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  1. #61
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    My prediction on EK revamp;

    Gilneas kingdom is reclaimed and becomes new humans capital while Stormwind kingdom is taken over by the Nobles/Zealots.

    Forsaken move and take over All Scarlet Crusade towns/buildings as a temp home until under city is repaired.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorqin View Post
    TLDR: Give Alliance everything they want and just screw the Horde.

    Nice try, but your alliance fanboy wet dream is not gonna happen.
    Whatever it takes to make the Horde the scrappy underdogs sticking together for survival again.

    The Horde lost: Most of Tirisfal, the elves lost Farstrider Retreat to the Forest Trolls, the Forsaken outposts and Revantusk Village in the Hinterlands, the Sludge Fields in Hillsbrad, Dreadmaul Hold in Blasted Lands.

    The Horde gained: Shadowfang Keep, Fenris Isle, Alterac City, Quel'lithien Lodge, Quel'danil Lodge, Grim Batol and the Twilight Bastion, The Burning Steppes, the Blackrock Clan, most of Stranglethorn Vale, soon to be Zul'Gurub.

    Also, this scenario sets up the Horde to someday get the Forest Trolls as a replacement for Quel'thalas which becomes neutral.


    The Alliance lost nothing, but gained everything they've already gained in the story today: Stromgarde and Gilneas.

    The main Horde/Alliance conflicts are:

    1. The Forsaken vs. Scarlet/Dalaran/Gilneas/Stormwind in the Lordaeron subcontinent.
    2. Khaz Modan vs. Blackrock & Dragonmaw
    3. Stormwind vs. Thrall's Horde at the Dark Portal.

    Considering the Horde lost the Fourth War, I'd say this makes more than enough sense as a likely outcome and is more than generous to the Horde by giving them the Blackrocks to boost their Eastern Kingdoms power as a replacement for the diminished Forsaken power.

    I'm just trying to make the Horde feel like Vanilla again.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    it's been more than 30 years already, give the Alteraci their deserved home and their own autonomous kingdom. Alteraci Humans for the Horde
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  4. #64
    The whole thing about the Argent Crusade makes no sense, the Argent Crusade does not consist of only Humans; if they get no help from SW, Silvermoon is right there to send in support or even the Horde can send support. And the Blood Elves would not be so stupid as to repeat the mistakes of the past & go back into being an isolationist nation; so they would not leave the Horde. With the Zandalari trolls joining the Horde the forest trolls will likely stop fighting the blood elves.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Yosho View Post
    The whole thing about the Argent Crusade makes no sense, the Argent Crusade does not consist of only Humans; if they get no help from SW, Silvermoon is right there to send in support or even the Horde can send support. And the Blood Elves would not be so stupid as to repeat the mistakes of the past & go back into being an isolationist nation; so they would not leave the Horde. With the Zandalari trolls joining the Horde the forest trolls will likely stop fighting the blood elves.
    But that's the thing, what do the blood elves gain by sending their troops away to fight whoever the orcs hate this week? Their reason for joining was safe passage to Outland after their effort to rejoin the Alliance failed. Their reason for staying after Kael'thas was killed was because Sylvanas threatened to take back her Forsaken troops from the Ghostlands if they refused to help in Northrend, something Lor'themar tried to avoid because of how stretched their troops already were, recovering from Kael's attack and the battle over the Sunwell.

    The whole idea here is that the Thalassian people have finally had enough of sending their loved ones to fight wars for the orcs while things only get worse and worse at home with not a single orc in sight protecting them from the Scourge. I also mentioned that the elves just need to solve these problems at home before they'll consider lending help to any faction. They're not becoming isolationist because they hate anyone. They're doing it because Reality has finally come to collect and they came up short. They maintain the lodge in the Hinterlands, have the Magisters studying druidism and shamanism outside of Quel'thalas to learn how they can heal the land once they've routed the Scourge from it, and they have a base at the lodge in the Plaguelands.

    The point is, they've realized that they're not in a position to send help to anyone at the moment. Their own problems are too grave to be ignored and won't be held off much longer without attention.

    Blizzard said that recent new Darkspear troll customization to create sand and dark trolls (not sure if they added forest troll colors or if they're waiting until they can make some beefier troll models as forest trolls are bigger usually) reflects on individuals, not the entire tribes.

