[Suggestions updated] Pre-Legion/Ranged Survival

[trapmaster]

Man, reading that make me little sad to not seeing it happen.... I really loved ranged survival in wotlk, cata, and mop time.

[F Rm]

Man, reading that make me little sad to not seeing it happen.... I really loved ranged survival in wotlk, cata, and mop time.

Not entirely sure if this was directed towards my original post containing the suggestions or if you're responding to someone else here in this topic.
But either way, I agree. The most fun I ever had as a hunter was with the ranged SV spec.

In my original suggestion-post I tried to include elements taken from all iterations of the spec that we've had in the past. (WotLK, Cata, MoP, WoD).
Along with some extra stuff just so it's further highlighted what the main purpose of the spec is/would be in the modern game.

[Maxilian]

Possibly. Could also not be played much because it falls behind other melee specs while they have much easier playstyle, much higher damage, and better utility.
Let’s face it, Blizzard made it a convoluted spec to get even decent damage out of while being laughed at by other melee. I’ve supplied anecdotal evidence, but I’m pretty positive I’m not the only person who’s ever been told by a guild leader something akin to “sure, playing SV is fine, but if we already have too many (which guilds always do) or there’s a cap on melee for a fight we need you to change.” It got to where I only played it on farm and became a pain to carry 3 gear sets.

To be fair, it was a pretty good spec in Legion (damage wise and a really engaging playstyle), but its also true that for many guilds, that's the worse spec cause there's already a lot of melee spec and having range classes, is sometimes better.

It just bothers me that with Legion gone and the Artifact gone, some spec lost a lot, and then got small tweaks that try to fill the holes that the lack of Artifact left and are normally found... wanting

[F Rm]

To be fair, it was a pretty good spec in Legion (damage wise and a really engaging playstyle), but its also true that for many guilds, that's the worse spec cause there's already a lot of melee spec and having range classes, is sometimes better.

It just bothers me that with Legion gone and the Artifact gone, some spec lost a lot, and then got small tweaks that try to fill the holes that the lack of Artifact left and are normally found... wanting

While I personally, hold no love for MSV(neither version that we've had), I can certainly understand why many players like it/them(both versions).
It's just plain sad how they went about it all, when implementing it. A melee spec for this class, as a base idea, wouldn't be like either of the 3 specs we had at the time. If they wanted us to have one, they should've made it a 4th addition from the start.

But yeah, we are where we are now, best to just do that for RSV instead.

I agree, what they did going from Legion into BfA and with the removal of artifacts, in combination with the underwhelming additions(or lack thereof) from BfA itself...it just doesn't feel all that fun anymore. Legion itself had some interesting ideas towards base concepts, though some of the decisions that led to the end results which we got, weren't the best ones(removal of RSV being one of those).


Happy New Year btw everyone!
Here's to hoping for some of the feedback given, that it will actually inspire changes going into Shadowlands.

[Vees]

I still haven't gotten over this, and I keep checking forums to see if it's been fixed. I miss wow, but ranged Survival was the only class I really loved. It's absurd that they made a one spec a Ranger, another a Trapper, and the third a remote controlled pet spec. Hunters as I remember them are completely missing from the game now. Fuck you Ion!

[F Rm]

I still haven't gotten over this, and I keep checking forums to see if it's been fixed. I miss wow, but ranged Survival was the only class I really loved. It's absurd that they made a one spec a Ranger, another a Trapper, and the third a remote controlled pet spec. Hunters as I remember them are completely missing from the game now.

There are many things I would like for to come back as well. RSV being one of those(top of the lost).

We are closing in on the time during the year when the alpha for BfA had gone up so, who knows, hopefully it won't be too long now until we see something for Shadowlands as well.

I'm just guessing/hoping here ofc. I just remember that I got on the alpha for BfA in february and that expansion came out in...september, if my memory serves me right. Would like it if Shadowlands had a longer testing phase than BfA did.

But yeah, crossing fingers for some more in-depth stuff to come out soon and that they are for the better.

