[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

Take a look at the future timeline Graha came from. An entire population of people who lost everything, including the WoL and the Scions. The entire place was completely destroyed and ruined. What did they do? They chose selflessness, to, for not a single benefit to themselves, devote some of their ENTIRE lives for the CHANCE that they could save the WoL in the past. No benefit to their future, no time spent that could have otherwise been used to help themselves, no. They chose selflessness, not some primal god to save themselves. Not some wish to kill all their enemies so they could bring back all of their friends or something.

You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
a) have the same idea.
b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.

[dope_danny]

Considering that he was locked in the tower for most events, I'd say his knowledge of actual events will be rather limited.

I have to imagine during that mad dash we see a glimpse of any and all beast tribes are going "y'know what? fuck it" and summoning everything. It is the end of the world after all right? odds are that timelines ascians spent those years getting more summonings going and especially after the scions are all gone.

[Kaelwryn]

You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
a) have the same idea.
b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.

Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist. In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.

[Katchii]

Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist. In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.

According to the short story, they EXPECTED to disappear or something afterward, ie kill those people. They didn't expect for things to just continue on afterward.

[Merie]

I think Venat should have been Azem. How ironic would it have been if we were a primal just like Elidibus and were destined to combat the other over our opposing belief?

You are aware that, by altering the timeline, they were essentially killing all entities that have been born past the incursion point?
They did this so they wouldn't lose anyone, they stood to gain a lot if it works.

This isn't "selflessness" at all. In fact, going back and "fixing" the future because it turned out in a way you dislike is on of the oldest topics of Sci-Fi and generally considered unethical.

The real kicker of the entire shabang is: with their knowledge, sophistication and sheer limitless power, why didn't the Ascians
a) have the same idea.
b) see what was going on under their noses and put a stop to it.

I have long wondered why Graha tia didn't destroy his own existence and create a paradox by changing the timeline that gave way to becoming his present self. My only conclusion is that we're not dealing with one timeline here but a multiverse, like in the Avengers. If so, that dark timeline is still continuing. And I wonder if the Ascians from it end up co-opting the same strategy to summon Zodiark in their "dark" timeline. If so, that could set the stage for us having Zodiark as a final boss, even though we stopped the rejoinings in our own world. That the ascians would co-opt our own tactics isn't even an alien concept any more now that Elidibus did as much himself.

[Kaelwryn]

According to the short story, they EXPECTED to disappear or something afterward, ie kill those people. They didn't expect for things to just continue on afterward.

Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.

[Hyral]

Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.

I'm not sure you can make that decision for them though. It's like others making the decision for us that being born into a fragmented existence is too much of a horror.

Also just because they didn't actually kill anyone doesn't erase the moral implications of their actions. If you opened fire into a crowded room and everyone manages to avoid your shots doesn't mean you are now blameless. They may not have intended it with malice but neither do the Ascians when they rejoin worlds.

[Granyala]

Except, if you read the short story, they didn't kill those people. The doomed timeline continued to exist.

In our time line, those people are possibly never born so you can't exactly say they were killed when they...potentially don't exist in our timeline.

Yeah, easy cop-out by SE to circumvent any ethical issues.

In Star Trek, the "they never existed" is seen the same as if we killed them.
There is a nice episode "Children of Time" from Deep Space Nine tackling such a scenario.

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My only conclusion is that we're not dealing with one timeline here but a multiverse, like in the Avengers. If so, that dark timeline is still continuing. And I wonder if the Ascians from it end up co-opting the same strategy to summon Zodiark in their "dark" timeline. If so, that could set the stage for us having Zodiark as a final boss, even though we stopped the rejoinings in our own world. That the ascians would co-opt our own tactics isn't even an alien concept any more now that Elidibus did as much himself.

If we don't, then it's just a matter of time until the Ascians bridge the dimensional gap (it's what they do anyway) and start interfering in or timeline again, yup. maybe a backdoor for SE to still keep Zodiark around.

