Legendaries are another lie from Blizzard.

[ihate2beapessimist]

We shouldnt start the expac extremely powerful, the legendaries are decent for what they are.

[dojichan]

You get a unique hub with some special features in it. It has an advancement tree. It gives you an endgame quest chain. It gives access to three personal advancement trees that you can swap between, and those trees can also be slotted with effects.

Did I just describe legion or shadowlands?

It honestly depends on if you are taking your words as exact or as vague. If they are exact you are describing neither legion nor shadow lands. If they are vague you are describing every expansion(and classic).
EXACT:
In legion you had a hub(class hall). It had an advancement tree(research). It had endgame quest chain. You had three personal tress(Artifacts.) wait that is not true for druids(they had 4) or demon hunters(2) so I guess you are not talking about legion.
In shadowlands you get a unique hub...wait no you get access to 4 unique hubs that you can swap between. So I guess you are not talking about shadowlands...
It has an advancement tree...Wait no it has some personal advancement trees(Soulbinds) but it does not have an advancement tree per unique hub
It gives an endgame quest chain...check
It gives three personal advancement trees(soulbinds). Those soulbinds can be slotted(True)

So by exactly what you are saying... Neither game fits it exactly.

VAGUE:
In legion you had a hub(class hall). It had an advancement tree(research). It had endgame quest chain. You had some number of personal tress(Artifacts.). You can slot them with effects(yep with the three slots at the top of the ui)
In shadowlands, you have one unique hub at a time. That hub has an advancement tree(Soulbinds). Has unique trees(also soulbinds). They have effects in them(also soulbinds)
In classic, you have a unique hub(horde vs alliance). It has an advancement tree(talent tree). It has endgame quests. You get some personal trees(also talents). You get effects sloted(based on how you spend talent points)
In Burning Crusade, you have a unique hub(scryer vs aldor). It has an advancement tree(vendor). It has endgame quests. You get a personal tree(talents). You get effects slotted in(based on what you can buy from the vendor)

If you are too vague...everything fits. If you look at exactly what you are saying, then neither fits exactly. It is true that your description is closer to legion and shadowlands then classic. It requires more vagueness to fit classic....But that is just arbitrarily deciding how vague you want to be to make a point...

So instead of repeating an inaccurate or vague statement... Listen to Kaminaris...the games are different at their core...

[Mafic]

No soulbinds/conduits are nowhere near artifact weapons. Two fundamentally different systems.
Covenants are not like class campaign at all. They are like fractions with benefits.

I don't know why people make comparisons that doesn't make sense.

Shadowlands is actually closer to BfA than to legion. Focus isnt about your class but about other faction/s which ultimately doesn't differ much than horde/alliance focus.
Nothing is bound to a single item. No grinding garbo content to get leggos. Conduits are not destroyed on replace and its acquisition is akin to essences.


https://www.wowhead.com/guide=10736/...lbind-conduits

Yeppers.

New expansion is just a copy of BFA but the systems are just front loaded. Lets see if this gamble works.

[NineSpine]

It honestly depends on if you are taking your words as exact or as vague. If they are exact you are describing neither legion nor shadow lands. If they are vague you are describing every expansion(and classic).
EXACT:
In legion you had a hub(class hall). It had an advancement tree(research). It had endgame quest chain. You had three personal tress(Artifacts.) wait that is not true for druids(they had 4) or demon hunters(2) so I guess you are not talking about legion.
In shadowlands you get a unique hub...wait no you get access to 4 unique hubs that you can swap between. So I guess you are not talking about shadowlands...
It has an advancement tree...Wait no it has some personal advancement trees(Soulbinds) but it does not have an advancement tree per unique hub
It gives an endgame quest chain...check
It gives three personal advancement trees(soulbinds). Those soulbinds can be slotted(True)

So by exactly what you are saying... Neither game fits it exactly.

VAGUE:
In legion you had a hub(class hall). It had an advancement tree(research). It had endgame quest chain. You had some number of personal tress(Artifacts.). You can slot them with effects(yep with the three slots at the top of the ui)
In shadowlands, you have one unique hub at a time. That hub has an advancement tree(Soulbinds). Has unique trees(also soulbinds). They have effects in them(also soulbinds)
In classic, you have a unique hub(horde vs alliance). It has an advancement tree(talent tree). It has endgame quests. You get some personal trees(also talents). You get effects sloted(based on how you spend talent points)
In Burning Crusade, you have a unique hub(scryer vs aldor). It has an advancement tree(vendor). It has endgame quests. You get a personal tree(talents). You get effects slotted in(based on what you can buy from the vendor)

If you are too vague...everything fits. If you look at exactly what you are saying, then neither fits exactly. It is true that your description is closer to legion and shadowlands then classic. It requires more vagueness to fit classic....But that is just arbitrarily deciding how vague you want to be to make a point...

So instead of repeating an inaccurate or vague statement... Listen to Kaminaris...the games are different at their core...

That's a whole lot of words to say "TWO CLASSES DIDNT HAVE THREE ADVANCEMENT TREES! GOTCHYA!"