    There's also the fact that if the blood elves left the Horde to focus on matters at home, any sort of loyalty to the Horde the forest trolls may have via the Zandalari no longer factors into their attacks on the elves. The absence of the elves in the Horde greatly improves the odds of the forest trolls joining eventually, once their common enemies become too strong.

    Once the elves have the situation a bit more under control, and if the Forest Trolls join the Horde in force, the elves may have no choice but to cooperate with the Alliance, building from their relationship with the Wildhammers in the Hinterlands, at least until the trolls are taken care of, which is a long way off. I want these to be world powers you can't just sweep away in a questing zone via some dumb vehicle combat where you get a blimp and drop bombs on their entire army and decimate them. That's dumb. I want these to be new realities people just have to live with, so if there is conflict between the kingdoms, it actually means something and has impact.


    This idea of being too busy to send help goes for everyone else too.

    1. The Horde (Orc, Tauren) is busy trying desperately to take the Dark Portal so that their people in Outland can arrive safely in Azeroth before the planet crumbles to nothing. If they could send support willy-nilly, they'd send it to the Forsaken who they have an obligation to help. The Darkspear at the same time are working on Stranglethorn Vale in order to annex the Gurubashi and add them to the fight against Stormwind and Dalaran's forces in the Blasted Lands.

    2. The Night Elves are pissed at everyone with possible exception of the Worgen, so all they care about is reclaiming their former holdings in Kalimdor that nobody helped them defend adequately enough to prevent the Horde from destroying.

    3. Dalaran as an Alliance-only kingdom isn't as powerful as they once were, as their primary source of Horde magi, the Blood Elves, are now focusing on their own problems in Quel'thalas (again, the elves aren't Horde or Alliance anymore right now, just focusing on their home first, so once it's safer, they might consider having elves in Dalaran if they're welcome in the future). Still, they might be able to send token help to the Argents.

    4. Forsaken are holding out against the Alliance forces in Lordaeron and not in a position to help anyone. The Argents also aren't too jazzed about them anymore anyway.

    5. Gilneas' only concern is restoring their kingdom.

    6. The Wildhammers are busy with the Forest Trolls in Hinterlands and the Dragonmaw in Twilight Highlands.

    7. The ones probably in the biggest position to send a lot of help to the Argents are the Bronzebeards and Dark Irons, since they're currently in the process of expansion, not defending pre-existing borders.

    The Argents aren't trampled here. They've lost Hearthglen and a couple towers to the Scarlets, but gained Andorhal, anything in the Plaguelands the Alliance held in Cataclysm, and Tyr's Hand.

    Everyone's currently busy doing their own thing, as it should be (having so many local stories helps you connect with them a lot more, much more than everyone in the world fighting Twilight's Hammer or generic Horde/Alliance forces instead of the specific groups within those factions). If the Argents were in danger of being completely wiped out, then someone might send some help, but when I say they've lost support, I mean that recruitment in Stormwind is way down, with the stream instead being directed toward the Scarlet Crusade.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-12 at 01:51 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    It'd be possible for them to be in Duskwood, but it's still a Stormwind territory, so their presence wouldn't be to settle it with their own towns, but just working out of the currently existing human buildings to cure worgen. It's also possible they'd help the Night Elves, but I'm trying to make the Night Elves a bit more independent as they were in WC3. At the moment, I'm using Kul Tiras' history with Daelin Proudmoore and Theramore as the Night Elves' primary partner in Kalimdor.
    The thing is, worgen and night elves are now closely connected in the story. It was set up in cataclysm and further cemented in BfA. I think that if Alliance retake Gilneas, most of worgen would most likely contribute to restoration of their homeland... that natural. Still I think there would be some individuals and perhaps some groups who would like to help kaldorei in their cause. Kalimdor was home for some worgen for many years now, they may like to liberate it from the Horde as well.

    What I also think could be logical is night elves having emissaries in Gilneas. Officialy, they could serve as the only diplomatic envoys of Kaldorei in eastern kingdoms. Given role of Stormwind and most notably Anduin in the Fourth War, I don't think night elves would like to really talk to a man who honored an orcish warrior responsible for the genocide of their people. It is the impression I got from Shadow's Rising, where Tyrande and Malfurion ignores Anduin's letters. The true purpose of those emissaries would be gathering information from the Eastern Kingdoms, regarding both Horde and the Alliance.

