Level squish in future expansions

[Onikaroshi]

Everyone that would quit because of it is either lying to themselves, or they were going to quit when the first expansion after they first played gets released either way.

People being completely reset every expansion is not any more or less true than it would be with any other system. People are reset to baseline at the beginning of an expansion as a matter of course. That's the point of increasing the level cap. It doesn't make sense to me to say something is suddenly a problem when it literally has happened every time.

Except not really, under the system before they started squishing your stats and level were always increasing, you were always progressing. The external world was also harder though which meant that progression was needed, you weren't "reset to baseline" you were still a stronger character than you were before you leveled.

[Lucetia]

It wouldn't be squishing it again though, it would just be putting more expansions into the 'pool' to level from 1-50. We'd just keep going to 50 at the start of every expansion pre-patch; I think it makes a lot more sense than going higher again.

It wouldn't make sense and would be dumb. De-leveling is dumb just as much as rescaling our stats. If this is something they plan on doing then they just need to leave us at 50 or 60 and come up with something else for us to do. People aren't going to be happy to go 50 to 60 then to 50 to 60 constantly.

[Daedius]

For all we know they might keep this system of everything becoming up to level 50, and next expansion becoming level 60.

So come the pre-patch of expansion after shadowlands, we're all back to level 50, and that expansion we level to 60 again... cause it'd be odd having all expansions till Legion to level 50, then Shadowlands to 60, and follow up expansion to 70... goes against the "choose your level path" they're doing.

[Amnaught]

Doubt it. They only reason for the squish is because things got out of hand. They won’t need to do it again for a while.

Fuck. That.

New characters should always go straight to the most recent past expansion at level 10. Keep the timeline straight.




I actually don't believe they'll "squish" all the levels in the same way though. My expectation is that they'll just bump everyone above 50 down to level 50, and only squish Shadowlands content so it scales like the other expansions. Sounds a lot more sustainable in the long term than constantly changing the levels of everything.

[IndCold]

I kinda want to keep gaining 10 levels every expansion (as long as all preceding expansions go from 10 to previous max level), and if we happen to hit 100 again we get another squish.

[Onikaroshi]

For all we know they might keep this system of everything becoming up to level 50, and next expansion becoming level 60.

So come the pre-patch of expansion after shadowlands, we're all back to level 50, and that expansion we level to 60 again... cause it'd be odd having all expansions till Legion to level 50, then Shadowlands to 60, and follow up expansion to 70... goes against the "choose your level path" they're doing.

They have complete control over leveling, they could easily adjust XP so you can go from 10-60 in a single expansion.

[Shaetha]

Except not really, under the system before they started squishing your stats and level were always increasing, you were always progressing. The external world was also harder though which meant that progression was needed, you weren't "reset to baseline" you were still a stronger character than you were before you leveled.

Yes, you were reset to a baseline by leveling. That's the entire purpose of increasing the level cap. Nothing has changed. You've just been given a new angle to make an argument that has never made sense. Like I said, anyone that has a problem with being reset is either lying to themselves or were going to quit after the next expansion.

Anything else is people that complain about literally any change because they get off on it.

[arr0gance]

It's nice to see so many people with triple PhD's in arm chair game development weighing in with their opinions on how levels will work in future expansions.

Fact is, we have no fucking clue. But knowing Blizzard they'll take the laziest, easiest-to-understand method going forward so that means the next expansion will have a level 70 level cap.

[Collected]

I kinda want to keep gaining 10 levels every expansion (as long as all preceding expansions go from 10 to previous max level), and if we happen to hit 100 again we get another squish.

But then the time it takes to level a new character and reach current content gets longer and longer again. That's something Blizzard want to avoid in an effort to win over new players in the 2020 MMO genre. It's no coincidence 1-50 takes something like 60% less time than 1-110 currently does. Adding on 10 levels every expansion starts creating all of the problems they've just fixed in Shadowlands.

[Onikaroshi]

Yes, you were reset to a baseline by leveling. That's the entire purpose of increasing the level cap. Nothing has changed. You've just been given a new angle to make an argument that has never made sense. Like I said, anyone that has a problem with being reset is either lying to themselves or were going to quit after the next expansion.

Anything else is people that complain about literally any change because they get off on it.

You were still more powerful than your prior expansion self, it was still progression. This is regression.

In vanilla you were level 60 and did 800 dps, in TBC you were leveling 70 and did 1100 dps (made up numbers), this is progression.

In BfA you are 120 and do 80k dps, in SL you will be 60 and do 4k, it's regression.

Sure, power levels to the mobs you are facing are equal, but you're losing character progression.

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But then the time it takes to level a new character and reach current content gets longer and longer again. That's something Blizzard want to avoid in an effort to win over new players in the 2020 MMO genre. It's no coincidence 1-50 takes something like 60% less time than 1-110 currently does. Adding on 10 levels every expansion starts creating all of the problems they've just fixed in Shadowlands.

game isn't going to be around long enough for it to become a problem again.

[Collected]

game isn't going to be around long enough for it to become a problem again.

People have been saying that for years. I can easily see another two expansions at least before this game is done. Probably more.

[Onikaroshi]

People have been saying that for years. I can easily see another two expansions at least before this game is done. Probably more.

