The Toxic Syndrome

[Krimzin]

Anonymity. Once name changes and server transfers came out, people just didn't care anymore. Not to mention the Troll mentality.

[iperson]

The sad fact is that treating other people with respect and kindness has hardly any benefit on increasing your status in the hierarchy...

Politeness is white colonizer culture.

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Sorry if that offends you, but spend a day on Twitter looking through the thousands upon thousands of 'OMG U FUCKING RETARDS RUINED MY CLASS/FAVORITE GUN/ETC, FUCK U HOPE U DIE' type messages that are sent to game developers day in and day out, and let me know how many of those come from women. I did a paper on all the harassment and death threats sent to some of Bioware's writers, messages that numbered in the hundreds and literally every single one of them came from a man or someone presenting as a man. And the vast majority of those messages were directed at female employees.

Meat objectively kills more people than vegetables, and saying that doesn't mean I'm 'meatist' - it means that I refuse to alter a factual statistic to spare the feelings of meat lovers.

And you were calling others racist...

[Bbrigham]

I'm a humanist, a feminist, a poc advocate, a animal rights activist and environmentalist

[Whiskeyjac]

I found wow's solution to this is a almost a "atlas shrugged" approach. The most successful players that can band together to accomplished shared goals tend to self segregate themselves into closed off communities such as guilds, boosting communities, pvp syndicates and so on. These players are rarely toxic to their own in group as doing so is self harming. It can at its most mild level inconvenience them and cause them to miss out on opportunities to either make profit by providing a service that necessitates cooperation or it hinders their ability to advance to a more prestigious station on the progression ladder. At its most sever it can see them being cast out of the ingroup and once again thrusted into the population that has either failed to conform to the system or are otherwise unproven.

As to why it works this way... at even a most basic level people band together far easier when they share a common goal. Wow's general population lacks this constructive influence and is why you tend to see a more lone wolf approach.

[Bbrigham]

I found wow's solution to this is a almost a "atlas shrugged" approach. The most successful players that can band together to accomplished shared goals tend to self segregate themselves into closed off communities such as guilds, boosting communities, pvp syndicates and so on. These players are rarely toxic to their own in group as doing so is self harming. It can at its most mild level inconvenience them and cause them to miss out on opportunities to either make profit by providing a service that necessitates cooperation or it hinders their ability to advance to a more prestigious station on the progression ladder. At its most sever it can see them being cast out of the ingroup and once again thrusted into the population that has either failed to conform to the system or are otherwise unproven.

As to why it works this way... at even a most basic level people band together far easier when they share a common goal. Wow's general population lacks this constructive influence and is why you tend to see a more lone wolf approach.

I exist in a guild just like what you describe. I only wish that the newer people or guildless people had the same experience. Its why ill be volunteering for guidance in Shadowlands

[Aucald]

This thread is beginning to derail into discussion and argument unrelated to WoW, so let's keep it on topic and relevant. Any further derailment will lead to swift closure.

[Toybox]

I exist in a guild just like what you describe. I only wish that the newer people or guildless people had the same experience. Its why ill be volunteering for guidance in Shadowlands

Same here. I hope they don't add any sort of reward to it because I don't want the system to fail solely because people are signing up for a mount/title or whatever, but my biggest advice for anyone who asks how to have the most fun will be to find like-minded individuals to play with, as it really is the best way to enjoy the game.

[Whiskeyjac]

I exist in a guild just like what you describe. I only wish that the newer people or guildless people had the same experience. Its why ill be volunteering for guidance in Shadowlands

I am not sure I can agree with your chosen path but it is your choice to make. Being set adrift in that is part of the crucible. A blade can snap when it is tempered but it must be tempered least it be to brittle and fail.

I am not wholly convinced you can raise new players. Rather those who will rise will do so themselves. They will actively seek out information themselves and in time will seek out a group to prove themselves in. I am unsure if you are able to actively guide a person down that path. I believe the drive must exist first and if it does their rise will be only of their own making and none other.

[Bbrigham]

Same here. I hope they don't add any sort of reward to it because I don't want the system to fail solely because people are signing up for a mount/title or whatever, but my biggest advice for anyone who asks how to have the most fun will be to find like-minded individuals to play with, as it really is the best way to enjoy the game.