    At the moment, the idea is to make the Night Elves not care much about the Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms due to how useless they've been. The Night Elves joined the Alliance to keep their people safe (same as the Blood Elves for the Horde), and the result has only been the Night Elves sending their troops on Alliance campaigns to die in foreign wars, with very little to show for their partnership. They are very angry and don't have the patience. There may be smaller groups of independent elves helping the Gilneans in Duskwood to cure worgen, but the majority of night elf society right now is fixed on vengeance and wrath, punishing the Horde for what it's done to them and rightly reclaiming their territory.
    I like the approach you give to night elves. I think it is a picture many people want to see. My point was that elves did not cure feral worgen in Duskwood to help the Alliance. These worgen were summoned by Scythe of Elune, so they are most likely original Druids of the Pack, which means former night elves. Once they are successful with bringing them back to their senses, night elves recruit them and through dream portal transfer them to Kalimdor to use them in their fights with the Horde. These worgen could be glad elves bring them back and they can see fights with the Horde as an opportunity to unleash their fury. It would help humans resettling the region of course, but that's not what night elves intend to do.

    I can't think of where it would be, but possibly they might settle in Desolace and create a few bio-domes like we see in Netherstorm, trying to terraform the zone to be suitable for life, like the druids there.
    Well, I would actually like to see Desolace being regrown by tauren druids into New Mulgore, being opposed by kaldorei who fights their advance... but I guess draenei building eco-domes could work too. I just feel draenei fits more naturally into Eastern Kingdoms alongside humans, thanks to their connection to Light. I believe they can be great addition to Dark Portal blockade. Blasted Lands are still infested with demons, so that gives them reason to be here as well, cleansing the land.


    The Forsaken's primary method of keeping their strength is using the bodies of dead soldiers both human and Forsaken to create more abominations, recycling parts. They have a few necromancers, but their talents are being put to use in Northrend for what I've got planned for the Northrend map. They likely don't have many banshees left as most would probably have been fiercely loyal to Sylvanas and either be dead or have followed her into the Shadowlands. But who knows, there may be some left who could have tried to mind control the ogres in Alterac (who were the ogres Sylvanas originally charmed back in WC3).
    Well, I'm looking forward to that story as well. Alterac ogres can serve few purposes:
    1) be killed and their bodies used as building material for fine abominations
    2) be mind controlled again. It does not have to involve only banshees. I guess Royal Apothecary Society can come up with some interesting concoctions which affects the mind.
    3) be hired as mercenaries or recruited by other means.

    I think number 1 or 2 fits way better to Forsaken methods then number 3

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yosho View Post
    The whole thing about the Argent Crusade makes no sense, the Argent Crusade does not consist of only Humans; if they get no help from SW, Silvermoon is right there to send in support or even the Horde can send support. And the Blood Elves would not be so stupid as to repeat the mistakes of the past & go back into being an isolationist nation; so they would not leave the Horde. With the Zandalari trolls joining the Horde the forest trolls will likely stop fighting the blood elves.
    The problem is that various elves said on various occasions that they hate trolls more then anything else. Even Sylvanas, shortly after she regained her free will in TfT, said she hates trolls almost as much as she hates Arthas. Don't forget, forest trolls were killing elves, skinning them and making trophies of their heads and other body parts for ages. Troll Wars were brutal and if humans didn't come to help, elves may have been wiped out. Most importantly, forest trolls hate elves equally, because they took their ancestral lands.
    Blood elves chose to tolerate Darkspears because they are other kind of trolls, but even then there are elves who rather defected to the Alliance and stayed High Elves then to work with the Horde (and trolls).
    I don't really want all races to become friends.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    My prediction on EK revamp;

    Gilneas kingdom is reclaimed and becomes new humans capital while Stormwind kingdom is taken over by the Nobles/Zealots.

    Forsaken move and take over All Scarlet Crusade towns/buildings as a temp home until under city is repaired.
    That would be interesting, so we kinda like have southern EK now up for grabs, and humanity has been pushed into the North again.

