Are you against LIFE in prison penalty?

[Egomaniac]

I feel like typing out some lengthy explanation about criminal opportunity intent and gain would be wasted here so let’s just go with ya I would totally touch you.

I dunno...his psychotic ravings are really starting to convince me about the validity of his argument :P

[Doctor Amadeus]

They can be. But not always in this world or should they be. Scums who have did things which deserve a life sentence, exists.

So yes, I support life sentences for some crimes. And the death penalty for some.

This scene from Man on Fire comes to mind...

[video=youtube;wD_zMv690w/video]

Again, I am not not in disagreement, rehabilitation everything I am talking about is a luxury and does take resources that frankly we might not now or ever arrive at. Don't get me wrong I am not talking about playing God, or being on some kind of power trip to know all of what is better for all.

I DO BELIEVE IN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.

But what is behind that choice, salvation is a thing, and yes I know being sorry doesn't mean you don't have to pay for what you have done, at least on some level, but there is also mercy, forgiveness, LOVE! Especially those that need it the most.

[Egomaniac]

The word used is "redemption." And that always comes from within.

no...the word is rehabilitation.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, you wouldn't. You'd be too scared.

(Insert innuendo here), I totally would.

[Specialka]

no...the word is rehabilitation.

And rehabilitation can lead to redemption, as you can see the error in your previous way.

[Shadowferal]

Again you get no argument from me on this point of view, you bring up all valid example.

But what if they could rehabilitated truly.

Again with the "what if." That goes into an infinitude of potential that goes nowhere because you refuse to draw the line at "what is," which is where most of us live.

[Citizen T]

Sentencing after a conviction can achieve, broadly speaking, three goals.
Rehabilitation, safety of the public, and/or sadism by the populace under the false mask of "justice".

In cases where a prisoner can be rehabilitated into a productive, decent member of society, that should be the foremost goal of any sentence issued.
Safety of the public may emerge in cases of the truly egregious, like serial killers, who cannot or will not be rehabilitated. In these cases, a life sentence can be justified, because releasing the prisoner will only provide them an opportunity to attack new victims.

And then there's sadism. Pretty much every other argument people apply to this question boils down to sadism. They want to see that prisoner suffer. Not because it rehabilitates; if that was their goal, they wouldn't need sadism to achieve it, and we already covered that. It's just a desire to see that human being suffer. It really isn't any deeper than that, despite the many excuses they'll give you as to why they think that person should suffer; it still boils down to a desire to inflict suffering, for suffering's sake. Because that person deserves it.

That's sadism. That's exactly what "sadism" means.

I can't support sadism, but in cases of public safety, there I can see a case for life imprisonment. And if the goal isn't rehabilitation or public safety, ask yourself why you're pushing a viewpoint rooted in sadism, where does your desire to inflict pain and hardship come from? Because it isn't about justice. Vengeance is not justice.

By this logic, putting a child in timeout for bad behavior is sadism.

Incarceration also teaches consequences for actions. This is not sadism.

[Shadowferal]

no...the word is rehabilitation.

I wss responding from this;

How can any life truly be without redemption, granted it might be beyond all of us as a society, but if that is true then Prison's really can't be for redemption can they?

[Egomaniac]

And rehabilitation can lead to redemption, as you can see the error in your previous way.

Sure...but rehabilitation is what the justice system is supposed to be providing.

[Fencers]

I am not strictly against prisons though I am opposed to all privatized prisons. That said, I do think very long incarceration is at times necessary. There are instances where individuals would be of great continual harm to others and society and realistic rehabilitation or correction of behavior would be extremely slim or impossible.

I think we, the US, imprison far too many, often and way too long relative to most crimes. Robust social services and elimination of scarcity is the way.

Someone should not spend 25 years in prison for possession of 5-9.9 grams of an illegal class stimulant on a Class B felony when I could steal a million dollars and get the same sentence more or less.

The root cause of these two crimes may be the same, but the degree of punishment and whom that majorly affects is not at all justice. Justice ought to seek equity.

[Specialka]

Sure...but rehabilitation is what the justice system is supposed to be providing.

Most ppl only see the vengeance part of it (which should not even be the point of it anyway but humans are humans).

