The Toxic Syndrome

[Mirishka]

Anonymity and Ego.

No one without an ego posts online, and everyone who posts online has anonymity afforded to them. Not that it's a bad thing - I think humanity should have a place where you can be as ugly and reprehensible as you like without fear of reprisal. Not giving people that always ends badly

So basically the internet? Because the amount of punishment relative to the amount of horrid fucking shit that is said and done via the internet is laughably disproportionate.

[arr0gance]

Do we really need yet another discussion topic about why people are dickwads on the internet? Calling it "syndrome" or whatever the fuck doesn't elevate you to a new standard. Documenting "trends" in player behavior does little to curb it. If you want to actually make a difference then be the change you want to see happen. Otherwise, we're all massive hypocrites bitching about the very behavior we frequently display ourselves.

[Mirishka]

As for why they're being like that, it's because there are no repercussions due to blizzard's decisions. You don't have server communities anymore, so people don't care about how they behave.

I see this kind of thing a lot but the reality is, plenty of people in WoW were happy to act like complete dicks long before server communities went away. Some of the most awful/vile/horrible shit that I've seen people say in 15 years of WoW happening during vanilla. It is not a phenomenon that started when they added LFD and cross-realms, not even close.

With that said I agree with the rest of your post. In particular:

I don't know who said it but the true measure of a man is what he does when he is sure nobody is watching. Anonymity provides exactly that. You see people for who they really are online, because nobody is watching them.

[Marrilaife]

In some respects it's about establishing dominance. That happens somewhat more frequently in situations that are competitive.

It's one of my criticisms of Blizzard and they way they've handled WoW generally that they have emphasized the competitive aspects of the game over the co-operative. That goes all the way back to allowing DPS meters, which can be very useful for informing a player about how they're doing and where they might improve, but generally they're used as a measuring stick so someone can boast they top meters or whatever. If Blizzard wanted to I imagine they could find a way to keep damage logs private to the user and force add-on creators to follow suit.

I'd say it's more about lack of personal responsibility. Since the game is designed around group play everything is a success or failure of a group, not an individual. This fosters toxicity like: blame shifting, scapegoating, leeching, scamming your way into groups (things like fake achievements, ilvl padding, lying), guild hopping, etc. If the success is less correlated to person's effort and skill and more to whether they "gamed the social system", people will always try to do this.

League of legends is extremely toxic for the same reason - your win or loss is not tied to your own performance. It's easy to blame other people for a loss, it's easy to troll them and make your team lose despite their efforts, and there's very little punishment for either.

[Bbrigham]

"Toxic" is a word selfish minority like to use in WoW when other people refuse to play and act like those selfish people want them too.

It is a insidious way to try to guilt-shame people to behave in a certain way.

What. If trying to get people to behave kindly and not at all like raging toddlers is, insidious, welll

[Mirishka]

If you want to actually make a difference then be the change you want to see happen. Otherwise, we're all massive hypocrites bitching about the very behavior we frequently display ourselves.

Well said. Very well said, in fact.

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"Toxic" is a word selfish minority like to use in WoW when other people refuse to play and act like those selfish people want them too.

It is a insidious way to try to guilt-shame people to behave in a certain way.

The nonsense-to-words ratio in this post is impressive.

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What. If trying to get people to behave kindly and not at all like raging toddlers is, insidious, welll

Right?

/10char

[TEHPALLYTANK]

League of legends is extremely toxic for the same reason - your win or loss is not tied to your own performance. It's easy to blame other people for a loss, it's easy to troll them and make your team lose despite their efforts, and there's very little punishment for either.

The surrender option is another major factor I'd include as to just why the LoL community behaves so poorly. People are then motivated to discourage other players into quitting, because they can bully them into surrendering. That is a game system incentivizing bad behavior.

I avoid all PvP games that have surrender options, because I've never seen it have anything other than a negative impact on player behavior.

[Ragnarohk]

trump 2020 btw get mad about it

Lol. That expains stuff

Covfefe

[Bbrigham]

Sorry if that offends you, but spend a day on Twitter looking through the thousands upon thousands of 'OMG U FUCKING RETARDS RUINED MY CLASS/FAVORITE GUN/ETC, FUCK U HOPE U DIE' type messages that are sent to game developers day in and day out, and let me know how many of those come from women. I did a paper on all the harassment and death threats sent to some of Bioware's writers, messages that numbered in the hundreds and literally every single one of them came from a man or someone presenting as a man. And the vast majority of those messages were directed at female employees.