  8. #68
    I mean props for all the effort put into it but I don't see how you'd quest through a lot of this. Right off the bat I see problems. Are we going to do quests for or against this reinvigorated Scarlet Crusade as Alliance players?

    You have to consider it's not just "write plot" but "write plot that the player plays an active part in that justifies quests in a zone", hence your criticized-but-very-effective "you, the player, must receive all the zone macguffins to defeat the Legion!"

    Picture Silverpine Forest as an example zone. We're not saving the world, but we have a very clear role in bolstering Sylvanas's forces with the intention of taking Gilneas as a Horde player, culminating in taking vengeance against her killers.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2020-09-14 at 02:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I mean props for all the effort put into it but I don't see how you'd quest through a lot of this. Right off the bat I see problems. Are we going to do quests for or against this reinvigorated Scarlet Crusade as Alliance players?

    You have to consider it's not just "write plot" but "write plot that the player plays an active part in that justifies quests in a zone", hence your criticized-but-very-effective "you, the player, must receive all the zone macguffins to defeat the Legion!"

    Picture Silverpine Forest as an example zone. We're not saving the world, but we have a very clear role in bolstering Sylvanas's forces with the intention of taking Gilneas as a Horde player, culminating in taking vengeance against her killers.
    This was mainly just to say who of the major factions controls each area and to detail what's going on in the zone. This doesn't mean there aren't gnolls and kobolds and other varmints causing problems that need to be put down. I'll probably go through each zone to mention some of the things that players could do, because there's a lot, considering Cataclysm questing that had plenty of Horde vs. Alliance conflicts.

    To answer your individual question, yes, Alliance would be questing for these Scarlet Crusaders. Horde players in Silverpine would be attacking Ambermill, Pyrewood Village, Dalaran's holdings in Lordamere Lake, perhaps trying to sneak up into the Alterac Foothills to poison some Alliance camps, etc. I'll write some things up that they could do when I can.

  10. #70
    Good effort.

    But, personally is do not yearn for a return to the original continents. I am even unsure something like this would satisfy you for long until you would want another time skip.

    I think it is alright and for a little scenario or something that shows something new in the old world, but i don't think it should be the focus.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    if the Argents lose support from Stormwind then it's only right that they reunite with their Forsaken brethren and align themselves to the Horde, after all Lordaeron had a nice history with Quel'thalas so the Argents should support the Forsaken and Blood Elves

    also looks like the Kingdom of Alterac really can't take a break
    That takes a mental backflip of epic proportions to justify.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    The thing is, worgen and night elves are now closely connected in the story. It was set up in cataclysm and further cemented in BfA. I think that if Alliance retake Gilneas, most of worgen would most likely contribute to restoration of their homeland... that natural. Still I think there would be some individuals and perhaps some groups who would like to help kaldorei in their cause. Kalimdor was home for some worgen for many years now, they may like to liberate it from the Horde as well.
    Yeah, individuals, but right now I don't want any armies in each other's zones hogging the spotlight like the Gilnean village in Val'sharah. One or two questgivers here and there, perhaps.

    What I also think could be logical is night elves having emissaries in Gilneas. Officialy, they could serve as the only diplomatic envoys of Kaldorei in eastern kingdoms. Given role of Stormwind and most notably Anduin in the Fourth War, I don't think night elves would like to really talk to a man who honored an orcish warrior responsible for the genocide of their people. It is the impression I got from Shadow's Rising, where Tyrande and Malfurion ignores Anduin's letters. The true purpose of those emissaries would be gathering information from the Eastern Kingdoms, regarding both Horde and the Alliance.

    I like the approach you give to night elves. I think it is a picture many people want to see. My point was that elves did not cure feral worgen in Duskwood to help the Alliance. These worgen were summoned by Scythe of Elune, so they are most likely original Druids of the Pack, which means former night elves. Once they are successful with bringing them back to their senses, night elves recruit them and through dream portal transfer them to Kalimdor to use them in their fights with the Horde. These worgen could be glad elves bring them back and they can see fights with the Horde as an opportunity to unleash their fury. It would help humans resettling the region of course, but that's not what night elves intend to do.
    Now that I think about it, some of the worgen in Lordaeron must also be night elves summoned by Arugal. So I suppose there should be some night elves in Duskwood and Lordaeron in an official capacity. They won't be there because they want to help anyone. The only reason they're there is to help calm the minds of the feral worgen so that any who are night elves can be brought back into the fold to be used as a weapon against the Horde in Kalimdor. That's a good idea.