[Bepples]

I'm just guessing/hoping here ofc. I just remember that I got on the alpha for BfA in february and that expansion came out in...september, if my memory serves me right. Would like it if Shadowlands had a longer testing phase than BfA did.

BFA came out August 14th 2018

Funnily enough the testing phase of BFA had a similar length to most expansions. I don't remember exactly when alpha started but it was something like 5-6 months from alpha to release, which is in line with every other expansion except for Legion which entered testing much earlier than normal.

[F Rm]

BFA came out August 14th 2018

Funnily enough the testing phase of BFA had a similar length to most expansions. I don't remember exactly when alpha started but it was something like 5-6 months from alpha to release, which is in line with every other expansion except for Legion which entered testing much earlier than normal.

I just double-checked as me not remembering bugged me a bit :/

BfA started the alpha in early February and went into the beta in late April.

You were right on the launch though that it was in August.

I remembered February for the alpha as my launcher was updated to include it on February 15th(at least this was when I noticed that it had appeared).

But yeah, anyway...

I do still hope that we(those invited that is) have some proper time to test everything, and that feedback provided is taken into consideration.

Systems such as the Soulbindings(talent thingies), Covenant abilities, along with Legendary item creation for Torghast, not to mention classes in general. Just to name a few...

[F Rm]

Update/edit

Added a 4th bonus trait/set bonus idea to the core concept/OP.

(4) Quick Shot now triggers the passive effect "Exotic Munitions" when it hits an enemy target.

The goal with this is to allow for some further player-specific choices to be made during combat.

And since there are certain talent options that benefit/enhance the Exotic munitions-passive , this could potentially allow for even more variations in your preferred playstyle.

The talent T.N.T. comes up as one example.

With the above effect you could reliably manage 2 Explosive Shots(on multiple targets) at the same time.
When combined with other effects and talents ofc.
If this is something one might find interesting or useful.

There is ofc more to it than this. Other impacts this bonus effect might have can be worked out from the OP.

[Vees]

So you end up with this amalgamated mess of a spec with no core baseline identity and instead has to pick and choose its identity through two strictly distinct talent "lanes", therefore effectively having 2 "microspecs" in one with no talent options to explore either identity as all your talent choices went towards picking your identity in the first place

This is really how the Hunter got into such a dreadful state to begin with.

1) First they took MM, and made it a Ranger to satisfy the Ranger cries.
2) Then they took BM and dumbed it down even further so it was little more than a pet remote control for new players.
3) Finally, they took SV and made it melee spec for God knows what reason. I don't remember anybody ever asking for this.

So now if I want to play a ranged hunter with a pet, I have one choice. I used to have three choices for play-style.

This whole mess was caused by the devs trying to cram 6 different play-styles into three specs. In the process, they screwed over the existing hunter population - especially those who played RSV.

[threads]

I still haven't gotten over this, and I keep checking forums to see if it's been fixed. I miss wow, but ranged Survival was the only class I really loved. It's absurd that they made a one spec a Ranger, another a Trapper, and the third a remote controlled pet spec. Hunters as I remember them are completely missing from the game now. Fuck you Ion!

yep same for me. ever since legion i feel like i have no main char. just pick a random class and mess around til im bored and quit again. not only did i lose my fav spec but the whole class is just so gutted and shit now i can't even play it.

[F Rm]

This is really how the Hunter got into such a dreadful state to begin with.

1) First they took MM, and made it a Ranger to satisfy the Ranger cries.
2) Then they took BM and dumbed it down even further so it was little more than a pet remote control for new players.
3) Finally, they took SV and made it melee spec for God knows what reason. I don't remember anybody ever asking for this.

So now if I want to play a ranged hunter with a pet, I have one choice. I used to have three choices for play-style.

This whole mess was caused by the devs trying to cram 6 different play-styles into three specs. In the process, they screwed over the existing hunter population - especially those who played RSV.

I wouldn't mind if MM had some options to rely on pets as well but, if they bring back RSV and include optional ways to further do so, I'm well on board with MM keeping it's niche of a "petless" spec.

