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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    If Ion would stop saying what he thinks the community wants to hear and instead start doing what the community wants to see happen, I'd have a lot less of an issue with him. Right now it's hard to believe a fucking word the dude says because of his penchant for either divulging too information or intentionally overselling a development philosophy in order to quell unrest (see also: rip cord). I don't think he should be fired but it wouldn't fucking hurt anybody for the guy to be a little bit more direct in the information he communicates to us.
    What you and other who spew this completely ignore is that players aren't a hive mind. They all want different things. So here is what you are really saying:

    If Ion would stop saying what he thinks the community wants to hear and instead start doing what I want to see happen, I'd have a lot less of an issue with him. Right now it's hard to believe a fucking word the dude says because of his penchant for not catering solely to me and do everything I want sinc e I am the only one who should matter. I don't think he should be fired but it wouldn't fucking hurt anybody for the guy to do what I want and listen solely to me
    Also, the reason he isn't more direct is because the players have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted to act like adults and childishly tear him a part automatically regardless of what he says. There is no point in trying to communicate with players who act like children regardless of what you say.

  2. #202
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyX1982 View Post
    Tha post makes you sound like one of those elitist wankers who don't play to enjoy the game or anything, you take it way too seriously to the point there you'll turn your nose up at something you enjoy or find fun & go with some boring shit because it offers 1% more dps or some shit, then piss & moan about it on a board where no one with any clout is actually gonna read it. Also, SV? Let it the fuck go, its been 2 expansions.

    If you don't enjoy it, you are a paying customer, drop your money on something you do enjoy. Vote with your feet & your wallet, not your mouse & keyboard.
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  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Legends303 View Post
    I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.
    Clearly u dont have beta access. You are misunderstanding a great many things.

  4. #204
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What you and other who spew this completely ignore is that players aren't a hive mind. They all want different things. So here is what you are really saying:



    Also, the reason he isn't more direct is because the players have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted to act like adults and childishly tear him a part automatically regardless of what he says. There is no point in trying to communicate with players who act like children regardless of what you say.
    Ion was actually incredibly direct in this case, I went ahead and typed up a quote from his interview and it’s pretty much exactly the same as his blue post (not in wording but idea) I even posted said quote to the user your quoting who seems to think that if the ripcord isn’t pulled when he wants then it’s a lie.

    Here’s the quote in question.
    Our goal is to do as much as that as possible during beta then make conservative changes once were live and if somethings a bit out of whack we probably lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier with alot of of advanced noticed so people can plan around it versus you logged in one day and the rules have changed from out form under you. "


    then preach follows up with a question about rather they think this is the best idea where he says.

    "we do continue to think that yes, and i think our goal is to. the conversion we would love to have with the community in the next couple of months is what are the biggest problems what are the area's of great worry what are the area's that will make this fail. lets try and target those lets try and sure those up. is there the fall back opinion at the end of the day of removing all of the restrictions and you can just mix and max and change things freely? if we need to pull that rip cord it exist but that is see as a last recourse."

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    One thing is demonstrably not true- Ghostcrawler was lead class designer until he left in 2013, and I dont think Ion has ever been involved too heavily on the mechanics side of it prior to his elevation to lead designer but I cannot say that second part with absolute certainty.
    ... What's not true? I didn't say LEAD, I said he was a game designer. Do you not know that there's hundreds of people working on WoW? It's not like the 10 we get to see on stage are the only ones making calls.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    Remember when people called for Ghostcrawler to be fired every expansion?
    Ghostcrawler wasn't a problem. Kalgan on the other hand should have been locked up.

  7. #207
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GamerDude40 View Post
    Ghostcrawler wasn't a problem. Kalgan on the other hand should have been locked up.
    Ghostcrawler got the blame for bad decisions and wasn't a dick. Ion basically talks down to people. Again, I don't think he should be fired. He's just super spiky and it's extremely unbecoming of a person in his position.
    Last edited by Perkunas; 2020-09-15 at 04:04 PM.
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  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Ghostcrawler got the blame for bad decisions and wasn't a dick. Ion basically talks down to people.
    He does?

    They are two different people, no doubt. Different personalities and stuff. I think Ion is much more professional. But talks down to people?
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  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    I usually agree with this sort of sentiment if say people dig things up people said or did years ago, however, something he said a month ago I feel is still relevant.
    Maybe something happened that drastically changed the way he sees things? Like someone basically lying in parts of his public communication and therefore playing with his trust? Doesn't matter how laughable it is to you, it is still a reason for him to change his opinion in this specific case. I put that in again to remind you of the importance of context.