    Well, I would actually like to see Desolace being regrown by tauren druids into New Mulgore, being opposed by kaldorei who fights their advance... but I guess draenei building eco-domes could work too. I just feel draenei fits more naturally into Eastern Kingdoms alongside humans, thanks to their connection to Light. I believe they can be great addition to Dark Portal blockade. Blasted Lands are still infested with demons, so that gives them reason to be here as well, cleansing the land.
    Blasted Lands could work well. Possibly they could also be assisting the night elves in Felwood too. Hard to think of a place where the Draenei could belong where they could establish their own nation outside of the islands they already have. I suppose giving Desolace to the tauren would be better, giving tauren a new frontier, packaged in with the inevitable conflict they'd have with the centaur living there, giving them an enemy to focus on besides just helping the orcs with their problems.

    Well, I'm looking forward to that story as well. Alterac ogres can serve few purposes:
    1) be killed and their bodies used as building material for fine abominations
    2) be mind controlled again. It does not have to involve only banshees. I guess Royal Apothecary Society can come up with some interesting concoctions which affects the mind.
    3) be hired as mercenaries or recruited by other means.

    I think number 1 or 2 fits way better to Forsaken methods then number 3
    One idea I have for the Northrend bit is that the Forsaken necromancers are trying to learn how to create banshees so they can return to Lordaeron and sever the Forsaken's spirits from their bodies so they can flee from them if they're about to be killed, then possess a new body if they want to. Mind-controlling the ogres would be a good temporary solution to buy them time, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Good effort.

    But, personally is do not yearn for a return to the original continents. I am even unsure something like this would satisfy you for long until you would want another time skip.

    I think it is alright and for a little scenario or something that shows something new in the old world, but i don't think it should be the focus.
    I only want this because it makes zero sense that nothing important ever happens in old zones, when prior to WoW, EVERYTHING important happened in the old areas.

    I would eventually want the story to progress, but this idea is to reset the board which is needed every few years, story-wise. Blood Elves and Draenei are still sitting in 2007.

    They could do phasing so people can quest in the old zones in the Cataclysm era via the new Shadowlands Chromie stuff, or quest through modern versions where things are happening again.

    I only think this would be a good idea because they're saying there might be a time skip after Shadowlands because time in the physical world passes more quickly than in the Shadowlands or something like that. We can't come out of the Shadowlands and only have Orgrimmar and Stormwind be 20 years older.

    I'm not saying the entire world should be updated every expansion. What I am saying with this whole thing is that the zones either need to be updated periodically or be given more evergreen content. Nothing in Vanilla seemed like it couldn't have happened during BC instead, and in fact Onyxia was lorewise killed at the end of BC by Varian when he returned instead of Vanilla by adventurers.

    Personally, I care much more when I'm questing through content that matters to me and has groups and characters that are familiar. For example, in BfA, our mission table said the Forsaken had taken Shadowfang Keep and were fighting worgen from Gilneas. Meanwhile, what did WE get to do? Help turtles make it to the water.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-14 at 05:16 PM.

  13. #73
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    That takes a mental backflip of epic proportions to justify.
    pardon my reading comprehension but what
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    pardon my reading comprehension but what
    I think he finds it far fetched that the Argents would decide to make enemies of the Alliance just to join the Horde, forgetting that most of their members are from Alliance races and probably have relatives back in Alliance lands. Gotta say I agree it'd never happen. You'd never see night elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. align themselves with Horde, especially not Forsaken, and especially if it also meant opposing their homelands.

    Lordaeronian humans are slightly more likely, but it's a 0% chance for the others and a 0.00001% chance for the Lordaeron humans. In this scenario, there's no reason for them to oppose Dalaran, Gilneas, Stormwind, and the Scarlets just to save the Forsaken who do some pretty horrible sickening things on a regular basis.

