely but never liked the play style.

Same goes for other Hunters I knew. Many were nothing but MM 24/7 same for my sister in law that only ever played BM.

[Daieon]

I feel like you didn't actually play hunter. In cata I clearly remember playing SV first tier, MM in Firelands, and SV again in DS. and In MoP all 3 specs had a moment, albeit BM was very short. In WoD SV and MM both had great use in Highmaul, BrF had BM and SV shining hella bright, and HFC had MM as top dog. It wasn't until Legion/BFA where we started to have these trends of 1 spec for such a long time.

[threads]

I feel like you didn't actually play hunter. In cata I clearly remember playing SV first tier, MM in Firelands, and SV again in DS. and In MoP all 3 specs had a moment, albeit BM was very short. In WoD SV and MM both had great use in Highmaul, BrF had BM and SV shining hella bright, and HFC had MM as top dog. It wasn't until Legion/BFA where we started to have these trends of 1 spec for such a long time.

blizz completely fucked up hunters. should have never made a melee spec or revamped MM so heavily. doesnt help that almost every SV main now is a complete retard.

[Sondrelk]

blizz completely fucked up hunters. should have never made a melee spec or revamped MM so heavily. doesnt help that almost every SV main now is a complete retard.

A melee spec is fine, they just should ahve done it to BM, not Survival.
But man is MM fucked, I am honestly expecting the WoD Demonology "We don't want you to play this spec" post any day now.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

blizz completely fucked up hunters. should have never made a melee spec or revamped MM so heavily. doesnt help that almost every SV main now is a complete retard.

SV is way more fun than ranged SV ever was.

[threads]

SV is way more fun than ranged SV ever was.

its so fun its the least played spec in the game for 4 years

[Kaver]

its so fun its the least played spec in the game for 4 years

I agree that survival should be ranged. Hunter is a ranged class. It's what people expect. When you join a group as a hunter people will assume that you are ranged.

However, I do not agree that fun = popular when it comes to specs in WoW. I have played BM in BFA because it is effective. It allows me to focus on hard raid/dungeon mechanics while not having to worry about low performance. But the spec itself is not very fun. It's effective.

[Fullmetal89]

I do not agree that fun = popular when it comes to specs in WoW.

I think his point is that if it was fun more people would play it, even if it performed poorly. I'll reiterate what others have said; the fundamental problem with SV is that it is a melee spec for a historically ranged class in a melee heavy game. Hunter, outside of BM, feels like Blizzards neglected abomination of a child. Taken out of the house and locked up in a shed out of sight, out mind.

[Kaver]

I think his point is that if it was fun more people would play it, even if it performed poorly.

Yes that was his/her point. But I disagree. Players seem to mostly care about the effectiveness of specs in my experience. Hence why BM and Havoc DH are so popular. Personally I think Survival is a pretty fun spec but I would never play it because it is simply not effective enough compared to BM or potentially MM. It doesn't "get the job done" in the same way.

And when we join groups people will always assume we are ranged. So playing Survival would also mean you would have to deal with people asking why you're not playing BM everytime you join a group. I don't think the fun of the specs matters nearly as much as the effectiveness of the specs.

Also, I think a lot of people just think it is fun to win. They don't care how it is done. They just want to win.