What broke the machine of death, I think I solved it.

[Powerogue]

Maybe? Even just the disruption of the souls she had previously hoarded for herself plus the surge from the faction war would be enough to throw things out of balance.

[Niwes]

I'm still almost entirely convinced they're gonna pull a Kerrigan with Sylvanas and use her to defeat and take on the role of a not intrinsically evil jailer, which to me is bullshit since she's spent the last couple expansion literally being the mustache twirling villain.

hehehe, really hope they are so crazy bad and try this. would be so funny to watch that cheap shit show and the following shit storm. even Blizzard can not be that shitty.

i mean, turning

„kill all night elves! burn the tree! kill all, women and childs! hunt and kill saurfang. fuck tha horde!“

into

„oh, redeem... blah blah... for the greater good... sylvi for president.“

is really deep dive low skill lvl.

even Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars Episode 3 (transmuting from Anakin into most darkest, Jedi childs killing monster machine in 20 minutes) would be amazed by this.

but this would be that shitty, that no popcorn would be big enough for that comedy show.

so, i am totally +++ for that.

- - - Updated - - -

If anyone want a quick reminder of how time works in Shadowlands then here's the interview:



- - - Updated - - -

Also this interview about the Machine of Death:


All it says is "Legion timeframe" and that Sylvanus "recognized and had a hand in".

lol, i clicked the second video, because i expected some funny internet shit with a wow designer and the musician Johnny Cash.

i was bored about Johnny Cashs (this guy must have happy name times) pseudo marketing blah blah (aka „lets tell ppl how deeply we are connected with all that great deep dived stuff“) after 3mins and stopped watching. but yeah, whatever.

[thunterman]

The Legion chronology needs to be cleared up a bit.

So we have Ysera arriving in Ardenweald as "one of the last souls" freshly as we quest through the zone.

At the same time we have Ursoc being there BEFORE the drought started but he also died AFTER Ysera in the actual game.
The only explanation for this would be that the Emerald Nightmare raid happened BEFORE the ending of the Val'sharah storyline, but that is simply impossible as Xavius had to be alive for Ysera's corruption and we deal with him in the raid, not to even mention that we see Ysera's "ghost" at the end of the raid in the Emerald Dream.

We kill Ursoc in the dream - which is where he went after he died in the mortal realm. Killing him in the dream sent him to Ardenweald. We then see Ysera in the dream at the end of EN, with the weird, unexplained void orb hidden at the back.

My guess? Ysera's corruption either carried over to the dream, or she was corrupted anew after arriving. She may have been culled, sending her to Ardenweald, at a later point in time.

That works.

[cparle87]

The Legion chronology needs to be cleared up a bit.

So we have Ysera arriving in Ardenweald as "one of the last souls" freshly as we quest through the zone.

At the same time we have Ursoc being there BEFORE the drought started but he also died AFTER Ysera in the actual game.
The only explanation for this would be that the Emerald Nightmare raid happened BEFORE the ending of the Val'sharah storyline, but that is simply impossible as Xavius had to be alive for Ysera's corruption and we deal with him in the raid, not to even mention that we see Ysera's "ghost" at the end of the raid in the Emerald Dream.

So Ursoc arriving in Ardenweald way before the drought even started simply does not make sense with the rest of the continuity.

Also, there needs to be an official confirmation about the order the Broken Shore zones happened in the actual story.
Did Stormheim happen before or after Ysera's death? Even if they happened at the same time, did the lantern break before or after her death?

The fact that the Broken Shore has no official chronology makes it impossible to theorize what exactly happeend that broke Death.

My understanding was the starting zones: Val, Azsuna, Stormheim, Highmountain are happening simultaneously, as is shown by you being able to do them in any order and some zones referencing things that happen in others. Like troops who say they were on their way to help Sylvanas after she went missing in Stormheim showing up in Azsuna. Then later Suramar happens, seguaying into Nighthold, Broken Shore, and so on. Ysera died pretty early on in Legion, before the intro starting stories were finished. It's possible Ursoc was an exception to the "all souls go to the Maw" thing due to his strong bond with Ardenweald and nature. Also the whole drought thing is vague. It's stated that souls started going to the Maw incorrectly a while ago, but things only completely broke sometime after Ysera.

[HitRefresh]

Helya isn't dead tho. She is alive and active as proven in BFA.

Isn't she in the Maw intro? It doesn't matter if she's alive, she's with the Jailer

[UndedoKoleda]

The way I see it, is that the "machine of death" broke when the Arbiter went unconscious. The Machine of Death - The natural order of processing souls in the Shadowlands(everything going through the Arbiter). If I'm correct, the MoD started to break long before Legion, at the end of WotLK is as far as we can trace it.

