I thought we left the mindset that raiding is better than everything else back in WoD

[munkeyinorbit]

Yup. It would have to take some real dedication to do, though. Like buying some dungeon level gear with pet tokens, doing some pet-battle related quests which unlock heroic dungeon level gear to buy, and so on.

I'm with this guy and I don't care what you elitists say. As per battles are now is obviously not where we need to be to get my mythic gear but maybe we can start of with some 3 man pet battles action. You and two mates go off to raid epic pet battle raids. Kill a boss and get a 1 in 3 chance of some loot. Have two levels. 1 with randoms that reward H loot and one where you have to create your own group that drops mythic. I'd play the fuck out of that.

[gd8]

I would love it if every content-type of gear had its own stat that made it superior in that form of content and you could get top ilvl doing any kind of gear.

Like if raid gear came with the "raid" stat that only worked in raids. PvP gear with a "PvP" stat that only works in PvP. M+ gear for M+. And "world" gear for world content, heroic dungeons, and maybe LFR for the most casual of players.

The gear would still be useful in other types of content but super-good in its tailored content.

who the fuck wants to farm 5 different god damn sets just to do separate activities. you people are insane with this shit

should be 1 set of gear for all activities and that's it.

[arkanon]

who the fuck wants to farm 5 different god damn sets just to do separate activities. you people are insane with this shit

should be 1 set of gear for all activities and that's it.

You are the one suggesting people would farm all 5 sets rather than just the ones that come from the activities they enjoy - to me, THATS insane.

[SanitariumZ]

A mythic raid requires you to get 20+ people. A timed +15 requires 4 pugs and next to no coordination. A mythic raid takes weeks to clear. A timed +15 takes less than an hour. These are not equivalent and should not grant equal gear. It's that simple. This is an MMO; not an arcade game even with Blizzard pushing it in that direction about as much as they possibly can.

How fast can you get mythic quality loot off of doing M+? Least 2 weeks I'd say and that's one item per week off the weekly cache... If you're good enough to be clearing +15s the first week, you should have no trouble finding a guild that can kill the first couple of mythic bosses within the first 2 resets, no? We all know the first couple of bosses are slightly harder than their heroic counterparts and heroic is a joke to the average mythic raider Joe. You don't have to actually clear the raid to get loot.

As for clearing the raid, if you're part of a mediocre guild grp and you can't kill X boss, just wait for the nerfbat. Or just wait in general. Farm what you can and you'll eventually outgear the minimum dps/heal requirements to kill it. Or just keep pulling till the last slowpoke in the raid figures out you don't get to soak weird pools of sh*t on the ground.

You're confusing WF or competitive raiding in general with casual mythic guilds getting CE one month before the next patch hits live or even worse without ever clearing the raid in time. WF raiders are the equivalent to top MDI teams and top30 raiding guilds are the equivalent to high key pushers, you know, the ones that show up in the first couple of pages of R.IO leaderboards. For the rest of the plebs that clear the raid 5 months after its' release, skillwise they are of the same caliber of M+ players that barely hit keystone master.

[gd8]

You are the one suggesting people would farm all 5 sets rather than just the ones that come from the activities they enjoy - to me, THATS insane.

and what if I enjoy all activities? who and where are these people playing this game who only ever do 1 thing and 1 thing only? why should I be punished if I primarily do m+ but also enjoy hopping in to BGs?

[Selastan]

You are entirely delusional, that is not at all how an mmo works, or ANY game. Pet battling is a minigame - i wouldnt say someone who purely plays for pet battles is a "second-class" player, thats unnecessarily dramatic, but they have chosen (yes, take note - its a CHOICE) to partake in an activity well outside the core GEAR PROGRESSION loop of the game. If people want to hang out in the inn and RP, i have zero issues with that, but to expect BIS gear that rivals that of mythic raiders is absolutely insane.

Alright, I think I've given the wrong impression here. I'm just using pet battles as an example because it's sort of the first thing that comes to mind when I think of non-raid or M+ content. I don't even DO pet battles myself.

The point I'm trying to make is that gear progression has become systematic over the years, and it's tiresome. When getting gear is the whole point of the game, I just don't want to feel like I've peaked if I'm not skilled at what shouldn't be a skill-based action RPG, or if I am skilled I shouldn't also have to get an equally skilled group of friends who get together on a schedule to progress. In a fantasy world filled with magic, adventuring shouldn't boil down to raid, raid harder, raid hardest, wait for patch, repeat. Every time I log in, no matter what I can or want to do, I should be able to feel like I could become a more powerful adventurer no matter what I am doing, that a new legendary item could be right around the next corner.

