[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Forogil]

I did read the post you quoted. It's difficult to be certain, because it IS Dribblespek and therefore illogical is a kind and generous word to describe it, but it seems to me both initially and rereading it that he was saying that the EU offered to give the UK a deal matching CETA in exchange for the WA. He says 'offered a Canada deal' not 'offered Canada a deal'. So he wasn't commenting on the terms of CETA, he's saying that unless the UK gets everything in CETA and more from the EU, then the WA is being broken by the EU.

I could be wrong, my brain hurts trying to follow it.

Yes, it is convoluted logic.

And now a bit of advice for anyone new to negotiating any contract who wants to sign a contract for a car, house, or withdrawing from the EU:

If you sign a deal based on your understanding that there will be some additional deal, you make damn sure that understanding is part of the agreement - especially if it is 177 pages long.

#NotLegalAdvice

[Gorsameth]

I'm not a fan of Brexit but it should be noted that the new UK/Japan deal IS actually better for the UK than the EU/Japan deal was, however that's only because the EU one was designed to benefit all nations of the EU whereas the new one was specifically made to benefit England >.>

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IIRC the arbitration panels failings are the entire reason the UK government created this stupid bill, because they claim the EU have broken the terms of the WA but there isn't enough time for the arbitration panel to do anything about it before January so they have no choice but to do this to limit the damage of being forced to leave the EU without a deal.

This means that is it would be next summer by the time the arbitration panel offered a decision/resolution on the UK governments bill and god knows what kind of chaos the UK government will have wrecked by then

Under the EU-Japan deal there was a quota for goods, and the UK could use that quota.

Now that very same quota still exists, but the UK has to wait and see if any of that very same quota is left. And then they can make use of that to retroactively lower tarrifs payed for certain goods.

Previously, you and your friends shared a bag of apples. Now your friends share a bag of apples without you and if any of them aren't hungry you might get an apple.

How is the latter in improvement over the former situation?
The situation is the same, only you now run the risk of getting less and carry all the risk of not knowing if you will get less by the end.

[Slant]

I'm not a fan of Brexit but it should be noted that the new UK/Japan deal IS actually better for the UK than the EU/Japan deal was, however that's only because the EU one was designed to benefit all nations of the EU whereas the new one was specifically made to benefit England >.>

Well, that's debatable if you ask me. But I'm not even interested in that anymore, all the best for the sane people in the UK. So I don't actually want the country to burn. If you guys get something out of this, why not. Doesn't hurt us and there's enough cake for everyone to get some.

I'm just amused at Dribbles' thinking this is in any way the one deal he can present as the reason why Brexit is good. It's a pretty slim booklet of a deal, and the stuff that's in it isn't really groundbreaking, nor exclusive. And certainly not "better" than the EU/Japanese deal, that mere notion is legally impossible.

[LeGin Tufnel]

How are we all doing in here?

Just popped on to express regret for the UK government's current behaviour and hope that EU friends can forgive those who didn't and aren't signing up to this.
@Mayhem from my understanding, I believe you're due a difficult period soon. All the best, mate.

[Slant]

How are we all doing in here?

Just popped on to express regret for the UK government's current behaviour and hope that EU friends can forgive those who didn't and aren't signing up to this.
@Mayhem from my understanding, I believe you're due a difficult period soon. All the best, mate.

There's nothing to forgive, the UK Government is only hurting UK ciitzens. If anything, you have our sympathy that you have to suffer that bullshit. EU has been preparing for a crashout for 4 years now, efforts are being ramped up even more after the signals from Brussels this week. Nobody on our side of the channel cares about Brexit anymore. It's Covid that's got our minds occupied. I'm looking at being in home office for an entire year if this continues (already confirmed until the end of the year). That is affecting me. Brexit? Just a side discussion to take my mind of things. And to make sure people know that Dribbles is full of shit, naturally.

And I'm one of the lucky people whose job can be done from home relatively easily.

[KaPe]

It's kinda funny - thanks to the pandemic I completely forgot that brexit was still a thing and yet it seems that nothing has changed since the very beginning. UK is still claiming it will be perfectly fine, it will negotiate some amazing deal, Boris is doing some silly posturing and Dribbles is being Dribbles.

At least the US is saying that, no, UK won't be getting any deals if they screw this up. *Maybe* this will finally wake someone up ... but I really doubt it. It's amazing that this idiocy is still going on and some people still believe that UK will become stronger after this. Then again, they have dealt with covid *so well* that I guess they decided it's time to finally show EU who's the boss.

[Kallisto]

At least the US is saying that, no, UK won't be getting any deals if they screw this up. *Maybe* this will finally wake someone up ... but I really doubt it. It's amazing that this idiocy is still going on and some people still believe that UK will become stronger after this. Then again, they have dealt with covid *so well* that I guess they decided it's time to finally show EU who's the boss.

