Genocide On The Border

[Thelxi]

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

I understand the confusion, but feel free to realize that the UN did not have you in mind when they agreed to the CPPCG and articulated the resolution.

[Paranoid Android]

I'm sure the 'pro-life' crowd is very mad at this.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I understand the confusion, but feel free to realize that the UN did not have you in mind when they agreed to the CPPCG and articulated the resolution.

Your absolutely right I’m not relevant to the UN in any way, that doesn’t change the definition which is sitting right there incontestable.

[Underverse]

Horrific, but it's one rogue doctor. Characterizing it as a genocide is a bit much.

[Thelxi]

Your absolutely right I’m not relevant to the UN in any way, that doesn’t change the definition which is sitting right there incontestable.

Indeed, but you are also not quite aware that the definition you are looking at was the UN's 1948 legal definition meant to be absorbed by governments in order to prevent another holocaust.

If you knew the first thing about what you are quoting, you'd know that this law was first enforced more than fifty years later to convict Akayesu. Ten years earlier Saddam Hussein almost came into contact with it, but he was executed before his trial. The only other time this law was relevant to a conviction of genocide (or at least violating the CPPCG provisions) was in the Bosnia and Herzegovina v Serbia and Montenegro case. This adds up to three instances of genocide in over 70 years, as so defined and convicted by the law in your quote.

Of course feel free to argue that we have the fourth case on our hands here.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Indeed, but you are also not quite aware that the definition you are looking at was the UN's 1948 legal definition meant to be absorbed by governments in order to prevent another holocaust.

If you knew the first thing about what you are quoting, you'd know that this law was first enforced more than fifty years later to convict Akayesu. Ten years earlier Saddam Hussein almost came into contact with it, but he was executed before his trial. The only other time this law was relevant to a conviction of genocide (or at least violating the CPPCG provisions) was in the Bosnia and Herzegovina v Serbia and Montenegro case. This adds up to three instances of genocide in over 70 years, as so defined and convicted by the law in your quote.

Of course feel free to argue that we have the fourth case on our hands here.

Failures to act don’t change the definition just like a cop letting some one get away with murder doesn’t change what murder means.

[Tuor]

How can people do this to other people, is far beyond my comprehension.

[Xeones]

Honestly wasn't expecting the alt righters to go with gas lighting. I expected them to straight up defend this.

[Thelxi]

Failures to act don’t change the definition just like a cop letting some one get away with murder doesn’t change what murder means.

Right, but you did just ask that very same cop to provide you with the definition of murder.

But don't worry I'll get off my soapbox now. I think it's pretty clear to anyone who gives a shit that genocide is a word that carries tremendous weight as it describes some of humanity's darkest moments. Just try and focus on the heinous crimes at this facility and leave the sensationalism to Fox.

[JohnBrown1917]

Honestly wasn't expecting the alt righters to go with gas lighting. I expected them to straight up defend this.

Atleast one of them is defending it.

[Themius]

I understand why you would be confused, but it is not. If common sense is not enough, going to Lemkin's own definition you will quickly find out that according to him, genocide:

"is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves."

Unfortunately, I know that this is not enough to stir your common sense, so lets go a bit deeper to hopefully teach you and others the gravity and scale of the word.

Destexhe, Rwanda and Genocide in the 20th Century:
"Genocide is a crime on a different scale to all other crimes against humanity and implies an intention to completely exterminate the chosen group."
"Genocide is therefore both the gravest and greatest of the crimes against humanity"
He even warned that liberal use of the word makes it "dangerously commonplace".

Michael Ignatieff at one of his Harvard lectures elaborated:
"Those who should use the word genocide never let it slip their mouths. Those who unfortunately do use it, banalise it into a validation of every kind of victimhood"
He was talking about ignorant use of the word in regard to actual slavery btw, so imagine what he'd have to say to anyone pushing the word here.

Just in case the morbid nature of the word hasn't dawned on you yet, here is a list of genocides that wikipedia thinks fit the UN's 1948 CPPCG:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tion_campaigns
Have a gander at the smallest-scale genocide on that list and look at the death toll. Ask yourself where this doctor's "genocide" would fit on that list.

Of course wikipedia is not a great academic source, so maybe the PITF will have a better chance at drilling in which events constitute genocide.

Now, if it turns out that this doctor was operating within a larger scheme, especially if government officials are implicated, then it might start looking like genocide, assuming his behavior stretches decades and thousands of victims. If it turns out that such an extremely unlikely scheme involved and occured at multiple facilities, then the word can start being used in an intelligent and more responsible manner to refer to this situation. Until then, saying this is genocide is nothing more than populist hyperbole, which of course we are all too familiar with these days.

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS

Calling the next step of sterilisation genocide is "hyperbole" are the concentrations camps also hyperbole???