    There's also no big thing that stands out to me of blood elves helping the Argents, at least not more than any other race. The Sunreavers and Silver Covenant's common denominator is that they were subservient to the Kirin Tor. I doubt Lor'themar told the Sunreavers to help the Argents at the Argent Tournament. No doubt the Argents asked Dalaran to help moderate, and Dalaran sent the two elven factions to serve as liaisons between the crusade and the Horde/Alliance.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-14 at 09:11 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Yeah, individuals, but right now I don't want any armies in each other's zones hogging the spotlight like the Gilnean village in Val'sharah. One or two questgivers here and there, perhaps.



    Now that I think about it, some of the worgen in Lordaeron must also be night elves summoned by Arugal. So I suppose there should be some night elves in Duskwood and Lordaeron in an official capacity. They won't be there because they want to help anyone. The only reason they're there is to help calm the minds of the feral worgen so that any who are night elves can be brought back into the fold to be used as a weapon against the Horde in Kalimdor. That's a good idea.



    Blasted Lands could work well. Possibly they could also be assisting the night elves in Felwood too. Hard to think of a place where the Draenei could belong where they could establish their own nation outside of the islands they already have. I suppose giving Desolace to the tauren would be better, giving tauren a new frontier, packaged in with the inevitable conflict they'd have with the centaur living there, giving them an enemy to focus on besides just helping the orcs with their problems.



    One idea I have for the Northrend bit is that the Forsaken necromancers are trying to learn how to create banshees so they can return to Lordaeron and sever the Forsaken's spirits from their bodies so they can flee from them if they're about to be killed, then possess a new body if they want to. Mind-controlling the ogres would be a good temporary solution to buy them time, though.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I only want this because it makes zero sense that nothing important ever happens in old zones, when prior to WoW, EVERYTHING important happened in the old areas.

    I would eventually want the story to progress, but this idea is to reset the board which is needed every few years, story-wise. Blood Elves and Draenei are still sitting in 2007.

    They could do phasing so people can quest in the old zones in the Cataclysm era via the new Shadowlands Chromie stuff, or quest through modern versions where things are happening again.

    I only think this would be a good idea because they're saying there might be a time skip after Shadowlands because time in the physical world passes more quickly than in the Shadowlands or something like that. We can't come out of the Shadowlands and only have Orgrimmar and Stormwind be 20 years older.

    I'm not saying the entire world should be updated every expansion. What I am saying with this whole thing is that the zones either need to be updated periodically or be given more evergreen content. Nothing in Vanilla seemed like it couldn't have happened during BC instead, and in fact Onyxia was lorewise killed at the end of BC by Varian when he returned instead of Vanilla by adventurers.

    Personally, I care much more when I'm questing through content that matters to me and has groups and characters that are familiar. For example, in BfA, our mission table said the Forsaken had taken Shadowfang Keep and were fighting worgen from Gilneas. Meanwhile, what did WE get to do? Help turtles make it to the water.
    You missed the clarification. Time passes faster on the shadowlands, apparantly. It was confirmed by something Jaina said in the beggining scenario that while it was mere days for us, they had been there for months.
    There isn't going to be a time skip as far as we know.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You missed the clarification. Time passes faster on the shadowlands, apparantly. It was confirmed by something Jaina said in the beggining scenario that while it was mere days for us, they had been there for months.
    There isn't going to be a time skip as far as we know.
    Didn't they say something more like time is weird in the Shadowlands? Death knight players in their intro experience talk to Salanar the Horseman in WotLK, then in Legion 5 years later, he says "Greetings, Deathlord. Years have passed since we first met, but for me it has been mere days."

    So for Jaina, it went faster, but for Salanar, it was slower. Could it be possible that Salanar usually resides in Maldraxxus, and time is faster than Azeroth's in the Maw but slower than Azeroth's in the other realms, in order to maximize the time the Jailer can spend punishing his charges?

    I suppose this scenario is just for if they decided to go with that explanation and say there was a time skip after all.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    That takes a mental backflip of epic proportions to justify.
    Oh my god imagine the argent crusade willingly fighting alongside my forsaken death knight. My monk can't even pull off that kind of backflip.

