Changes in 9.0 to M+ loot tables

[Thor79]

Morning Folks.
I took a look through the first pages, didn't see a topic on this, if I messed up, I'm sorry, please delete it.

LINK:https://www.wowhead.com/news=317979/...on-reward-redu

So, this was rather disturbing to me as a father to be with a busy job - my wow time was already limited, and it's about to become less. The gist of this is, they are going to make M+ loot lower ilvl than heroic raiding, we already know there will only be one piece of loot per M+ dungeon.

- I'm a player who gets to play in 30-45 minute chunks. M+ was perfect for me, as a former Mythic raider. I got to progress on my schedule, either in a PUG or with a group of friends. I could start a new alt and gear it up myself in M+ without having to commit to a raiding schedule. It's not as challenging as Mythic raiding at the level I play (15-18), but it's something.

- It will either take a TON longer to gear up in M+, or they are going to have alternate loot paths.

What's your guys thoughts on this? Am I feeling upset too early? I really don't like it. It feels more like they are trying to push their "raid or die" approach, yet again. I'm sure this will make a lot of (non WF) raiders happy - they won't have to do a ton of M+ grinding, and their gear drops will be slightly better.

[Kumorii]

Curious what baseline means and what would influence it.

[ymirsson]

wait, +15 gives 3 ilvl less then hc raiding. Will your success and personal well being hinge on that?

[Thor79]

@ymirsson no, that's not what I was insinuating. It's just a combination of things - quite a bit less loot (3 pieces for a timed key now, 1 then), plus lower ilvl loot (draw in less people looking to gear). I feel like it's going to put a crimp on the M+ as its own progression path.

[Aggrophobic]

Yeah, you have to raid to do well in mythic + now.
For most classes this was already a must but the rewards from dungeons are rather pointless now.

It's back to the WoD system where you either raid or you're not playing the game right. The same goes for PvP by the way, you need raid gear there as well.

[infinitemeridian]

Yeah, you have to raid to do well in mythic + now.
For most classes this was already a must but the rewards from dungeons are rather pointless now.

It's back to the WoD system where you either raid or you're not playing the game right. The same goes for PvP by the way, you need raid gear there as well.

Weekly chest gives mythic raid ilvl gear, what are you talking about.

[ymirsson]

But m+ is already capped at +15, so if you need to increase your ilvl because you dont have the throughput for higher keys, there is no way around mythic raids. i see only a miniscule difference to that in SL.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Curious what baseline means and what would influence it.

Probably weekly effects and running keys higher than 15 as it is currently.

I guess Blizzard realized that the only thing keeping mid-tier raiding propped up is loot and m+ made that part redundant.

[Thor79]

@ymirsson so what I'm getting at - is I almost exclusively gear through M+. It's what I have time for - that, emissary, etc. I understand that limits me even in THIS expansion to about 16-18 keys, I'm OK with that. That gearing path is being removed, for all intensive purposes - you can't really predictably gear up through M+ with a 20% chance of getting ANYTHING per 30-45 minute run.

This is very obviously an attempt to funnel people into raiding. I have no time or interest in that. That's what concerns me, not the ilevel of the gear, etc. Just the fact that the only real opportunity i had to experience any challenging content at all is going to be severely reduced.

[Kumorii]

Probably weekly effects and running keys higher than 15 as it is currently.

I guess Blizzard realized that the only thing keeping mid-tier raiding propped up is loot and m+ made that part redundant.

Currently timed means an extra chest... so I guess that will carry on as well.

[Nuciek]

Morning Folks.
I took a look through the first pages, didn't see a topic on this, if I messed up, I'm sorry, please delete it.

LINK:https://www.wowhead.com/news=317979/...on-reward-redu

So, this was rather disturbing to me as a father to be with a busy job - my wow time was already limited, and it's about to become less. The gist of this is, they are going to make M+ loot lower ilvl than heroic raiding, we already know there will only be one piece of loot per M+ dungeon.

- I'm a player who gets to play in 30-45 minute chunks. M+ was perfect for me, as a former Mythic raider. I got to progress on my schedule, either in a PUG or with a group of friends. I could start a new alt and gear it up myself in M+ without having to commit to a raiding schedule. It's not as challenging as Mythic raiding at the level I play (15-18), but it's something.

- It will either take a TON longer to gear up in M+, or they are going to have alternate loot paths.

What's your guys thoughts on this? Am I feeling upset too early? I really don't like it. It feels more like they are trying to push their "raid or die" approach, yet again. I'm sure this will make a lot of (non WF) raiders happy - they won't have to do a ton of M+ grinding, and their gear drops will be slightly better.