Intention to exterminate a group... what do you call forced sterilisation? What do you call sterilisation and then deporting? Especially as there is a very specific case (I can't recall the exact country) where America sterilised and deported women leading to a population collapse over decades that affects them to this day.

we have had many many many instances of this happening throughout America's history. I do not doubt the longer this goes on the more and more we will learn about this.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Right, but you did just ask that very same cop to provide you with the definition of murder.

But don't worry I'll get off my soapbox now. I think it's pretty clear to anyone who gives a shit that genocide is a word that carries tremendous weight as it describes some of humanity's darkest moments. Just try and focus on the heinous crimes at this facility and leave the sensationalism to Fox.

And when they give the proper definition there failure to act changes nothing.

You’ll also never pull your self out of the muck that is your “soapbox”.

[Themius]

I understand the confusion, but feel free to realize that the UN did not have you in mind when they agreed to the CPPCG and articulated the resolution.

Why? Are Americans exempt from horrors? Is systematic destruction of people, not genocide when America does it?

[Thelxi]

And when they give the proper definition there failure to act changes nothing.

You’ll also never pull your self out of the muck that is your “soapbox”.

I would never call you muck, and I certainly wouldn't enter you lol.

[Themius]

Hey remember when this happened?

https://fee.org/articles/the-us-gove...eruvian-women/

The U.S. Government Led a Program That Forcibly Sterilized Thousands of Peruvian Women

The program is said to have led to the forced sterilization of over 200,000 women in the late 1990s.

As with so many government coups and policies of questionable morality found in Latin America, we find the hand of the US government. The National Catholic Register reported on Tuesday that the US Agency for International Development—the US's primary foreign "aid" agency—had essentially taken control of the Peruvian national health system during the period of the sterilizations:

This was genocide, and what is happening now seems to be just the beginning. Who knows what is happening elsewhere. While it sounds extreme, what is outlandish is the fact i can say these things with the utmost seriousness and fully expect the worse to come. Did anyone expect rampant raping of children and sex abuse at the concentration camps? What about there being concentration camps to begin with! What about children dying and being left to die by neglect? did anyone expect America to send back credible asylum seekers to an area they don't allow Americans to travel due to KIDNAPPING RISK leading to a cuban kidnapping crisis on the border with cubans being buried in mass graves when their family can't pay? Did anyone expect all of that?

Well... the apologist and the person calling what I am saying hyperbolic probably didn't. Instead what happens is they shift the Overton window of just how unacceptable something has to be before they say "oh shit we're in a genocide"

As recently as 20 odd years ago America was sterilising hundreds of thousands of Peruvians. You honestly think that can't happen or already is happening now?

We have literally people in the government that are okay with genocide. You have that bitch of a woman saying she feels nothing for the children as they were being ripped away, and emotionally terrorised for life.

- - - Updated - - -

I would never call you muck, and I certainly wouldn't enter you lol.

I'm not sure if you are aware but genocides have a start. We are at the start of a genocide. Whether I am at the start middle or end of a movie, the movie is a movie. So as we are at the start of a genocide we are literally in a genocide.

We have people in concentration camps... with little regard for their well being with at least one facility sterilising women.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I would never call you muck, and I certainly wouldn't enter you lol.

Of course not you’d never want to touch any one who isn’t neck deep in genocide denial some thing of quality might rub off on you and it would ruin the solid 0 you have now.

[Rozz]

This thread will remain open since similar threads are likely to be made.

Stay on topic. Do not derail to deflect about other human rights violations to change the topic, debate the semantics of genocide, nation bash, etc. Focus on the actual subject manner and stay civil.

This warning along with others will be added to the OP as needed.

[Shadowferal]

Hey remember when this happened?

https://fee.org/articles/the-us-gove...eruvian-women/






This was genocide, and what is happening now seems to be just the beginning. Who knows what is happening elsewhere. While it sounds extreme, what is outlandish is the fact i can say these things with the utmost seriousness and fully expect the worse to come. Did anyone expect rampant raping of children and sex abuse at the concentration camps? What about there being concentration camps to begin with! What about children dying and being left to die by neglect? did anyone expect America to send back credible asylum seekers to an area they don't allow Americans to travel due to KIDNAPPING RISK leading to a cuban kidnapping crisis on the border with cubans being buried in mass graves when their family can't pay? Did anyone expect all of that?

Well... the apologist and the person calling what I am saying hyperbolic probably didn't. Instead what happens is they shift the Overton window of just how unacceptable something has to be before they say "oh shit we're in a genocide"

As recently as 20 odd years ago America was sterilising hundreds of thousands of Peruvians.

I'm not sure if you are aware but genocides have a start. We are at the start of a genocide. Whether I am at the start middle or end of a movie, the movie is a movie. So as we are at the start of a genocide we are literally in a genocide.

We have people in concentration camps... with little regard for their well being with at least one facility sterilising women.

So every president since Clinton is a problem..
[Infraction]

[Themius]

So every president since Clinton is a problem..

Explain what this post is trying to accomplish.

[Shadowferal]

Explain what this post is trying to accomplish.

That you clearly don't believe that there will be any presidential administration that you will ever support.