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  1. #101
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Science can determine what sort of conditions are needed to sustain human civilization, and if you think the current changes won't affect it... oh boy.

    But hey, Siberia and Greenland will survive, so i'm sure it'll all okay.
    You realize science isn't predicting civilizational decline, right?

  2. #102
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    You realize science isn't predicting civilizational decline, right?
    No, but it is predicting entirely avoidable challenges that can stress a civilization to the breaking point.

    But keep on insisting that we can just keep cutting down all our trees to put up Moai.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #103
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The GDP isn't a civilizational success metric, lol. For fuck's sake, capitalism has given people brain worms.
    It is very common to gauge success based on GDP. You're a lefty though so I fully understand you don't care about production.

  4. #104
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    1) Most countries today are postcolonial (including the US) and aren't a valid sample since what defines colonialism in its modern sense is being racist and exploitative.

    2) Ethnic caste systems based on skin color of the sort that has typified western colonialism is a historical exception and not the way most ingroup/outgroup distinctions have been drawn.

    Y'all are just trying to justify shitty government by pretending that is the norm when it demonstrably has not been; then again, like I said the American understanding of history is based on fiction, not fact. Lul.
    Colonialism is just one of a many in a long line of inter-group conflict and conquest based on an arbitrary division, which is what I have been getting at. There will always be an 'ism that is used to divide and promote conflict.

    Government is always shitty to a portion of the people under its control, its a very subjective statement. It is clear your understanding of history is as fiction based as you claim American understanding is.

  5. #105
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    It is very common to gauge success based on GDP.
    Oh? Commonly gauged by who.

    You're a lefty though so I fully understand you don't care about production.
    The irony in you spending pages criticising others for ad hominem arguments and trotting out this nonsense. Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  6. #106
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Who gives a fuck about history? This is the modern era, and I still don't see how that excuses any form of systemic racism in any country.
    History tells you how you got here, and how the future is likely to play out.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Colonialism is just one of a many in a long line of inter-group conflict and conquest based on an arbitrary division, which is what I have been getting at. There will always be an 'ism that is used to divide and promote conflict.
    So as usual, truisms that are about as useful as "everything that isn't an orange is a non-orange".

    Government is always shitty to a portion of the people under its control, its a very subjective statement. It is clear your understanding of history is as fiction based as you claim American understanding is.
    It's only subjective if you're in the business of trying to warp the truth in order to justify an agenda such as the perpetuation of a specific ideology - i.e. capitalism. This is why capitalists have both a hard on for technology but simultaneously despise scientists; because the latter aren't bound to produce results that automatically agree with the former's ideological dicta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    It is very common to gauge success based on GDP. You're a lefty though so I fully understand you don't care about production.
    dont worry about climate change the gdp is a record levels

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    No, but it is predicting entirely avoidable challenges that can stress a civilization to the breaking point.

    But keep on insisting that we can just keep cutting down all our trees to put up Moai.
    Seeing even a glimpse of the bigger picture is not within PC2 capabilities.

    After all, only about 600 mio people live in areas just 10m above sea level and shipping is responsible for more than 90% of trade between countries.

    Obviously rising sea levels will have no impact and will not lead to civilizational decline. Safe harbors stay safe forever regardless of sea levels or weather patterns.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Seeing even a glimpse of the bigger picture is not within PC2 capabilities.

    After all, only about 600 mio people live in areas just 10m above sea level and shipping is responsible for more than 90% of trade between countries.

    Obviously rising sea levels will have no impact and will not lead to civilizational decline. Safe harbors stay safe forever regardless of sea levels or weather patterns.
    Hey our staple crops only have very marginal temperature tolerances but it's totally okay if the global temperature changes marginall-- oh....
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #111
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Hey our staple crops only have very marginal temperature tolerances but it's totally okay if the global temperature changes marginall-- oh....
    We just build huge climatized greenhouses to keep overproducing crops for export.. oh.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  12. #112
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    History tells you how you got here, and how the future is likely to play out.
    That nothing will change, how is that a good thing?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    We just build huge climatized greenhouses to keep overproducing crops for export.. oh.
    No but we can't plan for the future because we can't predict the future, you see. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #114
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    dont worry about climate change the gdp is a record levels
    Bezos gaining more money is all that matters.

  15. #115
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    So as usual, truisms that are about as useful as "everything that isn't an orange is a non-orange".



    It's only subjective if you're in the business of trying to warp the truth in order to justify an agenda such as the perpetuation of a specific ideology - i.e. capitalism. This is why capitalists have both a hard on for technology but simultaneously despise scientists; because the latter aren't bound to produce results that automatically agree with the former's ideological dicta.
    "Anything that isn't a socialist utopia is bad."

    Anything to do with human viewpoints is subjective, only the narrow minded think that their opinions are objective.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    No but we can't plan for the future because we can't predict the future, you see. /s
    Right, I always forget that, every year when winter comes I am surprised because it's cold again and that was just unpredictable.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  17. #117
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    That nothing will change, how is that a good thing?
    You are really stuck on absolutes....

  18. #118
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    "Anything that isn't a socialist utopia is bad."
    Shocking, the idea that governments that are not founded on the public good might in fact be bad.... is a thing.

    Anything to do with human viewpoints is subjective, only the narrow minded think that their opinions are objective.
    Cool; we're not talking about human viewpoints, we're talking about human outcomes which are - again - only subjective if one calls things like egalitarianism or the dignity of life into question. Which isn't a very flattering commentary regarding the person making said arguments, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #119
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    "Anything that isn't a socialist utopia is bad."

    Anything to do with human viewpoints is subjective, only the narrow minded think that their opinions are objective.
    Must be great to hold no strong political views.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You are really stuck on absolutes....
    And your stuck on denying the reality of systemic racism and wealth inquality. Gee, I wonder why it does not bother you.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Shocking, the idea that governments that are not founded on the public good might in fact be bad.... is a thing.



    Cool; we're not talking about human viewpoints, we're talking about human outcomes which are - again - only subjective if one calls things like egalitarianism or the dignity of life into question. Which isn't a very flattering commentary regarding the person making said arguments, either.
    That is an opinion.

    The very importance of egalitarianism and dignity of life is subjective, based on one's accepted mores and taboos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Must be great to hold no strong political views.

    - - - Updated - - -


    And your stuck on denying the reality of systemic racism and wealth inquality. Gee, I wonder why it does not bother you.
    My statement does not preclude strong political views.

    Show me where I deny the existence of systemic racism.

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