We're missing that spec which, while having a focus on ranged combat, still retains the older ways of the class with pet reliance(in case needed/wanted) but otherwise you could also out out of it. In the modern game, I'm all for allowing for pet reliance through certain talents and such, to be entirely optional for specs that aren't BM(specs that are themed around pets).

RSV would be a perfect choice for this approach. The DoT ramp-up style of it also happens to suit pet tanking extremely well, for those cases where we rely on a pet for tanking. Contrary to specs relying on big-hitters.

So now if I want to play a ranged hunter with a pet, I have one choice. I used to have three choices for play-style.

Yep.

yep same for me. ever since legion i feel like i have no main char. just pick a random class and mess around til im bored and quit again. not only did i lose my fav spec but the whole class is just so gutted and shit now i can't even play it.

I want to remain hopeful for Shadowlands but...yeah, we'll see.

[Vees]

I want to remain hopeful for Shadowlands but...yeah, we'll see.

I have little hope for Shadowlands. For some unknown reason, Ion is still in charge (don't know how this is possible after the BfA mess with RNG and the Legion outcry for pruning), and he is the same person who said "That led to us pulling back a little bit further than we should have" and “Overall we're happy with how corruption is playing out." Seriously, this guy doesn't think he makes mistakes despite all evidence to the contrary.

So no, I don't have much hope for Shadowlands if Ion is still there. Doesn't keep me from posting about it. Sooner or later somebody will get their head out of their *** and fix us..

[F Rm]

I have little hope for Shadowlands. For some unknown reason, Ion is still in charge (don't know how this is possible after the BfA mess with RNG and the Legion outcry for pruning), and he is the same person who said "That led to us pulling back a little bit further than we should have" and “Overall we're happy with how corruption is playing out." Seriously, this guy doesn't think he makes mistakes despite all evidence to the contrary.

So no, I don't have much hope for Shadowlands if Ion is still there. Doesn't keep me from posting about it. Sooner or later somebody will get their head out of their *** and fix us..

Whether Ion, and/or now with Holinka overseeing class design will eventually turn out for the better..

We'll see.

Like you said, until we see that they actually start to correct what was done wrong(with RSV) I'm gonna continue to post about it as well.

In short, removing it was neither warranted nor necessary for MSV to be able to become part of this class.

And I really hope that they realise this sooner rather than later. As for how to fix such a mistake in the most...diplomatic/unintrusive of ways, yeah, the 4th spec approach would do it.

[Vees]

Whether Ion, and/or now with Holinka overseeing class design will eventually turn out for the better..

We'll see.

What worries me is that they used "Hunter's Mark" and "Eyes of the Beast" as examples of things they plan to make baseline.

Those are the two most underwhelming things I can imagine. I would take odd that "Hunter's Mark" will only be a damage buff too.

If they were going to fix it, they could have mentioned almost any other ability we have been begging to get back. There are at least a dozen things I would rather get back than those two things.

But they chose those two.

[F Rm]

What worries me is that they used "Hunter's Mark" and "Eyes of the Beast" as examples of things they plan to make baseline.

Those are the two most underwhelming things I can imagine. I would take odd that "Hunter's Mark" will only be a damage buff too.

If they were going to fix it, they could have mentioned almost any other ability we have been begging to get back. There are at least a dozen things I would rather get back than those two things.

But they chose those two.

Been mentioning this since we saw it announced basically.

I would not mind if Hunter's Mark came back, as long as they remove the part of it's design that is the added passive bonus to damage.
They should make it entirely situational by allowing for it to be a stealth-prevention mechanic, and nothing else.
That's ofc useful and I understand why many would want that.

But, the damage "bonus" won't actually be a bonus since that damage, would be taken away from our other baseline abilities to compensate.

So again, keep it, but remove the bonus to damage.

As for Eyes of the Beast. It's a flavor-ability. I know many hunters who would love to have it(myself included) just for random fun stuff.

If they were going to fix it, they could have mentioned almost any other ability we have been begging to get back. There are at least a dozen things I would rather get back than those two things.

A while back on the EU forums I posted a reply in a thread there where people were asked what they wanted back for the class.