You're talking 10+ years before you hit 100 again going by 2 year expansions. It's at least 4 MORE expansions before you hit 100 again and they'd have to be thinking about a 5th one before you're talking going over 100.

[Collected]

Fact is, we have no fucking clue. But knowing Blizzard they'll take the laziest, easiest-to-understand method going forward so that means the next expansion will have a level 70 level cap.

Disagree. The easiest method would be adding Shadowlands to Chromie Time as another 10-50 experience that new players are funnelled through just like with BFA. That's what everyone will be familiar with by the time 10.0 rolls along. Slapping 10 levels onto the game goes back to the old way of doing things.

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You're talking 10+ years before you hit 100 again going by 2 year expansions.

Sure but the problems begin the moment you add an extra 10 levels on top of what we have now. That results in more levelling time for new characters and other knock on impacts such as the talents becoming strung out again. They won't want to return to that world of pain.

[DechCJC]

It wouldn't make sense and would be dumb. De-leveling is dumb just as much as rescaling our stats. If this is something they plan on doing then they just need to leave us at 50 or 60 and come up with something else for us to do. People aren't going to be happy to go 50 to 60 then to 50 to 60 constantly.

A compromise I can come up with would be to increase the cap to 70 but throw Shadowlands into the new 1-60 leveling range, adjusting experience rates so that it's the same time as the current 1-50. I don't really care either way, but I think it's a lot better than picking 1 out of 8 expansions and then having to fully do 9.0, 10.0, 11.0 and so on.

I just enjoy the model of 'Pick 1 old expansion, experience it fully, now play the current one'. I want that design to stay, don't really care how they go about it.

[Onikaroshi]

Sure but the problems begin the moment you add an extra 10 levels on top of what we have now. That results in more levelling time for new characters and other knock on impacts such as the talents becoming strung out again. They won't want to return to that world of pain.

Not really, blizzard controls leveling speeds entirely, they can easily have you level 10-60 in one expansions the same time you level 10-50

[rrayy]

Every expansion has been a reset.... You do realize the "Power" you gain is actually a illusion right?

Not a complete reset and your power didn't always reset either. Your numbers went up. So, no every expansion has not been a reset.

[Lora]

I remember reading a blue post or an interview where Blizzard said that future expansions will work like Shadowlands according to the level squish and max level:

Every new expansion we get set back to level 50 and the new max level is again level 60.

Unfortunately I can't find this blue post or interview anymore.
Can someome please help me?

i too remember reading something that never existed.

[rrayy]

Disagree. The easiest method would be adding Shadowlands to Chromie Time as another 10-50 experience that new players are funnelled through just like with BFA. That's what everyone will be familiar with by the time 10.0 rolls along. Slapping 10 levels onto the game goes back to the old way of doing things.

No the easiest method would be adding 10 levels because they would not have to touch 1-60 at all.

Sure but the problems begin the moment you add an extra 10 levels on top of what we have now. That results in more levelling time for new characters and other knock on impacts such as the talents becoming strung out again. They won't want to return to that world of pain.

It isn't pain. ANd there are no problems adding to the cap again. Nobody complained about leveling until BFA. Tha tmeans you can stand to go to 100 again. And it doesn't have to result in added leveling time as you as you make 10-160 take just as long as 10-50 does now. And you don't have to string out talents if you actually add one or 2. Having to go from 50-60 every expansion will cause a lot of players to quit as progression becomes pointless.

[Shaetha]

You were still more powerful than your prior expansion self, it was still progression. This is regression.

In vanilla you were level 60 and did 800 dps, in TBC you were leveling 70 and did 1100 dps (made up numbers), this is progression.

In BfA you are 120 and do 80k dps, in SL you will be 60 and do 4k, it's regression.

Sure, power levels to the mobs you are facing are equal, but you're losing character progression.

Every expansion outside major class changes has started with you doing less DPS at the new level cap than you did at the previous. Once again, I ask, how is that different? You aren't losing character progression. You're losing gear. The character still did the stuff it did. Basing your enjoyment around showing off instead of having fun means you're always going to have a bad time.

[rrayy]

But then the time it takes to level a new character and reach current content gets longer and longer again. That's something Blizzard want to avoid in an effort to win over new players in the 2020 MMO genre. It's no coincidence 1-50 takes something like 60% less time than 1-110 currently does. Adding on 10 levels every expansion starts creating all of the problems they've just fixed in Shadowlands.

Why? You know they can adjust XP requirements and gains to make it take the next expansion take as long as this one. 10-60 now takes as long as 10-50 did. It doesn't create any problems. People can handle leveling to 100 again before another squish. Resetting back to 50 every expansion kills progression completely.There is absolutely no reason to ever play the game again.

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Every expansion outside major class changes has started with you doing less DPS at the new level cap than you did at the previous. Once again, I ask, how is that different? You aren't losing character progression. You're losing gear. The character still did the stuff it did. Basing your enjoyment around showing off instead of having fun means you're always going to have a bad time.

No it didn't. You progressive did more until they did a ILvL squish. ANd yes you are losing progression. Having your level go up and continuing through each expansion was the progression because you knew you would get 10 more levels. And it isn't about showing off either. It is about a sense of getting more powerful. Resetting to 50 every expansion kills that sense completely because it was the one thing you did have that kept increasing. There is zero wrong with waaiting until 100 until the resetting to 50. It does not and should not be done every expansion.