They won't wake up, they don't care. Brexiteers are the same people who protest against masks, who among them had people waving the flag of the British Union of Fascists.

[dribbles]

Well done our Boris! This evening the UK government won the vote for ripping up the WA by a huge majority of 77, onto the 2nd reading. Remainers have a mountain to climb to stop it now.

Not long until it lands on HRH Lizzies desk for her signature, the will of the sensible people prevails.

[Xarkan]

Well done our Boris! This evening the UK government won the vote for ripping up the WA by a huge majority of 77, onto the 2nd reading. Remainers have a mountain to climb to stop it now.

Not long until it lands on HRH Lizzies desk for her signature, the will of the sensible people prevails.

If we ignore that only the insane would make deals with the UK after that that in any way depend on the UK honouring anything...

What he is whining about is entirely of the UKs making to begin with, the UK have an internal issue for which they want a solution, that internal issue needs the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland a certain way.

[Masark]

If we ignore that only the insane would make deals with the UK after that that in any way depend on the UK honouring anything.

What do you mean? You're saying that there are countries that wouldn't be honoured to have a trade deal with the Great And Glorious British Empire On Which The Sun Shall Never Set, even if the UK treats their side of the deal as loo paper?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Well done our Boris! This evening the UK government won the vote for ripping up the WA by a huge majority of 77, onto the 2nd reading. Remainers have a mountain to climb to stop it now.

Not long until it lands on HRH Lizzies desk for her signature, the will of the sensible people prevails.

What, no comment on the fact that the "amazing" trade deal we signed with Japan puts restrictions on state aid, undermining our negotiating position with the EU? Are you planning to ignore that, or hope that we didn't find out?

Taking back control my fucking arse. I wouldn't trust the bunch of incompetents in charge enough to put them in control of my remote.

[Kiri]

What, no comment on the fact that the "amazing" trade deal we signed with Japan puts restrictions on state aid, undermining our negotiating position with the EU? Are you planning to ignore that, or hope that we didn't find out?

Taking back control my fucking arse. I wouldn't trust the bunch of incompetents in charge enough to put them in control of my remote.

Well I mean they just proved that they don't really plan to uphold any restrictions they signed, so Dribbles not caring about that falls perfectly in line with that line of thinking.

[DingDongKing]

What, no comment on the fact that the "amazing" trade deal we signed with Japan puts restrictions on state aid, undermining our negotiating position with the EU? Are you planning to ignore that, or hope that we didn't find out?

Taking back control my fucking arse. I wouldn't trust the bunch of incompetents in charge enough to put them in control of my remote.

Honestly when the OP said that, I just wanted to fucking take a cricket bat to the nearest wall and just smash it.

The stupidity of 'Brexiteers' is just off the fucking charts. Gammons. Every last one of them.

[Slant]

Well I mean they just proved that they don't really plan to uphold any restrictions they signed, so Dribbles not caring about that falls perfectly in line with that line of thinking.

Also wonderfully fits his pattern of being an extreme anarchist that wants as much destruction and mayhem as possible. The way is leading to a hard crashout with maximum damage to the UK economy and society (while at the same time doing damage to the EU economy as well).

It's quite curious to see how readily the UK abandons any resemblence of a modern democracy upholding the rule of law and international treaties. I'm not saying treaties never get broken, it happens and ultimately national law has a natural precedence in that nobody from abroad is going to take part in any elections. But at least pretend you're trying to keep your word...

Of course people will still make deals with the UK, so I don't think there will be severe long term effects. That's just hyperbole. Short term, this basically buries any hope of ever reaching a deal with the EU before time runs out in October. Yes, you have about a month to finalize everything and you just told the EU you won't be held to anything you agreed to, ever. Bottom line, if anyone thinks the integrity of the EU's external border is at any time up for negotiation or flexible is going to be surprised on January 1st when the border comes up.

So, you got 5 months to stockpile your shit and make sure you are keeping eyes on Northern Ireland. Chances for maximum Brexit on January 1st are about 90%, I'd reckon. Good luck to you all, except the likes of Dribbles, of course. Him I wish all the bad things you can imagine. Literally. I'm not even joking.

[Omega10]

Also wonderfully fits his pattern of being an extreme anarchist that wants as much destruction and mayhem as possible. The way is leading to a hard crashout with maximum damage to the UK economy and society (while at the same time doing damage to the EU economy as well).

It's quite curious to see how readily the UK abandons any resemblence of a modern democracy upholding the rule of law and international treaties. I'm not saying treaties never get broken, it happens and ultimately national law has a natural precedence in that nobody from abroad is going to take part in any elections. But at least pretend you're trying to keep your word...

