Is survival hunter the worst class revamp ever made?

[Dakhath]

I really enjoy the idea of Survival, but I'm someone who only enjoys melee classes. I've mained a Warrior since the beginning and I'm not sure how I'd feel if they changed one of the dps specs into a ranged spec, so I can definitely empathize with long time Hunter mains who lost a spec they love.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes.

10charscryinginMoPSurvival...

[Krekal]

[No, outlaw is worse, way worse

[shoegazing]

Subtlety Rogue in Legion is the worst.

Subtlety was an all time legendary and iconic PvP masterpiece that was also quite fun in PvE in recent expansions before Legion. A symphonic masterpiece of burst and control. The spec played by Neilyo, Reckful, and Pikaboo.

Then they introduced a dumbed down new class fantasy out of left field, based around cringey "nothing personnel kid" shadow magic. They deleted huge swaths of the spellbook, including iconic Rogue buttons like Gouge that I had since dinging level 6 in early 2005, not to mention all bleeds and poisons and other classic and iconic Rogue gameplay elements.

They took the most interesting and dynamic CD in the games history, Shadow Dance, and made it a mundane piece of the rotation. They stripped away so much complexity and depth to make gameplay space for stupid, spammable Shadowstrike.

Legion Subtlety is the worst, and least asked for, and most completely out of touch redesign of all time, and nothing else comes close. I spit on those responsible who are the myopic ruiners of everything that is holy and truly some of the most incompetent morons.

Class designers, if you happen to read this: I spit on you from the very bottom of my sneaky Rogue heart you inept ruinous bastards. Thanks for ruining the class I loved since early 2005 and taking all the magic out of Azeroth for me you unholy scumbags.

[threads]

according to random internet forum people SV is the best spec ever made, yet none want to actually main it.

it was a shitty revamp that killed the spec and the class has only had 2 specs since.

[Leakage]

according to random internet forum people SV is the best spec ever made, yet none want to actually main it.

it was a shitty revamp that killed the spec and the class has only had 2 specs since.

It's sad seeing the numbers.

Using logs, 92% of all hunters in Heroic Nyalotha are BM, 6% are MM, and 2% are Survival. If you go to mythic, it is 97% BM, 2% MM, and 1% Survival.

[Razion]

I loved Survival going melee. It's the only reason I have a Hunter at all atm.

[Stormykitten]

Yep, but for me, hunter numbers are very hard to read. Like, BM is one of the best ranged specs in the game just because it has a modern full movement 'caster' model, and that's not counting all the other hunter perks it shares with the other two; on top of it, it's THE pet spec so that means it's already going to be popular across all hunter players. Both of the other specs just can't compete if all you go for is the results. So while Surv is probably always going to be lowish, Marks suffers just as much as Survival does. That's my view of it anyway.

In my dream scenario they would just completely redesign ranged and cease using the movement punishment model, and tie everything around speed & acast animations instead, but since I doubt that will happen I expect BM to dominate until it loses the full mobility. Which again I would be really sad about losing.

[melzas]

If it was the highes dps hunter spec and best for m+ and raiding you would see it everywhere.

Proof? It's the best hunter 2v2 spec. Go arena 1800+ and look up how many surv hunters are there compared to other spec.

[Saltysquidoon]

Sub is probably worse overall but a lot of survival's problems are share with sub.

What's the fantasy? Trapper? dps trap is a talent (and normally shit). Bombs? Talents again. Dots/Bleeds? That's a talent. It's trying to be everything to everyone and it has no focus so it's not really got a strong fantasy. Why is the base kit this amorphous blob with no definition that relies so heavily on talents to be anything?

The Mongoose bite issue. A lot of people didn't like mongoose bite because it's such a weird janky timing window that doesn't always play well in fights. The solution was to stick with it or drop it not the coward solution (and apparently the survival dev's onvly solution) of turning it into a mandatory talent. Basically, now mongoose bite is still core which upsets people who hate it and it eats a talent row which upsets people who like it.

Why is flanking strike a talent? Why does Survival share KC with BM when flanking strike is just a reskined KC?

Why is infusion a talent? it's basically the only 'fun' thing in the spec and the specs only mechanic without mongoose bite.

Melee on a ranged class in a melee unfriendly game with a melee heavy class stack.

[Poppincaps]

Survival used to be a well liked spec by a large portion of the Hunter community and when properly balanced saw a lot of play. They then changed it and now very few hunters play it anymore. So, yes, it objectively the worst class revamp ever made. It's also a very confusing choice. There has never been a new ranged dps spec added to the game, so it was a further insult to all ranged player. Like sure outside of WoW there are plenty of examples of melee fighters that could fit within a hunter archetype, but it was a very bad choice for WoW as the numbers show.

[Evaddon]

Nope, hunters just get super salty at any changes made to their class

[hulkgor]

It's been four years since Legion revamped survival hunters, and since then I've barely seen them. I played this new spec for a while and I found it quite boring and pointless.

What are your thoughts on this spec? Why do you think nobody plays it?

Loved it in Legion.

Hated it in BFA.

I think it's not very popular because hunter mains dont like a melee spec, and other people are just unwilling to give it a go.

But again, i loved its initial iteration, it was a fucking blast to play, and although very punishing on its 'rotation\prio system', it was rewarding when things went well.

[Lucyx]

It's good if you like PvP.

[seamnstr]

It plays really fun in pvp, would still prefer cata-wod MM in pvp instead of current surv. But of the current spec designs surv is best designed from a pvp perspective imo.

[RamenBowl]

Not even close to the worst revamp. It's great fun; most people just don't play it because 1) most Hunter players want to be ranged, and 2) Blizzard didn't give it enough utility to warrant playing it over BM or MM in PvE.

[threads]

If it was the highes dps hunter spec and best for m+ and raiding you would see it everywhere.

Proof? It's the best hunter 2v2 spec. Go arena 1800+ and look up how many surv hunters are there compared to other spec.

it was the highest dps spec in uldir beginning of BFA and 90% of hunters still played BM.

[Biske]

I really enjoy it. I love fighting alongside my kodo on my Tauren. Hunter isn't my main class, though, but survival has been my hunter's spec since it was made into melee (he was MM before that since BC). They should just re-add the old style survival as a 4th spec so people will stop complaining, with black arrow and explosive shot (and also let the melee spec use exotic beasts just like BM because I'm 100% being greedy now).

[Tyris Flare]

The worst part is that it actually has a lot of fun abilities and mechanics like grenades and grappling hooks that are wasted on a spec nobody plays.

[Indil]

yes, it was the worst rework, by far