its not the what its the why and how. not having the optimal choice for m+ or pvp because i have it on raid is inexcusable.
Do you also consider azerite gold respect cost good? or how the legendaries and artifacts and corruptions and azerite and essences all get the same treatment and its not random, but pretending while its planned to fix problems they create later in the expac to maintain a curve on people's interest?
Last edited by Popokolara; 2020-09-12 at 09:48 PM.
Mythic raiding is an unfortunate design mistake on Blizzard's part. Bigger mistake than covenants, legiondaries or what have you. An RPG game - if it truly wants to be an RPG - needs this big leeway (that heroic raiding gives), exactly because people will want to make thematic decisions that are often sub-optimal. The moment Blizz created Mythic raiding, they also created this dipuste we're having right now. Sadly, there's no going back. But claiming that covenants will somehow make normal/heroic raiders life a pain is a huge stretch. In reality, this will affect very few - and I feel for them, but they are still few.
100% this, their current described intent - which i dont buy - is incompatible with mythic. On their own covenant locks would be a cool idea in another rpg. Btw you know when i would buy their whole return to rpg scheme? if it was permanent or at least tier permanency. Man i would actually enjoy that shit. horrible choice for an mmorpg but damn it would be ballsy.
@SirCowdog: case in point:
So when you take a hard look at the covenant system its really one of many little ways blizzard trying to infuse vanilla philosophies back into retail. The covenant system specifically is a lot like a mini vanilla talent tree which is usually mostly a bunch of passive bonuses to existing spells and then a couple actives.
Back in vanilla that's what effectively made up a spec, or a sub-class with the current terminology blizzard is using for covenants. Blizzard is increasingly pushing us to wholly invest in and identify as 1 spec for the last couple xpacs. So to them this is just a way to give us a sub-class inside of a spec, or a spec spec...
I find this entire idea flawed with how current class design works, but I can see how they're coming to that conclusion... even though in modern retail wow it amounts to what the modern game considers a couple talents within a spec and some buffs to the damage of specific spells.
That's a big part of peoples issue though.. this is not a non-cosmetic choice, this is a cosmetic choice, and a gameplay choice, and a power choice, all under 1 single choice. People want those choices decoupled from each other.
Also in games like these the consequence is simply to reroll your character to make the correct choice. Its simply a matter of how much of your time the game is deciding to waste. Its the same exact idea as an ARPG that has permanent stat allocation vs one that lets you reset your stats. At the end of the day they both let you reset your stats, the former just makes you waste a few hours to do it. But if you care, then you'll do it, and if you don't care, then it never was a consequence in the first place.
And now they're under pressure from some elements of their audience to actually let us have choice instead of putting the entirety of several different systems and aspects of choice under one single choice... and to also let us have enough flexibility to actually experiment and change things up and have fun with the game instead of them trying to pigeon hole us into smaller and smaller buckets that they either intend for us to stay in for an entire xpac or they intend for us to reroll through to experience other ones just to take up more of our time.
I just made a post to you saying the opposite, in that they shouldn't need to listen to random youtubers or twitch personalities... and that they should be learning from their own mistakes... and somehow you got the polar opposite from it?
Like I said... they went through this already repeatedly these last 2 xpacs. They keep trying to do the same thing and it keeps blowing up in their face the exact same way.
..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.
You will live with that too. Just like I lived with 50g a pop for respec back in Vanilla.
I think Blizzard's ultimate mistake was spoonfeeding people for far too long, so they created this toxic atmosphere where some loudmouths are so obsessed with razor thin % differences, that any sort of deviation from causes a wave of foaming at mouth and fainting.
It's good they decide to take a step back, however shy it cuddly it still is.
How does a "casual hexweave crafter" come anywhere near the concept of a professional gamer?
While I don't question that parts of the game should be created to allow players of all types to have fun. I do have doubts about creating umbrella systems in the performance-based area of the game that needlessly force conformity to a casual level. (More on this in my reply to MoanaLisa)
Path of Exile is probably the strongest example I can give in favor of designing for min-maxing.