    If its tuesday and I tell someone in conversation that I like pitbulls, I have every right to not be called a hypocrite when I change my opinion after having my kid mauled to death by one on thursday. So much for "a month ago, so still relevant".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    How is his rhetoric unfit? In this case he literally laid out the plan they were following for the coming months then when said months came he stuck exactly to that plan.

    Would it create less friction if he just lied to us or should he just stop doing interviews altogether so people can’t misconstrue what he says?
    He said they can easily pull the ripcord. Turns out there is none, and there never has been one. Giving people hope by lying to them isn't exactly something that sparks joy in your community. He is also the master of "lawyer talk", which is not surprising since he is one. Having to listen to someone weasel themselves out of having to make concrete statements and veiling themselves in ambiguity is infuriating. Neither is it a rhetoric befitting someone in his position.

    If I wanted to listen to a lawyer, i'd sue someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Grow the fuck up, dude. I don't give a shit if Ion listens to me. I do give a shit when Ion says things that aren't fully true and later moves goal posts because he would rather coddle players than be direct with them. You can try to defend his indirect approach because of some ridiculous notion that "players can't be trusted with the truth" but I'd simply prefer a more upfront approach.
    Quoting the guy below me for literally making the same statement.
    Last edited by LazuOG; 2020-09-15 at 04:13 PM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What you and other who spew this completely ignore is that players aren't a hive mind. They all want different things. So here is what you are really saying:



    Also, the reason he isn't more direct is because the players have proven time and time again that they cannot be trusted to act like adults and childishly tear him a part automatically regardless of what he says. There is no point in trying to communicate with players who act like children regardless of what you say.
    Grow the fuck up, dude. I don't give a shit if Ion listens to me. I do give a shit when Ion says things that aren't fully true and later moves goal posts because he would rather coddle players than be direct with them. You can try to defend his indirect approach because of some ridiculous notion that "players can't be trusted with the truth" but I'd simply prefer a more upfront approach.

  11. #211
    wish all these whiners would just go away

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    He said they can easily pull the ripcord. Turns out there is none, and there never has been one.
    or there is one, and they still can pull it, they just dont think its necesary, which a lot of people would agree...
    or do you have anything suggesting they didnt have the ripcord in place other than them not pulling it? bcs that means pretty much nothing...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by blaatschaap View Post
    wish all these whiners would just go away
    thats not gonna happen, i think one of SW:TOR developers said if you gave gamers magical hat that can fulfil all their wishes they would complain about the color of the hat

  13. #213
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazuOG View Post
    He said they can easily pull the ripcord. Turns out there is none, and there never has been one. Giving people hope by lying to them isn't exactly something that sparks joy in your community. He is also the master of "lawyer talk", which is not surprising since he is one. Having to listen to someone weasel themselves out of having to make concrete statements and veiling themselves in ambiguity is infuriating. Neither is it a rhetoric befitting someone in his position.

    If I wanted to listen to a lawyer, i'd sue someone
    .
    He never said any thing about easily pulling the rip cord he said it would be a last recourse and the ripcord in question would be them putting in the time to de couple every thing and make them work unliked to covenants which is exactly what they said they would do in his blue post.

    There was no lawyer talk there was no weaselling he said what the plan was for the coming months and then in the blue post told us what the plan he already gave looked like in practice.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2020-09-15 at 04:26 PM.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    This expansion is nowhere near ready for release yet, and supposedly it is a month and a half away

    And their latest pvp vendor thing told me the devs have no idea what they're doing.
    This is shaping up to be the biggest rush job since Warlords of Draenor. Yikes.
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  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    More or less same thing if suddenly some "youtube political analyst" would be transferred from his basement to White House.



    Lol, let's wait for another 3.3-3.4 M sold from pre-orders and first day alone.
    Selling those copies within 24h when players quit in droves right after that isn't a proof of anything. Their financial results tell another story and right until Shadowlands pre orders or the Classic launch hit the ground they were really bad in comparison to the results from the last +5 years (I don't really want to open this discussion again, but if necessary I'll bring back all the nice graphs with official shareholder data that are proving my point).
    Last edited by Nyel; 2020-09-15 at 04:42 PM.
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    He never said any thing about easily pulling the rip cord he said it would be a last recourse and the ripcord in question would be them putting in the time to de couple every thing and make them work unliked to covenants which is exactly what they said they could do in his blue post.

