With no titanforging we need more stats on gear

[arkanon]

No, we dont. Linear gearing is a massive plus for me.

[Kaver]

I am 100% happy they removed titanforging in Shadowlands. However. Every single item, except trinkets basically, is like this:

Stamina
Int/Str/Agi
Secondary Stat #1
Secondary Stat #2

This was OK in Classic/TBC/WotLK, but there we had stats like % crit, % hit rate, armor penetration, Fire Damage, Armor etc. We no longer have this extencive amount of stats.

So with less "bad stats" means less "bad items". Less "bad items" then again means less situations where we get excited for a "good item"?

Do we need more different kinds of stats on gear?

As long as it is not something which rng procs on gear like titanforging or corruption.

[munkeyinorbit]

Disn't the loot awuisition rate drop drastically from BfA to SL?

I would only agree to add tank and healer stats back. The rest can stay dead.

Then a tank doesn't turn up and you are screwed. Need an extra healer? Tuff shit. Your sp has no heal stats so is garbage. See you next week.

[dcc626]

no

the removal of titanforging means we get BiS back
we can also add gem slots to some pieces
we need set bonuses back

we dont need set bonuses back. people complaining CONSTANTLY about borrowed power. All tier sets are is borrowqed poweer. Power you replace every 6 months.

no thanks.

[Kralljin]

Then a tank doesn't turn up and you are screwed. Need an extra healer? Tuff shit. Your sp has no heal stats so is garbage. See you next week.

Or just someone else has collected tank / heal gear?
You know, how people used to do it in the past?

Like, those things have existed in the game for nearly a decade, yet people still somehow managed to put raids together, even when a Tank / Heal didn't show up.

[dcc626]

Yes! Please, bring more stats back! The current system is so terrible boring.

i mean, people want boring. they want to be told whats best, so they can play whatever fotm spec they are told to. they want the ability to change everything whenever they want, without haviong to do anything extra.

nothing is more boring than being the best at everything.

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I don't want more stats until we can actually control what stats we get on gear(Reforging). Otherwise its enough as it is.

well, since reforging isnt comiong back anytime soon, we should be fine.

[razorpax]

we dont need set bonuses back. people complaining CONSTANTLY about borrowed power. All tier sets are is borrowqed poweer. Power you replace every 6 months.

no thanks.

the difference between gear sets and the borrowed power weve been getting is the sets are always a bonus
they are targetable
they are an extra on top of your character

it adds flavor and right now we can have dungeon sets and raid sets

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i mean, people want boring. they want to be told whats best, so they can play whatever fotm spec they are told to. they want the ability to change everything whenever they want, without haviong to do anything extra.

nothing is more boring than being the best at everything.

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well, since reforging isnt comiong back anytime soon, we should be fine.

you are never the best at everything
taht is just an idiotic argument spread throughout the community because its easier to make up stuff than address the real issues

the game has been the same for over a decade and we had control over what we were able to be good at through farming gear which afaik was actually doing something. Now we no longer have the rng boost and players try using it as justification to say gear is super boring. I prefer to have my games outside of the casino

[Metrox]

I am 100% happy they removed titanforging in Shadowlands. However. Every single item, except trinkets basically, is like this:

Stamina
Int/Str/Agi
Secondary Stat #1
Secondary Stat #2

This was OK in Classic/TBC/WotLK, but there we had stats like % crit, % hit rate, armor penetration, Fire Damage, Armor etc. We no longer have this extencive amount of stats.

So with less "bad stats" means less "bad items". Less "bad items" then again means less situations where we get excited for a "good item"?

Do we need more different kinds of stats on gear?

No, I don't care to see "of the Wolf, of the Gorilla, etc" back in the game. I disenchanted so much azerite gear that was terrible for my use, that I finally took up Enchanting on all toons just because of the DE money from the AH. Go look down the line of azerite gear on Bloodmallet and and look at all that DE armor. I don't want to be served a bad dinner just so I can appreciate a good meal eventually.

[Great Destiny Man]

I'm not a fan of bringing back archaic designs. Things like Hit and expertise can stay dead, they just aren't interesting stats at all.

[kaminaris]

i mean, people want boring. they want to be told whats best, so they can play whatever fotm spec they are told to. they want the ability to change everything whenever they want, without haviong to do anything extra.

nothing is more boring than being the best at everything.

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well, since reforging isnt comiong back anytime soon, we should be fine.

People want "bis" because they think their current garbage logs is a result of having "non-bis" gear. So they want something to blame on.
The moment they realize it wasn't TF fault they will either get hit by reality hard or find something else to put blame on.