Exactly!! I'll be quest guiding, dungeon guiding, basic wow mechanics guiding.....all the things. I love wow and want it to thrive at least 5 more decades

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I am not sure I can agree with your chosen path but it is your choice to make. Being set adrift in that is part of the crucible. A blade can snap when it is tempered but it must be tempered least it be to brittle and fail.

I am not wholly convinced you can raise new players. Rather those who will rise will do so themselves. They will actively seek out information themselves and in time will seek out a group to prove themselves in. I am unsure if you are able to actively guide a person down that path. I believe the drive must exist first and if it does their rise will be only of their own making and none other.

I remember my early days. Exploring Teldrissal, trying to find NPCS, getting involved in the story, and upset with the other faction......but interactions with other players were a huge part of that. Theres no way to recapture the wide-eyed innocence of that era, but I want new or returning players to have a safe environment and interactions that are healthy

[crakerjack]

I can't speak for everyone or all scenarios, but I can see how toxicity arises when people do "challenging" PvE content. I wouldn't slander anyone or name call, but who actually enjoys raiding or doing dungeons with people who don't play the game well? I'm not talking parsing atleast 90%, but if someone is drastically underperforming and it's evident they've never looked at a guide for their spec/class, I don't want to play with them. It's one thing if you're just doing baseline mythic dungeons or normal raid difficulty, but if you're doing heroic or higher raiding or +10 or higher keystones, don't suck.

[Destinas]

Sometimes people are dealing with personal issues and accidentally take it out on other people. They often don't realize how they come off in this case.

Sometimes people are really passionate about a certain game or subject, which may lead to them having a standard that they expect other people to meet for their own playstyle. Often times, people don't realize how this can be self centered, and at times they don't realize that this comes off as elitist.

Sometimes people can't take criticism, or find any kind of question to be a challenge to their opinion or intellect. It's a defensive thing that is part of a person's personality, and they often don't realize that they are the aggressor in these situations.

And sometimes, people are just assholes. Plain and simple.

Of course everyone should be kind, understanding, and confident. But, we aren't always going to find those kinds of people in games and on online forums. We always come across people we clash with in one way or another, and we have been these people at one time or another. You just have to realize that we can only control ourselves, and we don't have to accept how other people act if we don't want to.

[Bbrigham]

Sometimes people are dealing with personal issues and accidentally take it out on other people. They often don't realize how they come off in this case.

Sometimes people are really passionate about a certain game or subject, which may lead to them having a standard that they expect other people to meet for their own playstyle. Often times, people don't realize how this can be self centered, and at times they don't realize that this comes off as elitist.

Sometimes people can't take criticism, or find any kind of question to be a challenge to their opinion or intellect. It's a defensive thing that is part of a person's personality, and they often don't realize that they are the aggressor in these situations.

And sometimes, people are just assholes. Plain and simple.

Of course everyone should be kind, understanding, and confident. But, we aren't always going to find those kinds of people in games and on online forums. We always come across people we clash with in one way or another, and we have been these people at one time or another. You just have to realize that we can only control ourselves, and we don't have to accept how other people act if we don't want to.

This was well said, and in fact, answers my original question. Thank you very much.

[Sughs]

People venting off and taking advantage of anonymity. It's been a problem for long now, in WoW and the overall Internet. It's definitely getting worse tho. Sometimes you just want to chill, you arrive home tired and start playing / debating politely on some forums and in less than five minutes you are frustrated and losing even more hope in humanity.

[arr0gance]

You even use the word "suggest" which implies its your interpretation of his intentions. You can rarely know someones intentions better than they do. And its wrong most of the time to assume malevolent intent by default.

Yes, because a guy who proudly proclaims he has pirate heritage and is a "male feminist" should be taken at face value.

Look, I get it. The internet (and WoW) would be a better place if mean people would just fuck off and die. But they're not going to and this thread certainly isn't going to put a dent in the root cause of the problem. Personally I just can't see much of a purpose to this thread outside of fishing for meaningless platitudes for having a perceived superior moral compass.

To each their own, I suppose. I'm gonna check out of this thread now.