    There was no lawyer talk there was no weaselling he said what the plan was for the coming months and then in the blue post told us what the plan he already gave looked like in practice.
    I already had this discussion with you in another thread but it's kind of frustrating to see you continuing to double down on this histrionic version of events. Words have meanings and if there was never an intention to "pull the rip cord" then he shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place. For a guy who is very careful with the words he says it's hard to believe that this was an "on-the-spot" verbal gaffe as I've seen people suggest rather than an intentional attempt to placate portions of the game's community who were (and still are) very concerned with the way Covenants are going to shake out.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnosh View Post
    This is shaping up to be the biggest rush job since Warlords of Draenor. Yikes.
    It is. And it's funny that Ion claims it's the "most ambitious expansion we've ever made" - lol. No new races, no new class, just 4+1 new zones, no real new features besides reputation factions turned into another grind system, but hey, MOST AMBITIOUS EXPANSION EVER!
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  18. #218
    You know Ion is not the only man making this game. World of Warcraft is built by hundreds of people. Yes, he is the boss and shot-caller but don't except the game direction to drastically change just because they fire him, at least not in a year or two. The hate on Ion reminds me of Ghostcrawler. He was always the one that stood in front of the community and tried to explain why are they doing things the way they are and what are they trying to achieve with each change. And people hated him, that guy received so much hate for doing his job the right way it's unreal. In people's eyes, he was the one person responsible for every single decision being made in the team. So at one point GC had enough and resigned. I remember the cheering among the community everybody was so sure the game will be better from now on, just because he left. This was during Mists of Pandaria. And guess what? The only thing changed that there was no longer a person who communicated with the player base. If anything things became worse after he left if we look at WoD.
    So anyway the point is if you think getting rid of Ion will solve every problem with WoW and it suddenly becomes a perfect MMO again you are delusional. Ion at least passionate about the game and you can't deny him that, every single interview he always demonstrates that he knows everything about the current state of the game, he knows what's happening and why it's happening. He simply doesn't agree certain things are a problem. I wouldn't take the gamble of replacing him with who knows who, maybe some jackey from Activision sent there to "make things better" (more profitable) or someone who doesn't even care about the game at all.

    TLDR: Disagreeing with his direction of the game doesn't make him bad at his job.
    Last edited by Asheeva; 2020-09-15 at 04:43 PM.

  19. #219
    I hope the OP gets fired from his job at Mcdonalds because somebody doesn't subjectively like the burgers there.

    Wouldn't feel fair would it?

  20. #220
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I already had this discussion with you in another thread but it's kind of frustrating to see you continuing to double down on this histrionic version of events. Words have meanings and if there was never an intention to "pull the rip cord" then he shouldn't have said anything about it in the first place. For a guy who is very careful with the words he says it's hard to believe that this was an "on-the-spot" verbal gaffe as I've seen people suggest rather than an intentional attempt to placate portions of the game's community who were (and still are) very concerned with the way Covenants are going to shake out.
    Your absolutely right words do have meanings and thankfully I have a quote so you can’t lie or misconstrued what those meanings are.
    Our goal is to do as much as that as possible during beta then make conservative changes once were live and if somethings a bit out of whack we probably lean towards doing that in a patch in the next tier with alot of of advanced noticed so people can plan around it versus you logged in one day and the rules have changed from out form under you. "


    then preach follows up with a question about rather they think this is the best idea where he says.

    "we do continue to think that yes, and i think our goal is to. the conversion we would love to have with the community in the next couple of months is what are the biggest problems what are the area's of great worry what are the area's that will make this fail. lets try and target those lets try and sure those up. is there the fall back opinion at the end of the day of removing all of the restrictions and you can just mix and max and change things freely? if we need to pull that rip cord it exist but that is see as a last recourse."
    Here you go I even bolded the most important part and as an additional favour I’ll even quote the blue post so there can be absolutely no confusion.

    we would embrace the work required to rebuild the covenant system along those lines if we agreed that it would be an improvement, but we ultimately do not share that view.
    The option of them opening them up is still there them pulling the ripcord would be doing exactly what ion said in the blue post, the ripcord isn’t and hasn’t ever been a button that just does every thing instantly the fact that You don’t understand this doesn’t mean there is no rip cord and it doesn’t mean there was any lie it just means you jumped to some fantastical conclusion all on your own.

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