[Doctor Amadeus]

Again with the "what if." That goes into an infinitude of potential that goes nowhere because you refuse to draw the line at "what is," which is where most of us live.

We didn't always, and without the what if's we might not be where we are today. Architects needs maps and blue prints to guide creations. Scientist need laboratories where they can test theories and retest theories over and over.

Life is sometimes checkers, sometimes chess, being able to see ahead while not too far ahead if important.


As I said I am not particular for or against death or life in prison on their own provided the sentence and evidence is clear.


However the more I have thought along the lines of this thread, the more I realize that the question about Life in Prison and The Death Penalty really are more related, than they seem.

In some ways we have allowed our humanity to get away from us

[Endus]

By this logic, putting a child in timeout for bad behavior is sadism.

Incarceration also teaches consequences for actions. This is not sadism.

Do you seriously not understand what "rehabilitation" means?

You don't put a child in a timeout to make them suffer. You do so to help them become a better person. That's "rehabilitation". Well, more "habilitation" in the case of a toddler.

If that's not the goal, then yes; you're just sadistically abusing a toddler.

[Egomaniac]

By this logic, putting a child in timeout for bad behavior is sadism.

If you leave the child in timeout for the rest of his life...that would be sadism...

- - - Updated - - -

only as a secondary to removing people from society to stop them from hurting others...

Actually, rehabilitation should be the primary goal...so that when those people are released...they are no longer threats to society.

[Calfredd]

By this logic, putting a child in timeout for bad behavior is sadism.

Incarceration also teaches consequences for actions. This is not sadism.

Endus lists 3 different reasons to incarcerate someone and you not only failed to understand what he said, but ironically agreed with him in your second sentence.

[Egomaniac]

not everyone can be rehabilitated...

Only a very small amount of people are incapable of being rehabilitated.

[Egomaniac]

lol... no... there is a lot of people who can't be rehabilitated...

My bad. Terms like "very small amount" and "a lot" are very context sensitive. For example 100 out 150 is "a lot" but 100 out of 15000 is a very small amount.

Allow me to rephrase. Only a small fraction of the population are unable to be rehabilitated. Most people can be rehabilitated...if the system allows for such a thing to happen.

[Shadowferal]

I still wonder why the likes of Peter Scully and Liezyl Margallo are even alive. Any argument for their release at any time has to be based on a naivete bordering on idiocy.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I am not strictly against prisons though I am opposed to all privatized prisons. That said, I do think very long incarceration is at times necessary. There are instances where individuals would be of great continual harm to others and society and realistic rehabilitation or correction of behavior would be extremely slim or impossible.

I think we, the US, imprison far too many, often and way too long relative to most crimes. Robust social services and elimination of scarcity is the way.

Someone should not spend 25 years in prison for possession of 5-9.9 grams of an illegal class stimulant on a Class B felony when I could steal a million dollars and get the same sentence more or less.

The root cause of these two crimes may be the same, but the degree of punishment and whom that majorly affects is not at all justice. Justice ought to seek equity.

Yeah I think I follow a lot of what you are saying here, I think a lot of other factors in a changing world have a lot to do with crime and punishment we see today. Whether it's a failure of social system and other barriers, access to mental health facilities.


Don't know if you Netflix but here is what got me thinking about this.



Basics are he was on death row, got off, then got parole. Which in and of itself is pretty amazing but it's really not case of new evidence set him free. It was a technicality. Anyways the point is he was released and I couldn't help thinking half way through they made a huge fucking mistake letting this guy out.


Of course after I started thinking about the justice system and the death penalty and I got sick of the same old questions so it inspired me to ask some better ones. Because at the end of the film I was less thinking about the death penalty and more thinking about Life in Prison and whether the decision to release the guy in this film was just.

And for me I had a problem with it so I had to explore why I did. Thus the question Am I again Life In Prison without the possibility of parole?


How is Life with no Parole any Better than the Death Penalty?

Keep in mind I even though about what if the Death Penalty could be applied to more than capital murder since a person can get life with no parole for things other than Death.

If you get a chance check it out I'd be curious about your input.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

do you think a person like this can be rehabilitated?

What % of people do you think are like them? Do you not know what a faction means?