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you are never the best at everything
taht is just an idiotic argument spread throughout the community because its easier to make up stuff than address the real issues

the game has been the same for over a decade and we had control over what we were able to be good at through farming gear which afaik was actually doing something. Now we no longer have the rng boost and players try using it as justification to say gear is super boring. I prefer to have my games outside of the casino

His argument is actually solid, yours is however nostalgia and inability to understand basic issues with static gear design.
First of all RNG did not boost players, I already explained that multiple times using actual math.
So TL;DR your skill still matters a lot more than gear.

Dumb argument is comparison to casinos because if casinos operated like TF I would be millionaire long time ago.
But to understand that you would need to know statistics and math.

[Echo of Soul]

Diminishing returns on secondary stats makes gearing a bit more interesting but I agree that we could use one or two more secondary stats and maybe a variant where the stats are split three ways instead of two.

[VinceVega]

I would like to have HitRating back. Together with reforging.
Not because it is practical or anything. Just for the flavor.

[NineSpine]

It’s amazing how Blizzard has managed to convince people that spreadsheet-generated stat sticks are better than specifically designed gear that is made to provide interesting and varying gameplay.

[locketto]

if you are a loot driven player then you need to gear an alt or sell runs

otherwise take a break

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i never said it didnt

i said removing TF gave us BiS back which is a great thing

we dont need extra stats

so your point is to clear the raid and unsub for 3 months, surely blizzard-activision agrees with you.

[exochaft]

Yes! Please, bring more stats back! The current system is so terrible boring.

From what I've heard from former WoW devs who make posts and do live streams, the change from diverse stats and gear with %stat to stat ratings was because the devs wanted an easier time balancing gear and stats. Limiting the amount of stats and making them rating that scales different with each class gives them a tuning nob that can be used to adjust how well a class scales. Now... that doesn't necessarily mean it's all a good thing for the player as stats will tend to be either not intuitive (how many players know how much rating adds 1% crit/vers/etc.?) or sometimes make it bland for the player. This is where, as a dev, you have to determine what you sacrifice in terms of player experience in order to make balancing easier behind the scenes.

play alts
do pvp
push M+
farm mounts/pets/transmogs
play something else completely


What did people do in wotlk, cata, mop?

Even back when I was raiding whatever the top raiding content was at the timer, whether 25man heroic or the start of mythic raiding,... it was bloody nice to have time off. One of my largest complaints with the direction of WoW and how its content is designed now is that it's exhausting to attempt to achieve the same goals nowadays that were present back then.

For example, I used to get every achievement every expansion... but the increase in volume as well as absurdity of some achievements in terms of busywork and grinding instead of fun has killed that aspect of the game. Final nail in the coffin was WoD archaeology and those bloody perfect solves, I swear Insane in the Membrane is less painful than those (and I got it one month after the achievement first got into the game). Another example is pet/mount collection: it used to be a very small amount of each with maybe some additions for patches, nowadays we're adding hundreds of pets and mounts at an insane rate to where you either need to get very lucky, farm until your eyes bleed out, or just multibox. WF/TF made gear acquisition akin to the examples above, making a potentially never-ending grind in place of what used to be a clear set goal that had an end.

There can be great satisfaction when you can complete content and achieve clear goals, but never-ending and/or vague endpoints do not offer as much satisfaction at all (if any is to be had).

[salate]

So farming one instance for a bis piece of gear will be changed to farming one instance for a bis gear but without a socket or 5-10+ ilvls.
Well, nothing changed. Less excitement only.
On a positive side i wont spend more time on thinking if piece A better than piece B, because there is no more TF around, which is... I liked TF

I like stats like
"string a person with poison for x - dmg"
"get a shield after being struck for 2k dmg"
"get an extra attack for every 10 shots"

That would be great!

[Whiskeyjac]

So farming one instance for a bis piece of gear will be changed to farming one instance for a bis gear but without a socket or 5-10+ ilvls.
Well, nothing changed. Less excitement only.
On a positive side i wont spend more time on thinking if piece A better than piece B, because there is no more TF around, which is... I liked TF

I like stats like
"string a person with poison for x - dmg"
"get a shield after being struck for 2k dmg"
"get an extra attack for every 10 shots"

That would be great!

Can't you just go to a casino if you enjoy gambling that much?

[Sarkli83]

Can you imagine the "this is unbalanced" forum threads these days if additional stats were added to gear?

[pinkz]

i thought titan forged and war forged were gone on the last patch, all the streamers and tubers were doing the rivierdance, doe see doe, etc. but bewildered with corruption system.

i recently took i player into LFR that shows 430 gear, 440 on last two bosses, on a 430 gear boss, when i looted a staff the pop up info said UPGRADED. staff was 445 and had a added gem slot. the following week had a dagger and OH upgrade to 445 from 430 with +speed on one, other +leech, along with a set of bracers go to 440 from 430 with corruption added. none of the pieces say they are TF or WF.

is this a LFR only thing? or just because blizzard no longer labels them everyone thinks its gone?

[Razorice]

Sometimes simplicity is best.