Of course people will still make deals with the UK, so I don't think there will be severe long term effects. That's just hyperbole. Short term, this basically buries any hope of ever reaching a deal with the EU before time runs out in October. Yes, you have about a month to finalize everything and you just told the EU you won't be held to anything you agreed to, ever. Bottom line, if anyone thinks the integrity of the EU's external border is at any time up for negotiation or flexible is going to be surprised on January 1st when the border comes up.

So, you got 5 months to stockpile your shit and make sure you are keeping eyes on Northern Ireland. Chances for maximum Brexit on January 1st are about 90%, I'd reckon. Good luck to you all, except the likes of Dribbles, of course. Him I wish all the bad things you can imagine. Literally. I'm not even joking.

Meanwhile, EU is flexing its economic muscles.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tear-down...083908077.html

Title: Tear down your barriers, EU says after summit with China's Xi

The gist of the article is that EU is making deals with China, and working hard to get China to change some of its behaviors.

Excerpts:

European Union leaders told Chinese President Xi Jinping on Monday to open up markets, respect minorities and step back from a crackdown in Hong Kong, also asserting that Europe would no longer be taken advantage of in trade.

Anxious to show that the EU will not take sides in a global standoff between China and the United States, German Chancellor Angela Merkel joined the bloc's chief executive and chairman to deliver a tough-talking message to Beijing.

"Europe is a player, not a playing field," European Council President Charles Michel, who chaired the video summit, told reporters in reference to a growing sense in Europe that China has not met its promises to engage in fair and free trade.

EU is coming into its own. It is asserting its independence from the US, and asserting its demands on what it wants from China. Obviously, China negotiates hard. So two big powers will be making deals that effect pretty much the whole world. And should the US completely implode, EU is saying we will be here.

"We are really serious about having access to the Chinese market and tearing down the barriers," European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said at the news conference.

Merkel said she and her two EU colleagues had pressed Xi to be clear about whether it really wanted an investment agreement that is being negotiated between the two and which would force China to open up its markets.

EU is holding out a nice olive branch to China with promises of increased trade between the two countries. Linking up European countries to the Chinese silk road would be a big win for China as well as being economically beneficial to EU.

The EU and China did sign a deal to protect each other's exported food and drinks items from feta cheese to Pixian bean paste.

While modest, the new deal is a trade coup for Europe as U.S., Australian or New Zealand producers will no longer be able to use the protected names on their exports to China, although there is a transition period for certain cheeses.

One deal beneficial to both parties already has been signed.

Slant has indicated that Brexit is pretty much behind them, with only details left to iron out and with UK almost becoming a country hostile to EU as per Dribbles and others. Dribbles has made it quite clear that he REALLY HATES EU and is quite happy when bad things happen to EU. And it seems like EU is moving forward as a very strong economic power.

[Demolitia]

Meanwhile, EU is flexing its economic muscles.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tear-down...083908077.html

Title: Tear down your barriers, EU says after summit with China's Xi

The gist of the article is that EU is making deals with China, and working hard to get China to change some of its behaviors.

Excerpts:



EU is coming into its own. It is asserting its independence from the US, and asserting its demands on what it wants from China. Obviously, China negotiates hard. So two big powers will be making deals that effect pretty much the whole world. And should the US completely implode, EU is saying we will be here.



EU is holding out a nice olive branch to China with promises of increased trade between the two countries. Linking up European countries to the Chinese silk road would be a big win for China as well as being economically beneficial to EU.



One deal beneficial to both parties already has been signed.

Slant has indicated that Brexit is pretty much behind them, with only details left to iron out and with UK almost becoming a country hostile to EU as per Dribbles and others. Dribbles has made it quite clear that he REALLY HATES EU and is quite happy when bad things happen to EU. And it seems like EU is moving forward as a very strong economic power.

I'm glad Germany has the EU presidency now. After the wasted 6 months of Croatia, we will finally see shit getting done and a clear political direction.

[Slant]

I'm glad Germany has the EU presidency now. After the wasted 6 months of Croatia, we will finally see shit getting done and a clear political direction.

To be fair to Croatia, the presidency doesn't affect the negotiations that much. The EU has had one person responsible for the Brexit negotiations, Barnier, and he will stay in charge until this fiasco is seen to its end, because only then will his mandate end. The Presidency is really more of an administrative post that changes, kind of like the PM or the US presidency, but the big picture politics is made by the member states in the council. And it is them that give out the general route of the EU, regardless of who presides in the council at any particular time. Democracy and all.

Also, during Croatia's time there was "enough time" (albeit still very little) to accomplish something. It's just a coincidence of scheduling that now that time is running out, Germany has the Presidency. The tone would be pretty much the same even if Croatia was still running the Presidency, or Lithuania or Luxembourg...

[dribbles]

What, no comment on the fact that the "amazing" trade deal we signed with Japan puts restrictions on state aid, undermining our negotiating position with the EU? Are you planning to ignore that, or hope that we didn't find out?