[Swnem]

No, "we" didnt.

[Sansnom]

The gear would still be useful in other types of content but super-good in its tailored content.

The problem with that is not whether the gear is good enough, it is whether it is acceptable by others. We have already seen the steady rise of "requirements" from other players to join their group even though Blizzard own requirements are lower. Even now, item level is not sufficient and players have introduced their own measure with raider.io.

[Echo of Soul]

Why not have multiple paths to gearing, rather than "Raiding has to be the best!"? If you like to Raid, then Raid. If you prefer to do M+, do that. Wjy does one need to automatically have the best rewards?

Because the difficulty is nowhere near being the same. If a m+15 would be as difficult or more difficult than clearing a mythic raid then I'd agree with you.

The difficulty should match the reward, the weekly chest is kind of shit in this regard.

[Sezh]

Not everyone likes to raid all the time... why don't raiders (and apparently the dev team) see that?

Not everyone in CoD like to shoot people all the time... why don't players (and apparently the dev team) see that?

[Frozenbeef]

I'm still amazed that people will do incredibly hard content they don't enjoy like mythic raids just so they can get the best gear (for it to be reset in 6months).

Never understood how people could gain enjoyment of having a high ilevel compared to actually enjoying and playing the games content.

[Aggrophobic]

Raiding should always be the best source of the best gear. Otherwise there's no reason to raid and can spam M+ instead.

But whats the reason to run M+ then?
Or PvP?

[Frozenbeef]

But whats the reason to run M+ then?
Or PvP?

Because they enjoy it?

[ketsui]

imagine still being confused and thinking ilevels were being nerfed from M+ loot after multiple people have explained why it isnt and continuing to argue something that isn't happening. I guess i'll eat popcorn and laugh at this whole thread

[Afenar]

Raiding should always be the best source of the best gear. Otherwise there's no reason to raid and can spam M+ instead.

raiding in 2020 lol

[Devilyaki]

While I don't disagree, what do you need the best gear if you are not tackling the best content. Like if you are not raiding you don't need anything higher than LFR. While some may do high M+, you don't need raid gear for that either, sure it helps, but it's not needed. Same with PvP, and people just doing WQs.

That only really works if each place has its own gear.

[Zmagoslav]

But whats the reason to run M+ then?
Or PvP?

What's the reason to raid on live? or pvp?

[Afenar]

Agree 100% Im totally fine with people spamming their M+ endlessly for loot, no problem at all. But having the loot be equal or better than raid loot is the equivalent of TBC heroics being repeatable and dropping raid loot or better.

I believe loot should be matched with the difficulty and time commitment of the content, as well as the repeatability. Something that is very difficult, requires a strong commitment, and is not spammable should reward high quality loot. Something that is easy, can be done solo, and is spammable should not.

And everything in between. Something like the Mage Tower got it right imo; It was quite difficult, but could be played solo (had to be) so low commitment, and although spammable while active, it was not endlessly spammable at any time. The loot matched that - great unique transmog items.

If raid bosses could just be endlessly spammed like M+ can, then it would be fine for them to be close, but even then, i personally dont think a +15 is equal in difficulty to a mythic raid boss.

someone forgot that it's 2020 year now. your raids is outdated content, wait for next expac and there wont anything higher than 6 ppl content

- - - Updated - - -

What's the reason to raid on live? or pvp?

only an elitist reasons, that's it

[Makorus]

Look at all the people saying that M+ is fun and enjoyable now showing their true face.

Yeah, you only thought it was good because it gave you way too good gear for barely any effort lol

[Kaver]

Yeah, if its not about power progression, I am really not interested. Even less interested in playing alts. I understand other people have different opinions about this, but like everyone in WoW I don't really care about others.

Then I’m really glad that Blizzard listened to us and not you this time. BFA was a hell for alts and many of us get bored with only playing one character in an infinite progression loop. It’s going to be extremely nice that you can feel done for the week on a character. There are so many things to do in WoW so if people feel they need an infinite M+ grind or similar in order to play the game then that’s their problem. Blizzard shouldn’t cater to special needs and make the game worse for the rest of us like they did in BFA.