Are you against LIFE in prison penalty?

[Zuben]

I feel the punishments they dole out in US are often overblown, but on the other hand it's far too lenient here in Finland. Incarceration ought to be balanced, so that it would earnestly attempt to rehabilitate criminals, but also act as a deterrent against crime (and cater to peoples' yearning for justice). Life sentence doesn't really serve that purpose, but there is a fourth need in incarceration: Keeping the bad material away from preying on innocents. Some people are just monsters. If they do a bad enough crime and show no remorse nor discernible possibility for rehabilitation, they are best kept away from society.

[Egomaniac]

Fun fact: Each person on death row costs the US penal system more than they would if they were just put in prison for life.
https://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/
https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/de...-penalty-cost/

Just going to point out that this argument is brought up every single time....and it always falls upon deaf ears. The responses you are going to get are:

1) that's because the appeals process is too long
2) we should execute them immediately after sentencing
3) Prisoners on death row are treated too well

These people don't care about things like factual data and the possibility of wrongfully executing an innocent person. All they care about is that they get their pound of flesh.

[Temp name]

Just going to point out that this argument is brought up every single time....and it always falls upon deaf ears. The responses you are going to get are:

1) that's because the appeals process is too long
2) we should execute them immediately after sentencing
3) Prisoners on death row are treated too well

These people don't care about things like factual data and the possibility of wrongfully executing an innocent person. All they care about is that they get their pound of flesh.

Oh, I know..
But if 1 or 2 are brought up I can have more fun by also bringing up the wrongful conviction rate, which is around 4% last I checked: https://time.com/79572/more-innocent...timated-study/ so maybe the appeal should be longer

[callipygoustp]

--snip--

What does the image in the OP have to do with the thread discussion?

[Dezerte]

In prison until deemed safe for release (which in some cases would be never). I'm mostly interested in reducing crime while maximizing human potential - a more utilitarian view. The difficulty lies in determining whether someone is safe/rehabilitated for release, but I think we should still strive towards that.

[ParanoiD84]

Nope some/alot of people needs to be permanently removed from society.

I also support death penalty for the worst pieces of trash human beings

Examples like Luis Garavito, Pedro López and Javed Iqbal just the top 3 worst serial killers who all raped, tortured and killed over one hundred children each. The list is very long and i would add a ton more to that list. I see absolutely zero point in keeping people like that alive.

[Doctor Amadeus]

What does the image in the OP have to do with the thread discussion?

When I do threads, I will often do so with a supporting image that ill google to give it setting. Oddly enough when I typed in "Life in Prison without parole" THAT is actually the first image that came up.

So I figured why not use it. LOL

[Ghostpanther]

I can understand what you are saying and I have no quarrel with that, but what I am asking is can you go deeper, and ask a tougher questions.


How can any life truly be without redemption, granted it might be beyond all of us as a society, but if that is true then Prison's really can't be for redemption can they?

They can be. But not always in this world or should they be. Scums who have did things which deserve a life sentence, exists.

So yes, I support life sentences for some crimes. And the death penalty for some.

This scene from Man on Fire comes to mind...

[diddle]

Sentencing after a conviction can achieve, broadly speaking, three goals.
Rehabilitation, safety of the public, and/or sadism by the populace under the false mask of "justice".

In cases where a prisoner can be rehabilitated into a productive, decent member of society, that should be the foremost goal of any sentence issued.
Safety of the public may emerge in cases of the truly egregious, like serial killers, who cannot or will not be rehabilitated. In these cases, a life sentence can be justified, because releasing the prisoner will only provide them an opportunity to attack new victims.

And then there's sadism. Pretty much every other argument people apply to this question boils down to sadism. They want to see that prisoner suffer. Not because it rehabilitates; if that was their goal, they wouldn't need sadism to achieve it, and we already covered that. It's just a desire to see that human being suffer. It really isn't any deeper than that, despite the many excuses they'll give you as to why they think that person should suffer; it still boils down to a desire to inflict suffering, for suffering's sake. Because that person deserves it.