You are being ridiculous to just avoid admitting you were wrong, and you aren't even right on the facts. Every covenant hub, just like class hub, has its own advancement tree for advancing the hub. It's almost exactly the same.

You get a hub. It comes with its own endgame quest chain. The customize the hub with a tree. You get access to some talent-like system that has fixed values and some slotted values. You get some kind of cool hub-specific benefit/activity.

The only genuine differences you are pointing out are comical, like that you can swap covenants. Well, no shit. So what? That's what you think makes this a fundamentally different system? Get real. This is a remix of the same systems from legion. Even the legendaries are back.

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Yet you get unique faction that offers some skill in exchange for aligning yourself with them, you can chose different faction if you like. It gives you unique story that anyone can experience, couple of npcs that you can bond with which offer non-linear passive skill tree with sockets that don't get destroyed once changed.

Did i just describe order halls?

You just described a clearly similar system to order halls. This is madness.

[Accendor]

Mmm weak legendaries like most always were since the start of the game.

Did we play the same game?

[dojichan]

That's a whole lot of words to say "TWO CLASSES DIDNT HAVE THREE ADVANCEMENT TREES! GOTCHYA!"

I like how you address only one of the two things. So if I assume you are right...then maybe you are describing legion. In either case you are not describing shadowlands without being vague

You are being ridiculous to just avoid admitting you were wrong, and you aren't even right on the facts. Every covenant hub, just like class hub, has its own advancement tree for advancing the hub. It's almost exactly the same.

This is the first time I have talked to you...why would I start a conversation with "Everything I have not yet said was wrong"??
It is possible that I do have some facts wrong. It is my understanding that you will get three things that advance per covenant:
Renown-(A new type of leveling system)(More similar to AP then to a tree)
Upgrades-(A new type of building system)(More similar to buildings in Wod then to a tree)
Soulbinds-(A new type of talent system)(This is similar to artifact power)

You get a hub. It comes with its own endgame quest chain. The customize the hub with a tree. You get access to some talent-like system that has fixed values and some slotted values. You get some kind of cool hub-specific benefit/activity.

Once you are this vague... You are describing every RPG with some choice and advancement systems.

The only genuine differences you are pointing out are comical, like that you can swap covenants. Well, no shit. So what? That's what you think makes this a fundamentally different system? Get real. This is a remix of the same systems from legion. Even the legendaries are back.

Fundamentally every system is basically the same in wow...they are just better (attempts) at the same system. This has always been true. That doesn't mean that the experience will be exact.
Talents, Artifacts, Soul-binds, Essences, Buildings,Corruption(with vendor)---Fundamentally these are all things which you earn and progress which change the power your character has
Azerite powers, Tier bonus, Enchantments, artifacts, Corruption---Fundamentally these are all things which you can equip/move which change power your character has
Fundamentally these are all borrowed power...
But if you look at any of these systems...they play very differently

Role Playing-I hated the monk class hall quests. They were bland and boring. They had no greater lore implications. Compare this to DK/Pali/Priest which all implied future expansions or lore. I would have been very happy to play the story I wanted and align with the people I wanted.

Gameplay: You have 4 covenents with 3 soulbinds. That is 12 options to play. Sure maybe one soul bind is like having 1 artifact...but this is giving me 3-6 times as many ways to play the game. I wont have to grind out each soulbind in the same covenent. Once I finish renown...I can swap freely. With artifacts it was a bitch to keep 2-4 of them on par with each other. I get 4 covenents each with a different mini game. If I get bored of it, I can swap.

TLDNR(Since you dont respond to everything that is said anyways)- You have to be very vague for them to look identical. For you they may be close enough that you are complaining, but the unique playstyle/lore/looks/feel are interesting and very different from legion.

[NineSpine]

I like how you address only one of the two things. So if I assume you are right...then maybe you are describing legion. In either case you are not describing shadowlands without being vague


This is the first time I have talked to you...why would I start a conversation with "Everything I have not yet said was wrong"??
It is possible that I do have some facts wrong. It is my understanding that you will get three things that advance per covenant:
Renown-(A new type of leveling system)(More similar to AP then to a tree)
Upgrades-(A new type of building system)(More similar to buildings in Wod then to a tree)
Soulbinds-(A new type of talent system)(This is similar to artifact power)


Once you are this vague... You are describing every RPG with some choice and advancement systems.


Fundamentally every system is basically the same in wow...they are just better (attempts) at the same system. This has always been true. That doesn't mean that the experience will be exact.
Talents, Artifacts, Soul-binds, Essences, Buildings,Corruption(with vendor)---Fundamentally these are all things which you earn and progress which change the power your character has
Azerite powers, Tier bonus, Enchantments, artifacts, Corruption---Fundamentally these are all things which you can equip/move which change power your character has
Fundamentally these are all borrowed power...
But if you look at any of these systems...they play very differently

Role Playing-I hated the monk class hall quests. They were bland and boring. They had no greater lore implications. Compare this to DK/Pali/Priest which all implied future expansions or lore. I would have been very happy to play the story I wanted and align with the people I wanted.