I had numbers in different post but the issue that you miss is that M+ right now was a loot fest. It was the only true way of gearing up a character in BFA, be it PvP, M+ or raiding. You got the gear the quickest by spamming M+ which is a problem and looks like they are trying to fix it and put every gearing path on around the same level.

Raids give good loot but are locked behind weekly lockouts.
M+ gives the most loot by being able to spam run them, but when you reach a certain level (210 in that case) you rely on weekly chest.
PvP... well, PvP gearing is shit at the moment, but at least they promised to fix it.


I agree there that should be a way for M+ players to get mythic quality gear too in more reliable way and there was this idea that I actually liked:
- Increase end of dungeon loot rewards and made them scale up to +20.
- Limit the rewards you get each week like you limit them in Visions (so you get one mythic item drop from +20, and if you complete another +20 you get heroic item level)

This way M+ players would be able to get the best gear but would be limited in number of high level gear they could get each week. It would also mean that people wouldn't be forced to spam M+ to grind their BiS gear because they have limted chances to get those items anyway (just like raiders).

[Thor79]

Hi @Nuciek I think this looks like a reasonable compromise. I didn't think about it that way - M+ is probably too effective for loot. I can gear an alt up to 465 in a matter of days. It doesn't have to be THAT fast - but 20% chance per dungeon + lower ilvl is going to make it so a lot of heroic raiders won't bother unless there is a specific trinket or something they are chasing. I just see it limiting the pool of M+ players significantly, and thus making it less viable.

[Adramelch]

Hi @Nuciek I think this looks like a reasonable compromise. I didn't think about it that way - M+ is probably too effective for loot. I can gear an alt up to 465 in a matter of days. It doesn't have to be THAT fast - but 20% chance per dungeon + lower ilvl is going to make it so a lot of heroic raiders won't bother unless there is a specific trinket or something they are chasing. I just see it limiting the pool of M+ players significantly, and thus making it less viable.

But they will still be doing their weekly keys and probably more than 1 since 4 and 10 runs now unlock an extra option in the vault (the latter being less likely ofc).

[Thor79]

But they will still be doing their weekly keys and probably more than 1 since 4 and 10 runs now unlock an extra option in the vault (the latter being less likely ofc).

That's also probably true. I still think you will see a huge drop-off in the low-mid community - up to 15-16 keys. The people who push really competitively will be doing Mythic raiding to supplement their gear anyway, so that won't affect them.

[apelsinjuice]

Obviously targeted at bringing back some the value of raiding below mythic level again, raiding heroic has been useless in BFA with no set bonuses and same or better itemlevel from just spamming mythics, also only 1 item at end of dungeon instead of 2 or 3, m+ will only be your one and done for the week now unless you want to fill up your vault with more items to pick from

[Aggrophobic]

Weekly chest gives mythic raid ilvl gear, what are you talking about.

Yeah, one (maybe) random item every week and it's still not as good as half the bosses in the raid. It'll take players months to get one set of gear and that'll be a random set of gear. Sounds great!
But hey, I don't mind. I raid.

[Grimbold21]

I mean, I haven't done a +10 since pre-N'zoth, so I don't really know what this thing about M+ being a loot fest is.

Still doing low keys for a chance a 1 single item.

[Aggrophobic]

Hi @Nuciek I think this looks like a reasonable compromise. I didn't think about it that way - M+ is probably too effective for loot. I can gear an alt up to 465 in a matter of days. It doesn't have to be THAT fast - but 20% chance per dungeon + lower ilvl is going to make it so a lot of heroic raiders won't bother unless there is a specific trinket or something they are chasing. I just see it limiting the pool of M+ players significantly, and thus making it less viable.

You saying it takes much longer to do gear up an alt in a raid?
Doubt it. This time around it'll take a week or two in raids and 2-3 month in dungeons.

[Thor79]

Obviously targeted at brining back up some the value of raiding below mythic level again, raiding heroic has been useless in BFA with no set bonuses and same or better itemlevel from just spamming mythics

Agreed. The design in BfA was pretty poor. This is the obvious target, for sure. I just wish they would not nerf the amount of gear drops from M+ so hard. I get reducing it to maybe 2 items - but down from 3 to 1?

- - - Updated - - -

You saying it takes much longer to do gear up an alt in a raid?
Doubt it. This time around it'll take a week or two in raids and 2-3 month in dungeons.

Oh no, I'm not saying it takes longer in a raid, at least right now. In a new raid, with everyone in blues, absolutely will take longer, but still way less than M+

[PointerToAddress]

@Thor79 I don't have Beta so I can't verify it, but I was watching Sloot do some M+ and he was getting 2 pieces of loot at the end of a run. AFAIK it's 1 piece of you don't finish in time, 1 more if you do, so total of 2 if you do clear in time. It was a couple of weeks ago tho so they might have changed it.