Basically, other than what I'm hosting this topic for(the return of RSV), I would very much like the following to be added/returned to us:

• Tranquilizing Shot - instead of the pet based version that we now have. And, the pet-abilities should be reworked to being defensives(removing harmful magical effects from friendly units)

• Distracting Shot - just for situations where it’s useful, like on Archimonde in HFC during WoD. And, you should be able to combine this with Misdirection to reliably misdirect a single enemy/stray mob back to the tank(or your pet).

• Master’s Call - baseline again. Simply put, if I have a pet, then I should be able to use Master’s Call, no matter what pet it is. Not just with Cunning-pets.

• Aspect of the Fox(WoD-version) - just with a type of Sated-debuff like from Bloodlust or Timewarp, maybe with a 30 second timer or so. It has the potential to make Hunter’s more desirable in general, without heavily promoting “class stacking”.

I think that's it for now. Maybe I can come up with something more later on...

[Axram]

it annoys the hell out of me that specs like DH and Assassin Rogue will all their self healing and damage can continue to dominate

but ranged SV was considered too OP and was removed, if anything we need the Range SV spec now more than ever to compete with the DH/Rogue classes as a counter.

i miss Ranged SV so bad im actually considering playing a private server and leaving Retail behind..


i have attempted to play MM like Ranged SV in arena using explosive shot , serpent sting , scatter shot etc but its just not the same

[F Rm]

but ranged SV was considered too OP and was removed, if anything we need the Range SV spec now more than ever to compete with the DH/Rogue classes as a counter.

I can't speak for the part about it being OP. At least I've never seen anything from the devs about this having an impact on decisions. But I doubt it honestly.

I couldn't agree more though that we do need a spec for the Hunter class with a focus on the ranged weapon, but is not tied to relying on pets as heavily as BM is.
Nor a spec with movement restrictions like MM has.

Ofc a spec such as this could not have the same big hitters or high burst potential as for example MM does. Hence why a DoT-based spec would fit that goal very well.
And yes, ofc this has a lot to do with the numbers in particular as to how good the spec would actually be.

i have attempted to play MM like Ranged SV in arena using explosive shot , serpent sting , scatter shot etc but its just not the same

I guess it can depend on what an individual is after in terms of theme and gameplay.

If you're only after a ranged spec which has access to abilities that cater towards the enhancement of ammunition/arrows then MM can provide that to a degree.

But MM is not a spec designed to explore what it means to be a Munitions Expert(or a Trapper for that matter, like old RSV). It does not really have any focus on enhancing any "special shots".

And in the end, MM, even if it would have some of those capabilities, it still would not play as the old RSV. The very core of MM is far to different from how old RSV played for that to ever be possible to achieve as it is now. Unless if they were to suddenly change A LOT of what MM is designed to be.

[F Rm]

Changed the design of the level 100 talent: Rapid Recuperation.

Old design: Whenever your pet hits an enemy with it's Basic Attack(Bite/Claw/Smack) the remaining cooldown of Rapid Fire is reduced by 2 seconds.
During Rapid Fire, each of your pet's Basic Attacks have a high chance to hit 1 additional time without consuming additional Focus.

New design: Damage caused by Explosive Shot have a chance to reduce the remaining cooldown of Rapid Fire by 1 second.
Whenever Lock & Load procs, this causes the next Explosive Shot fired to have a 100% chance for each tick to reduce the remaining cooldown of Rapid Fire by 1 second.

---
Reason for edit:
I liked how the base function of the talent allowed for an increase to the number of times when you can take advantage of your major cooldown: Rapid Fire.
And while I do want there to be some optional reliance on the use of pets for this spec(through talent choices), I felt that a level 100 talent focusing on the major cooldown should be themed after the primary fantasy of the spec.

[FossilFree]

The problem is, most of the old survival stuff has already been rolled into either BM or MM. I do like the idea of a 4th spec that is ranged and does more magical damage, like old survival, but it would need to be almost entirely new stuff at this point. Since Black Arrow is still available, build a Dark Ranger spec around it with shadow damage and a few necromancer-type abilities instead.