Meat objectively kills more people than vegetables, and saying that doesn't mean I'm 'meatist' - it means that I refuse to alter a factual statistic to spare the feelings of meat lovers.

Its actually true. Men, boys, male toddlers and old men- we can be gnarly assbutts, to quote Castiel. It starts in the home with male examples being examples of males, and leads to outright chauvinistic Chadding everywhere. This isn't to say women are perfect, we are all human- but im male, so I'm an expert on male behavior

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Do we really need yet another discussion topic about why people are dickwads on the internet? Calling it "syndrome" or whatever the fuck doesn't elevate you to a new standard. Documenting "trends" in player behavior does little to curb it. If you want to actually make a difference then be the change you want to see happen. Otherwise, we're all massive hypocrites bitching about the very behavior we frequently display ourselves.

I don't display such behavior. I try to be as kind as possible. I try to help newbies. I try to shut down sexist assbutts. So no, not really.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Its actually true. Men, boys, male toddlers and old men- we can be gnarly assbutts, to quote Castiel. It starts in the home with male examples being examples of males, and leads to outright chauvinistic Chadding everywhere. This isn't to say women are perfect, we are all human- but im male, so I'm an expert on male behavior

That is just silly. You're not an expert on male behavior simply because you're male, you're a unique individual that isn't representative of everyone else who is also male.

[BBLGM]

Don't forget, you don't have to play with anybody, just leave. And if it was the shitty little debuff keeping you there, note that the system is obviously sadistic

[Mirishka]

Its actually true. Men, boys, male toddlers and old men- we can be gnarly assbutts, to quote Castiel. It starts in the home with male examples being examples of males, and leads to outright chauvinistic Chadding everywhere. This isn't to say women are perfect, we are all human- but im male, so I'm an expert on male behavior

Oh absolutely! Some of the biggest assholes I've known in my life were other women, and some of the most amazing and kind people were men. It definitely isn't a sexism thing... I love nice people and I hate pricks. Don't care what gender they are, in either case.

[Aggressive]

what i said also applies to you lmao

his original post has absolutely no substance

it is "this is a thing"

no example, nothing

it's the same type of argument used by leftists

trump 2020 btw get mad about it

OMG. I knew someone would bring up something in relation to politics and just ruin this whole thread to hell. The conversation was constructive and good while it lasted.

[rtvh]

Because the internet is an anarchy state. There is no central authority, there is no law, no police.

Remove those from real life and you will get the same results.

I'm sorry but this is 100% not true. You know what humanity did when we didn't have those things? We created them.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Anonymity. You can be an ass with no repercussions.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Anonymity. You can be an ass with no repercussions.

And you are the living ‘case and point’ for this matter.

[Ashleyxoxo]

And you are the living ‘case and point’ for this matter.

Um, how so?

[arr0gance]

I don't display such behavior. I try to be as kind as possible. I try to help newbies. I try to shut down sexist assbutts. So no, not really.

Well then I guess we can close down the thread right here. One dude on the internet is nice to other dudes on the internet! We did it, Reddit!

[Ashleyxoxo]

Toxicity in hardcore game modes is fine, as it fosters competition. Toxic casuals are the problem, as they assume anyone with a brain has no life 'cause they're skilled.

[tommyhil622]

Generally speaking, you'll usually find this boils down to the intersection of human nature and the Greater Internet Theory. Anecdotally, whenever I've had friends or peers get called out on bad behavior online I invariably hear a variation of the old cliche: "it's just the internet, it's not as if any of this is real or anything." Which is a thing I think a lot of people online agree with subconsciously if not fully conciously.

I always try keep in my mind the zeroth rule of performative behavior, which is true both online and off: you are what you pretend to be.

Yea I disagree. You are who you actually are, not the persona you want others to believe.

In the end no matter how well we think we are at hiding our true self, wether it's our online persona or just a facade we put with different people, the truth comes out sooner or later. And that truth, is the real person.

Even while arguing silly stuff like wow or w/e people subconsciously let out their real selves and motivations.