That's sadism. That's exactly what "sadism" means.

I can't support sadism, but in cases of public safety, there I can see a case for life imprisonment. And if the goal isn't rehabilitation or public safety, ask yourself why you're pushing a viewpoint rooted in sadism, where does your desire to inflict pain and hardship come from? Because it isn't about justice. Vengeance is not justice.

I won't argue that it could be boiled down to sadism, but what about the deterrence that comes with punishment? "If you commit this crime, this is how you could suffer". I have to say I think I'd be more willing to break the law if I knew I was going to be handled as a victim of my own criminally disabled mind through actual rehabilitation or what have you.

[Egomaniac]

Oh, I know..
But if 1 or 2 are brought up I can have more fun by also bringing up the wrongful conviction rate, which is around 4% last I checked: https://time.com/79572/more-innocent...timated-study/ so maybe the appeal should be longer

But then there's the final point about them not caring about factual data. Many of them will even say that 4% isn't even that big of a deal.

[Specialka]

But then there's the final point about them not caring about factual data. Many of them will even say that 4% isn't even that big of a deal.

Not a big deal until you are the one wrongfully convicted.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I won't argue that it could be boiled down to sadism, but what about the deterrence that comes with punishment? "If you commit this crime, this is how you could suffer". I have to say I think I'd be more willing to break the law if I knew I was going to be handled as a victim of my own criminally disabled mind through actual rehabilitation or what have you.

Hasher sentencing to deter crime doesn’t work it just leads to people being more extreme when they commit crime to try harder not to get caught.

[Egomaniac]

I won't argue that it could be boiled down to sadism, but what about the deterrence that comes with punishment? "If you commit this crime, this is how you could suffer". I have to say I think I'd be more willing to break the law if I knew I was going to be handled as a victim of my own criminally disabled mind through actual rehabilitation or what have you.

Leave this here for you:

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/bu...ts-deter-crime

Professor Brown says harsher punishments that both aim for general deterrence – that is to deter the population at large – and specific deterrence to deter the individual, from re-offending in future is unfounded.

“The severity of punishment, known as marginal deterrence, has no real deterrent effect, or the effect of reducing recidivism,” he says. “The only minor deterrent effect is the likelihood of apprehension. So if people think they’re more likely to be caught, that will certainly operate to some extent as a deterrent.”

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Not a big deal until you are the one wrongfully convicted.

Sure, but the people that say these things are the people that think things like that will never happen to them..

[Specialka]

Leave this here for you:

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/bu...ts-deter-crime



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Sure, but the people that say these things are the people that think things like that will never happen to them..

Oh, I do agree with you.

About the thread, I am against the death penalty and life long sentence because I believe in redemption. But sure, some individual like Breivik needs far more work than others and it is easier (not cheaper) to lock them up for life.

[Egomaniac]

Oh I do agree with you. I am against the death penalty and life long sentence because I believe in redemption. But sure, some individual like Breivik needs far more work than others and it is easier (not cheaper) to lock them up for life.

I don't think your really getting my point. I'm not arguing for or against anything. I was just presenting the arguments that one faces when talking about "Death Penalty is more costly than life in prison".

[Specialka]

I don't think your really getting my point. I'm not arguing for or against anything. I was just presenting the arguments that one faces when talking about "Death Penalty is more costly than life in prison".

Oh I do get it. I meant I do agree with your argument and then I was presenting my opinion about the thread. Edited the post to avoid further comprehension mistake.

[Egomaniac]

People who say others aren't deterred by harsh penalties have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm sure you can present the data that contradicts theirs...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

People who say others aren't deterred by harsh penalties have no idea what they're talking about.

and you have what to back this up?

[Calfredd]

People who say others aren't deterred by harsh penalties have no idea what they're talking about.

It has been proven so actually people who say others are deterred by harsh penalties are the ones who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Egomaniac]

My own experience.

Yeah...that's some solid evidence you are presenting...

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Nope.

I would have killed a few people if not for the penalties. I don't feel like rotting away in prison.

So much edge...