Taking back control my fucking arse. I wouldn't trust the bunch of incompetents in charge enough to put them in control of my remote.

Eh wut? The UK doing trade deals needs to be celebrated? I mean it took us a few weeks with Japan, it's no biggie them juicy trade deals will be rolling in monthly from now on. I could understand popping the champagne if we were like the EU doing a trade deal or two roughly every decade - didn't the EU/Mexico deal take like almost 25 years to finalise?

This time next year you'll be masticating on safe chlorinated chicken mark my words.

Slant has indicated that Brexit is pretty much behind them, with only details left to iron out and with UK almost becoming a country hostile to EU as per Dribbles and others. Dribbles has made it quite clear that he REALLY HATES EU and is quite happy when bad things happen to EU. And it seems like EU is moving forward as a very strong economic power.

Hate is a strong word but pretty close, on the other hand don't confuse my disdain for the EU with Europeans. I have lots of eurochums I love dearly and just wish they were as emancipated as I am now in the UK. One day...

To be fair to Croatia, the presidency doesn't affect the negotiations that much. The EU has had one person responsible for the Brexit negotiations, Barnier, and he will stay in charge until this fiasco is seen to its end, because only then will his mandate end. The Presidency is really more of an administrative post that changes, kind of like the PM or the US presidency, but the big picture politics is made by the member states in the council. And it is them that give out the general route of the EU, regardless of who presides in the council at any particular time. Democracy and all.

Also, during Croatia's time there was "enough time" (albeit still very little) to accomplish something. It's just a coincidence of scheduling that now that time is running out, Germany has the Presidency. The tone would be pretty much the same even if Croatia was still running the Presidency, or Lithuania or Luxembourg...

Napoleon Barnierparte should be sacked. He had one thing to do in the last four years, get a brexit deal and he has failed his only mission miserably.

[Omega10]

I'm glad Germany has the EU presidency now. After the wasted 6 months of Croatia, we will finally see shit getting done and a clear political direction.

Slant's response implies to me that Croatia set up the volleyball high in the air... and Germany is spiking it down for the win. Here is an article that pretty much mimics everything that Slant and others have been saying.

Note that Yahoo has very few articles on EU or Brexit. I am not sure what triggered these to be posted.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/european-...130149032.html

Title: European Commission president expected to say Brexit trade deal can still be done in flagship speech

Excerpts: <the article is not as rosy or nice as the title implies>

The president of the European Commission is expected to say that a UK-EU trade deal is still possible but not at any price in her annual flagship speech on Wednesday.

Ursula von der Leyen is expected to use her State of the Union address in the European Parliament in Brussels to double down on her warning that Britain must drop plans to renege on the Withdrawal Agreement.

This is the warmup.

Brexit is expected to only take up a small part of the speech. It will largely focus on the European Commission’s policy priorities for the future and in particular the bloc’s relations with China, its response to the coronavirus pandemic and accelerating plans to reach net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

Oh, by the way, UK just isn't that important to EU. It would be nice if they play nice and live up to international standards, and if not EU will react appropriately.

Brussels has warned that it reserves the right to take legal action against the UK in the European Court of Justice, could trigger dispute mechanisms in the Brexit treaty and ultimately freeze other agreements with the UK as punishment.

Dribbles claims that UK is free to break its agreements and what can EU do? The answer is: don't mess with EU. EU is a tough negotiator, and UK will definitely pay a price if they end up breaking their agreement.

Manfred Weber, leader of the centre-Right European People's Party, the largest group in the European Parliament, said, “The draft bill is unprecedented and shocking. This is what populism can do to a country, which was a global leader of international law and trade.

“We need clarification within the next few days. Why negotiate an agreement about the future if we cannot count on our agreements of the past?”

Philippe Lamberts, member of the Brexit coordination group and leader of the European Greens, said, “The United Kingdom has joined too long a list of countries who abandoned the idea of a rules-based international order in favour of a world where might is right or political expediency is right.”

The left and right of EU are in agreement about their feelings on UK, and it almost sounds like they will have "don't be soft on UK" types of debates and sound bites. Both quotes are quite strong denunciations of UK. This has been one of Slant's main themes recently, and I see that EU is taking this QUITE seriously.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Eh wut? The UK doing trade deals needs to be celebrated? I mean it took us a few weeks with Japan, it's no biggie them juicy trade deals will be rolling in monthly from now on. I could understand popping the champagne if we were like the EU doing a trade deal or two roughly every decade - didn't the EU/Mexico deal take like almost 25 years to finalise?

This time next year you'll be masticating on safe chlorinated chicken mark my words.

So it's the "ignore it and hope we don't find out" approach. Thanks for clarifying that for me. Gotta love Brexiteer blinkers, keeps them focused on leaving and ignoring any of the ramifications.