Granted, WoW is not POE. The playerbase is different. WoW has a more broad spectrum of players from Casual to Hardcore. However, POE is a perfect example of how min-maxing gameplay and design can absolutely be incredibly fun and engaging, both in terms of raw calculation of performance, and the actual execution of the gameplay.
Did he actually say that? o_O
did i say i cant live with it? no. It was never about survival as i said multiple times. Are you capable of having a discussion without jumping off to imaginary hyperboles? or is that the only way you can hold your precious paper thin narrative bubble?
You are talking with me and i am not foaming or fainting.
so fine go attack the shadowplay on your wall and argue against those toxic imaginary demons.
Blizzards got a lot of fantastic design in there, they also have a ton of bad design that undermines the good.
Covenants are a good example of both, because there is a lot of good in there, and then an arbitrary choice to undermine a lot of what could have made a much more compelling system.
..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.
go at the 39.22 timestamp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEcXvDDtarc
And yet THOUSANDS of players are constantly yelling "Go go go!" or wondering why players in their group are so slow, or flipping them crap because their DPS is bad. All of M+ is based almost entirely on speed running to beat a timer, FFS!
It's not always a simple case of not beating an enrage timer. It's the perception of DPS being the most important part of a group. Which is not to say that proper execution of mechanics isn't important! Ask any combat trainer in almost any field and I guarantee you they'll tell you that smooth is better than fast. But that's not how the vast majority of the WoW playerbase thinks.
And I'm not even saying that perception is correct. But I AM saying that the perception is very real, and it effects how a large portion of the playerbase views the game, and gauges their enjoyment. Optimization is a VERY important part of the game. Blizzard creating a system that curtails that, or ignores it, or tries to force it into something it isn't.....doesn't work. Or at least they haven't been able to make it work the past couple of expansions.
But here we are again, with Blizzard repeating the same mistake.
I think I speak for everyone* when I say that the only TRUE endgame is transmog. Everything else is just a excuse for its existence. Therefor covenant abilities DPS increase is meaningless.
*(and by everyone I mean literally everyone in the world.Or maybe just me idk)
I don't want solutions. I want to be mad. - PoorlyDrawnlines
This will follow the usual iterative process. I don't think anyone can fairly expect them to conjure perfection from a get go.
As usual they will see how it goes, make adjustments, introduce new stuff down the road and when SL is done and gone, we might see some of it incorporated in whatever reskin+evolution system v5.0 they conjure in 10.0.
It's more of the usual. This time their theme is customization, guess they want to mix things up a bit and I'm cool with that, personally.
This is a gross misrepresentation of the people giving feedback, and quite honestly you should be ashamed for trying to make it appear that way.
These people aren't screaming and yelling. They're carefully considering, testing on the Alpha, Beta, and PTS. Then they're giving an honest opinion based on a level of experience and understanding of the game that most players don't have.
They aren't being narrow-minded. Go watch Preach's videos about covenants. He and Ion had a VERY interesting and civil conversation about the issue.
have you noticed your pattern? i answer to specific things you say - you dont or even comment on it. Your reply now was leave your feels out. what feels?
100% agree and never dissagreed - for the 6th time? - its not a survivability issue.
Do you have any more irrelevant or non typed sentences you do want to argue against.
Better yet goodbye.
I actually think that this beta did backfire there somewhat.
I and others are part of CE raider invites and it does not take a genius to figure out that CE raiders will be very critical of a system that does not allow them 100% optimal base everywhere.
After playing beta extensively, I believe the generated noise far surpasses the actual state of things. Overall, SL so far, as I seen it - is one of the most player friendly expansions in past several cycles. The negativity generated is completely disproportionate to real state of things there.
Unfortunately this noise causes people to "pre"-hate the whole deal, despite them not really even knowing what they are talking about. There are many here making doomsday scenarios, but not even having beta access to see this for themselves.
- - - Updated - - -
So it's a feels issue, gotcha.