    (and yet, Shadowlands pre-patch, so we'll see.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    Didn't they say something more like time is weird in the Shadowlands? Death knight players in their intro experience talk to Salanar the Horseman in WotLK, then in Legion 5 years later, he says "Greetings, Deathlord. Years have passed since we first met, but for me it has been mere days."

    So for Jaina, it went faster, but for Salanar, it was slower. Could it be possible that Salanar usually resides in Maldraxxus, and time is faster than Azeroth's in the Maw but slower than Azeroth's in the other realms, in order to maximize the time the Jailer can spend punishing his charges?

    I suppose this scenario is just for if they decided to go with that explanation and say there was a time skip after all.
    Yeah, it's weird i guess.
    I guess we might learn more once we play through the xpac.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yeah, it's weird i guess.
    I guess we might learn more once we play through the xpac.
    I do prefer the idea of the characters we meet to not have been doing things for 20+ years like in Draka's case. Make them closer to how they used to be, unlike Alleria and Turalyon with the 1000 years to justify any odd character changes.

    But Uther is a mess.

    Dies in WC3, soul supposedly sucked by Frostmourne, but also in Bastion, but also at his tomb as early as BC when we defile it on orders from a blood knight and Uther's former pupil Mehlar Dawnblade, but also trapped in Frostmourne as we see in WotLK until released, at which point we must believe it went back to his tomb.

    Only explanation is when Uther was killed, his soul was split in half with one part going to Bastion and the other half not being claimed by Frostmourne, perhaps through the same small shred of humanity left in Arthas that stopped him from raising Uther as a death knight. Uther then gets buried in the tomb by some of his surviving knights, where his spirit resides up to BC, then the DK event in WotLK happens and perhaps Arthas makes a stop at Uther's tomb now that he's fully merged with Ner'zhul and stabbed the representation of his humanity in his mind when he put on the helm. Arthas sucks up Uther's soul, then goes to Light's Hope Chapel or the Scarlet Enclave to continue the DK event, and then in Northrend we find Uther's soul in the Halls of Reflection dungeon, trapped in Frostmourne, freed once Frostmourne shatters. Once freed, the half of Uther's spirit in Azeroth went back to his tomb where it resided until Legion most recently when paladin players ask Uther where to find Ashbringer.

    Messy messy messy.
    Last edited by Koryn123; 2020-09-15 at 05:07 AM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koryn123 View Post
    I think he finds it far fetched that the Argents would decide to make enemies of the Alliance just to join the Horde, forgetting that most of their members are from Alliance races and probably have relatives back in Alliance lands. Gotta say I agree it'd never happen. You'd never see night elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc. align themselves with Horde, especially not Forsaken, and especially if it also meant opposing their homelands.

    Lordaeronian humans are slightly more likely, but it's a 0% chance for the others and a 0.00001% chance for the Lordaeron humans. In this scenario, there's no reason for them to oppose Dalaran, Gilneas, Stormwind, and the Scarlets just to save the Forsaken who do some pretty horrible sickening things on a regular basis.
    I mean, it's as you said - on a "what if" scenario where Stormwind removes all support from the Argents due to them not helping against Sylvanas or whatever; then of course the Night Elves, Draenei, High Elves, Dwarves, Alliance loyal Lordaeronians, Gnomes, etc. would move out or get shoo'ed off, and I meant the Argent Lordaeronians, Human and Forsaken; my bad.

    In terms of geopolitics, I'd think that the Lordaeronians would stand better with Forsaken and Blood Elves due to their closer proximity; and about Blood Elves and Argents - I mean the uhhh relations of Lordaeron and Quel'thalas before WoW and would you look at it, Argent Lordaeronians helping the Blood Elves and Forsaken would be their penance and amends for what Garithos (another Lordaeronian) did to the Blood Elves. Also, Argents allying with the Horde would mean honoring Tirion and Eitrigg's friendship. If the Alliance gets their token High Elven NPCs, I'd think the Horde should also get some token Human NPCs

    Also I don't think Dalaran would be an Alliance faction, Modera is pretty much a Sunreaver apologist

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Oh my god imagine the argent crusade willingly fighting alongside my forsaken death knight. My monk can't even pull off that kind of backflip.
    Ashen Verdict?
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

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