[Amariw]

So, this may be a devisive post, but I'm curious what the general wow community thinks about it. In the decade plus I have played wow, I have experienced good interactions...and some really really toxic ones. Here too. But I'm curious why you-you being the WoW player, or the forum goer- why do you think people are so toxic? I mean, it doesn't help. It doesn't add to the fun of others. Its not conducive to a healthy game or forum environment. So why then?? Why be toxic. Either on WoW or in forum.

I've been playing all expansions for at least some time, and my memory may be off but i think the atmosphere in m+ made it worse then it used to be. WoW always had a competitive endgame mindset, but m+ added the elements of keys failling and degrading which puts a ton of pressure and dissapointment in failed runs. Every action you take as a tank, heal or dps is scrunitzed (in some cases, i've had many good runs too). Because every action affects the timer, its not just if you eventually kill a boss or not.

It's one big reason i think the community might be better off if keys didn't degrade a level upon failure but simply stayed as they are (so a +18 remains a +18 if you fail). Don't see much of a problem with it and it will make fails far less painful cuz you can just try again rather then having to up the key and risk failling that too.

[Sughs]

I've been playing all expansions for at least some time, and my memory may be off but i think the atmosphere in m+ made it worse then it used to be. WoW always had a competitive endgame mindset, but m+ added the elements of keys failling and degrading which puts a ton of pressure and dissapointment in failed runs. Every action you take as a tank, heal or dps is scrunitzed (in some cases, i've had many good runs too). Because every action affects the timer, its not just if you eventually kill a boss or not.

It's one big reason i think the community might be better off if keys didn't degrade a level upon failure but simply stayed as they are (so a +18 remains a +18 if you fail). Don't see much of a problem with it and it will make fails far less painful cuz you can just try again rather then having to up the key and risk failling that too.

And to keep a way to downgrade a key they could let you play any difficulty below said key. If you have a +12 key for example you could do it in any difficulty from +2 to +12.

[LDancer]

I find that back in the Classic/BC before x-realm groups were a thing, people would generally be the better version of themselves as one’s reputation is one of the key factors for getting into groups/raids.

Once x-realm happened, one could join a group and they wouldn’t care about the repercussions of being a dick to people in the group as they could leave and never deal with that blacklisting of their name across their server

[Shinrael]

So, this may be a devisive post, but I'm curious what the general wow community thinks about it. In the decade plus I have played wow, I have experienced good interactions...and some really really toxic ones. Here too. But I'm curious why you-you being the WoW player, or the forum goer- why do you think people are so toxic? I mean, it doesn't help. It doesn't add to the fun of others. Its not conducive to a healthy game or forum environment. So why then?? Why be toxic. Either on WoW or in forum.

Because people are unhappy. Not with WoW. With life in general. You see them smiling, you see them laughing, you see them praising things and being excited about stuff. But that's just all on surface level and deep inside they are not happy, not satisfied, not content, not appreciative of their lives. And you might think I am overexaggerating, but YOU asked the question - why would a person try to ruin other people's fun? Why would you be so excessively rude to others? Sure, being annonimous online is a big factor, but there are still those who try to help others have fun and are polite and helpful despite being anonimous. So it doesn't come down to simply being anonimous. The problem is in the people. Our current generation technology and way of life only goes to put the spotlight on such problematic people.

The happy person doesn't go whining about every little thing every day non stop on random anonimous forums either. Take a hint, fellow MMO Champions.

[Tesshin83]

Because people are unhappy. Not with WoW. With life in general. You see them smiling, you see them laughing, you see them praising things and being excited about stuff. But that's just all on surface level and deep inside they are not happy, not satisfied, not content, not appreciative of their lives. And you might think I am overexaggerating, but YOU asked the question - why would a person try to ruin other people's fun? Why would you be so excessively rude to others? Sure, being annonimous online is a big factor, but there are still those who try to help others have fun and are polite and helpful despite being anonimous. So it doesn't come down to simply being anonimous. The problem is in the people. Our current generation technology and way of life only goes to put the spotlight on such problematic people.

The happy person doesn't go whining about every little thing every day non stop on random anonimous forums either. Take a hint, fellow MMO Champions.

Hear hear. The amount of complaining of every attempt Blizzard tries to do to improve the game is getting more and more absurd.

There was complaining in Vanilla too, but not at this frequency.

[trapmaster]

The Toxic Syndrome is an addiction... Most people just want to be "bad" for fun out of it.