I think that the event that really made it "stop" was not caused by us, or anything else at Azeroth. I doubt that it happened at random and also that the Jailer had to rely on something happening on a single of the countless worlds.

It was machinated by the Jailer, who just waited for the right moment to proceed with his plan. Who knows how long did it take him to orchestrate the entire thing. The right moment might have been either the deal Sylvanas struck with Helya. Or maybe Helya's defeat by the hands of the champions - an unexpected turn of events, that forced Jailer's hand sooner than anticipated(maybe something to do with Odyn?). Or maybe something entirely different that happened on a different world or in the Shadowlands itself.

[bagina]

This idea just came to me. Not even sure if it fits the timeline, but oh well

So it wasn't an event on Azeroth that broke the machine of death, it was a *lack* of an event that caused it. "The event" being the death of Azeroth from the hands of Sargeras. The Jailer waited for Sargeras to kill Azeroth. He was anticipating it. It would be an easy way of gaining access to a world-soul with minimal waste. So essentialy Sargeras killing Azeroth was the plan A. When that failed, the Jailer switched to plan B, aka taking matters into his own hands. So he sent his forces to neutralize the Arbiter, and I just thought of this, maybe using some an artifact the Primus had forged for him. "Only an Eternal One can defeat another Eternal One" or some other BS. Maybe there's a core of the Arbiter stashed away in some box, somwhere in the Thorgast.

[UndedoKoleda]

This idea just came to me. Not even sure if it fits the timeline, but oh well

So it wasn't an event on Azeroth that broke the machine of death, it was a *lack* of an event that caused it. "The event" being the death of Azeroth from the hands of Sargeras. The Jailer waited for Sargeras to kill Azeroth. He was anticipating it. It would be an easy way of gaining access to a world-soul with minimal waste. So essentialy Sargeras killing Azeroth was the plan A. When that failed, the Jailer switched to plan B, aka taking matters into his own hands. So he sent his forces to neutralize the Arbiter, and I just thought of this, maybe using some an artifact the Primus had forged for him. "Only an Eternal One can defeat another Eternal One" or some other BS. Maybe there's a core of the Arbiter stashed away in some box, somwhere in the Thorgast.

That is a good possibility, but it would make more sense if he broke it in anticipation to get a world soul, because if the Arbiter was still functional, she would have hardly missed an entire world soul(even if they do go to the Shadowlands when they die, it would be an extremely rare occurrence and there is no chance the Arbiter would miss it the same way she missed Arthas being thrown into the Maw, for instance).

Given the recent info about Dreadlords being loyal only to Death, perhaps their agents in the Legion warned him about the possible turn of events and that made him make his move. No matter the outcome, he would have gotten a world soul- either Argus or Azeroth. Win/win for him. The perfect time to get the Arbiter out of the game.

And now that you mentioned it, I'm strongly inclined to believe that the disappearance of Primus has everything to do with the Arbiter rendered useless. Somehow.

[Garymorilix]

My understanding was the starting zones: Val, Azsuna, Stormheim, Highmountain are happening simultaneously, as is shown by you being able to do them in any order and some zones referencing things that happen in others. Like troops who say they were on their way to help Sylvanas after she went missing in Stormheim showing up in Azsuna. Then later Suramar happens, seguaying into Nighthold, Broken Shore, and so on. Ysera died pretty early on in Legion, before the intro starting stories were finished. It's possible Ursoc was an exception to the "all souls go to the Maw" thing due to his strong bond with Ardenweald and nature. Also the whole drought thing is vague. It's stated that souls started going to the Maw incorrectly a while ago, but things only completely broke sometime after Ysera.

I get that they are happening "simultaniously" but that is the issue.

We don't know the time-frame of events DURING the zones. Like I said, did Ysera die before or after Sylvanas and Genn broke that lantern? During? We don't know.

This makes it very very very difficult to theorize which specific event actually broke death.
At the same time, this makes it very easy for Blizzard to choose which event it actually was.

But no matter which one it was, as we don't have a chronology for these zones at all, all the theory crafting feels meaningless.

[Aphrel]

Helya isn't dead tho. She is alive and active as proven in BFA.

she is in the maw in shadowlands on the beta atleast.

[Engal]

All of this is assuming that WE did something to break the machine of death.

With the revelation of the Nathrezim / Venthyr behind all of those conflicts, I may guess that someone in the Legion interfered and made the Legion loose AND did something that put the Arbiter AFK.

On the Broken Shore, Vol'jin did say that another force was at play and that the felguard strike " passed his defensives barrier " and I guess it was some shady death Nathrezim power that was there.