[Thestrawman]

Yeah, easy cop-out by SE to circumvent any ethical issues.

In Star Trek, the "they never existed" is seen the same as if we killed them.
There is a nice episode "Children of Time" from Deep Space Nine tackling such a scenario.

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If we don't, then it's just a matter of time until the Ascians bridge the dimensional gap (it's what they do anyway) and start interfering in or timeline again, yup. maybe a backdoor for SE to still keep Zodiark around.

But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.

5.3 MSQ

Spoiler: 

Emet and Elidibus were morons. Once they found about the Exarch, they had victory in their hands. They should've teleported away and gotten to work on their own time machines. Garlemald is already in a ripe position to build the next one; all they had to do would have been to return to the Source, take over as leader, stabilize the empire, make peace with the other nations, and then used the resources of and infrastructure and research to build a time machine. If the Scions and the Eorzean Alliance caught on and tried sabotaging it, Emet and Elidibus could always build up another civilization on another shard to do it, and they would never need to worry about the Scions or the WoL coming to stop them. At that point it's pretty much just "take a nap until it's finished". They could go back to before the Sundering if they wanted and stop it from happening. Only problem is they still don't have a fix for the Sound yet.

But, instead, they just hung around and fought the WoL and the Scions, and thus got killed, wasting their perfect opportunities to set everything straight.

[Katchii]

Yes, this is true but ultimately they didn't kill anyone by sending g'raha back in time. Truthfully from what we know from ShB story and short stories, being born in that doomed time line is...I think most people would rather not have gone thru that horror.

Point being they thought they would. It's a happy coincidence that they didn't, but they plotted and moved forward with their plan fully intending to eradicate their entire timeline, history and people born after the event they were trying to stop.

[Merie]

But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.

How is it they didn't have time travel considering Emet had a hand in making the Allagan empire? I would think even their technology would pale in comparison to that of the ancients.

Frankly I think that if the Emet Selch didn't have the means to bend time to save his past than the fact that the sundered succeeded should have been all the proof he needed that their capabilities were sufficient to be their true successors.

[Granyala]

But the Ascians have no knowledge of time travel.

The old ones, maybe.
Emet and Elidibus should know about it the moment we encounter Omega and Alexander.

I'm not sure the Allagan Empire had the technology for it, as far as I know, that came from Alex/Omega, of whom the latter is basically an alien.

[Merie]

Do we have an idea which one is Azem?

[KrayZ33]

The second one from the right

[Merie]

The second one from the right

How do we know?

[RohanV]

How do we know?

Azem's features are quite distinct, and the second one from the right matches perfectly.

[Ashleyxoxo]

I'm still new (rushed to the end) and need minimum ilvl 460 to complete the latest story dungeon. What's the quickest way to get it?

[Thestrawman]

I'm still new (rushed to the end) and need minimum ilvl 460 to complete the latest story dungeon. What's the quickest way to get it?

Fastest would be buying gear off the market board. Neo ishgardian set at 480 Ilvl. Start with weapon then go from their.

Also do your daily roulettes on your lvl 80 class to get tomestones of phantasmagoria and Allegory. Phantasmagoria is not capped and will net you 460 Ilvl gear. Allegory is capped at 450 a week but will net you 490 gear.

You should also work towards unlocking both Eden 8 man raids and the first Nier 24 man.

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The old ones, maybe.
Emet and Elidibus should know about it the moment we encounter Omega and Alexander.

I'm not sure the Allagan Empire had the technology for it, as far as I know, that came from Alex/Omega, of whom the latter is basically an alien.

Allagan tech is based off of Omega, so they knew about it, but since Ascians can already travel the rift there was no need to explore that option.

How much the Ascians know about Alexander on the other hand is hard to know. Or it could be the sheer amount of aether required to do it is impossible even for them.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Edit: nvm I got it.