Gameplay: You have 4 covenents with 3 soulbinds. That is 12 options to play. Sure maybe one soul bind is like having 1 artifact...but this is giving me 3-6 times as many ways to play the game. I wont have to grind out each soulbind in the same covenent. Once I finish renown...I can swap freely. With artifacts it was a bitch to keep 2-4 of them on par with each other. I get 4 covenents each with a different mini game. If I get bored of it, I can swap.

TLDNR(Since you dont respond to everything that is said anyways)- You have to be very vague for them to look identical. For you they may be close enough that you are complaining, but the unique playstyle/lore/looks/feel are interesting and very different from legion.

But... I'm not complaining. I liked the way legion worked. I like that this system is extremely similar. It's pretty clear now that the reason you are being so weird is that you didn't read what I said and assumed I was complaining.

What I took issue with was calling shadowlands "systemlands" when its no more system-y than legion and is in fact very similar to legion.

[kaminaris]

But... I'm not complaining. I liked the way legion worked. I like that this system is extremely similar. It's pretty clear now that the reason you are being so weird is that you didn't read what I said and assumed I was complaining.

What I took issue with was calling shadowlands "systemlands" when its no more system-y than legion and is in fact very similar to legion.

They are not similar systems tho. Read this guy posts again. Legion sucked with all of their system and I am glad they are NOT like legion.

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You just described a clearly similar system to order halls. This is madness.

You can't be serious? Honestly? I described everything that cannot be done in legion. Literally nothing there was "similar" to legion.

[Sithalos]

If you think that 90% of the legendaries are "trash" you either didn't bother looking at them, or you don't understand how power in WoW works.

[NineSpine]

They are not similar systems tho. Read this guy posts again. Legion sucked with all of their system and I am glad they are NOT like legion.

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You can't be serious? Honestly? I described everything that cannot be done in legion. Literally nothing there was "similar" to legion.

Endgame social hub? Check.
System to advance and customize the hub? Check.
A special bonus/activity for your hub? Check.
Unique endgame questline? Check.
Borrowed power advancement system with fixed and slottable components? Check.

It's the same system remixed. It's clear as day. The only difference is that instead of being class-based you choose one of four options.

[kaminaris]

Endgame social hub? Check.
System to advance and customize the hub? Check.
A special bonus/activity for your hub? Check.
Unique endgame questline? Check.
Borrowed power advancement system with fixed and slottable components? Check.

It's the same system remixed. It's clear as day. The only difference is that instead of being class-based you choose one of four options.

Not being able to change? check
Not a faction? check
Cannot experience other stories as one character? Check
Not giving a skill? check
Not having actual tree that empowers you? Check


Your level of similarity is like car vs motorboat:

Having engine? Both check
Having steering wheel? Check
Having seats? Check
Having windshield? Check

Therefore Car = Motorboat, just a little remixed. Clear as day. Thats it boys. Motorboat is just a remixed car.

[Boo Radley]

These forums are an exercise in mental gymnastics and logical fallacies. The legendaries are flat out disappointing from just about all perspectives. They dont add enough to make them stand out and they dont add so little as to not be important. They're another "Borrowed power, quickly filling in gaps we left in the specs" stopgap from the mechanics development "team?"(Im not sure one actually exists tbh)
Most play testers and people who are actually keeping up have noticed that these legendaries arent really adding anything new or exciting- passives, rehashed weakened versions of azerite traits (since you cant stack 3 of them) which themselves were rehashed weakened versions of many legion artifact traits and very few with meaningful changes to how your spec does its rotation or interactivity with the abilities. In legion having 3-4 of these would meaningfully change your gameplay, as they each interacted. One individually usually doesnt do it. Thus the disappointment. This has been repeated again and again by people on the beta and you can look at them yourself on wowhead. But, when you try to have a reasonable discussion about it here, things go wrong fast:

"But what about this one, that makes up for the other 150"
"Guess you better stop playing the game then, because asking for part of it to be better means you hate it and wont play"
"All you do is complain. Why are you passionate about something you've dedicated over a decade of your life to"
"Correlation does not equal causation. Unless its the example I want to point out"
"You dont like something about the game that I dont really care about? Clearly youre wrong and its great even though I dont know much about it"

Really, top tier stuff guys. I'm surprised most of you manage to find time to be here between your vigilant climate change denial and flat earth defending duties.

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Not being able to change? check
Not a faction? check
Cannot experience other stories as one character? Check
Not giving a skill? check
Not having actual tree that empowers you? Check


Your level of similarity is like car vs motorboat:

Having engine? Both check
Having steering wheel? Check
Having seats? Check
Having windshield? Check

Therefore Car = Motorboat, just a little remixed. Clear as day. Thats it boys. Motorboat is just a remixed car.

I didnt even get to read this one before I made my post. Taking reductive logic and countering it with logic so reductive you make the first guy look brilliant? It is the pure essence of the forums distilled into one post.

[LordVargK]

They could be making it where you upgrade legendaries in the future to make them even more powerful.

You will probably only upgrade their item level but not their effect. But they might get patched. Or you may be able to equip more than one, like in Legion.