Somehow, I guess the attack on Azeroth was a distraction for the Venthyr to make the Jailer's free by putting the Arbiter's asleep. They did something that impacted the Realm of Death, and I guess they were in cahoot with Sylvanas who works for them after having met the Jailer in the maw the first time.


The Jailer wants the soul of Azeroth.
The Venthyr are playing the Legion
The Dreadlord would never have allowed the Legion or Sargeras to win, while preparing their next move.

[bagina]

That is a good possibility, but it would make more sense if he broke it in anticipation to get a world soul, because if the Arbiter was still functional, she would have hardly missed an entire world soul

Oh right, good point. Absolutely yeah.

And now that you mentioned it, I'm strongly inclined to believe that the disappearance of Primus has everything to do with the Arbiter rendered useless. Somehow.

Yes, I think so too. I was trying to find the information about how long the Primus has been gone to enforce this theory but didn't find any concrete information. I'm interested if the Primus disappeared before the Arbiter was broken or if it was the other way around.

[Raven]

didnt we kill a titan?

A titan soul is probably a shitload of soul-energy. That would definitly upset the balance a bit too.

But Titans dont go to Shadowland when they die.

[Squigglyo]

But Titans dont go to Shadowland when they die.

Says who?

The Panetheon was killed by Sargares but only their physical bodies, their souls wernt 'killed'.
Argus however, after we killed his physical body, his 'soul' was used as energy to beat/bind Sargares, effectively killing him properly.
Argus is the only Titan we have actually seen killed, is there any lore that would say their souls arent treated like every other soul once its actually 'killed'?

[Nachtigal]

One would imagine it was a warning to make players aware that there were still lingering connections to the void.

That was it’s only purpose?

[cparle87]

I get that they are happening "simultaniously" but that is the issue.

We don't know the time-frame of events DURING the zones. Like I said, did Ysera die before or after Sylvanas and Genn broke that lantern? During? We don't know.

This makes it very very very difficult to theorize which specific event actually broke death.
At the same time, this makes it very easy for Blizzard to choose which event it actually was.

But no matter which one it was, as we don't have a chronology for these zones at all, all the theory crafting feels meaningless.

Is there any indication that the lamp had anything to do with it or is that just fan speculation?

[Engal]

Is there any indication that the lamp had anything to do with it or is that just fan speculation?

Fan speculation and honestly, if Helya gave something to Sylvanas that could break the machine of death and help the jailer ( remember that helya and sylvanas works directly or indirectly for the jailer )Helya would have broken it a long time ago or Sylvanas would have done it.


This theory is ridiculous, unless the jailer mindgamed sylvanas into thinking that would help her people and in the end planned for it to be destroyed somehow to get some help, whose in turn would have made sylvanas angry because she was played upon.

[Overlordd]

The Legion chronology needs to be cleared up a bit.

So we have Ysera arriving in Ardenweald as "one of the last souls" freshly as we quest through the zone.

At the same time we have Ursoc being there BEFORE the drought started but he also died AFTER Ysera in the actual game.
The only explanation for this would be that the Emerald Nightmare raid happened BEFORE the ending of the Val'sharah storyline, but that is simply impossible as Xavius had to be alive for Ysera's corruption and we deal with him in the raid, not to even mention that we see Ysera's "ghost" at the end of the raid in the Emerald Dream.

So Ursoc arriving in Ardenweald way before the drought even started simply does not make sense with the rest of the continuity.

Also, there needs to be an official confirmation about the order the Broken Shore zones happened in the actual story.
Did Stormheim happen before or after Ysera's death? Even if they happened at the same time, did the lantern break before or after her death?

The fact that the Broken Shore has no official chronology makes it impossible to theorize what exactly happeend that broke Death.

Lmao god damn, that's just inconsistency on a whole new level.

[Aucald]

Ysera and Ursoc died relatively close to one another - the only thing that Ursoc's presence in Ardenweald reveals is that it wasn't specifically the destruction of the Soulcage that caused the machinery of death to break. In that sense, the leveling zone chronology in Legion is somewhat immaterial - because the cleaning of the Nightmare and the death of Ursoc would have happened after all the leveling zones to begin with. I'm now tentatively on board with the theory that Helya's death in Helheim was the actual cause of the system breaking - although why and how have yet to explored (and are probably stories upcoming in Shadowlands itself).

[Garymorilix]

Is there any indication that the lamp had anything to do with it or is that just fan speculation?

This is my whole point.

Maybe there isn't. I have no idea because I have no idea what the chronology is for these events.

I am pretty certain myself that one of the events in Stormheim was responsilbe for breaking Death, as none of the other zones' storylines have anything "major" happening that we could relate to Death.
In Stormheim we have Sylvanas dealing with Helya, two major characters working for the Jailer. If they did not do it somehow then who else did?