1. #13141
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Jesus.

    There's more people to get enthused than the people that can vote in a primary.

    Your argument is essentially saying, if a person doesn't vote in a primary they likely won't in the general and if they do then their vote isn't worth anything.
    /sigh

    No, you continue to not understand my point. Listen:

    If a candidate is going to "bring out the vote", then we will see, OVERALL, an increased number of people voting, in whatever category of person, during the Primary - in relation to the Primary itself (meaning not in relation to the General). Bernie was supposed to bring out the young vote, but the young vote did not show up for the Primary, so the idea that Bernie would "bring out the vote" in the General, is factually/objectively/logically wrong.

    Explain to me how that is wrong, according to you.

  2. #13142
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    GOP thinks there are 4 women in DNC that are the biggest threat to them... AOC is the biggest threat, if you judge by GOP action. They are building her to be their next Hillary.
    I personally just think she's the future of the party if she can unite all the different bits.

  3. #13143
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I hope the Blue Wave from 2018 continues to build. This fuckery with the USPS is frightening.
    If all else fails...

    https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/wh...ew-zealand/usa

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    I personally just think she's the future of the party if she can unite all the different bits.
    She is, but they need to go on the offensive. I’m watching history repeat, they did this to Hillary.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #13144
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Dude... I’m 41...



    Again, that’s irrelevant to what I’m saying. You keep going on about undefined independents, which lets me use math with a random data set. You are wrong, not because of political leaning defining independents, but because they are a random number set, which lets us use very basic math. As soon as you define independents as random, I get to apply math that applies to all random data sets.

    Your political definitions means jack shit to math.

    Also, I gave you a link that showed how Trump ran as a moderate. Basically, he ran as a populist against the elites... Alt right calls Trump a classic liberal. Half the country is not extreme right... read the article and tell me how either my summery, or something I missed, is wrong.



    My way doesn’t assume political leaning of independents. I have no interest in discussing why independents voted for either candidate. As I said, I don’t read minds.


    What do you think it makes you look like, when I don’t stoop to these levels? Think about it...



    Nope... in fact, I cut it out, because it’s just rambling. Your argument that populace is fatigued on Trump, so you are arguing that Bernie would represent that, better than Biden... doesn’t make sense. You are just acting status quo the last 3 years was the same as 3 years ago... why should I bother? Trump is the incumbent... if you think the status quo now, is the same as it was before Trump, we are at an impasse that cannot be overcome. The reason I voting for Biden, is because of being fatigued with status quo of Trump.



    Based on people who are sick of the status quo, not voting against Trump, because shit is the same as it was 4 years ago? Absurd...



    What adult does this? What adult do you know, that posts like this? Trump?



    If they made the safe choice, everyone you are arguing against is 100% right. Your bullshit about independents is meant less. My guess... by the time you finally finished writing out your arguments, that’s exactly what you realized.



    Figured out any adults that act like this yet? No?



    Don’t care... due to WA rules at the time, public voting in primary was irrelevant for both, 2008 and 2016.
    You ignored most of my points and the ones you did address you either, again, misrepresented or discounted for reasons that don't make sense.

    Yes, I insulted you, because you've purposely tried to annoy me by misrepresenting my arguments to fit your own made up arguments. That's not something adults do either, except Trump and his supporters. So I guess we're both guilty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    /sigh

    No, you continue to not understand my point. Listen:

    If a candidate is going to "bring out the vote", then we will see, OVERALL, an increased number of people voting, in whatever category of person, during the Primary - in relation to the Primary itself (meaning not in relation to the General). Bernie was supposed to bring out the young vote, but the young vote did not show up for the Primary, so the idea that Bernie would "bring out the vote" in the General, is factually/objectively/logically wrong.

    Explain to me how that is wrong, according to you.
    I understand your point. It is just wrong and not founded in anything other than your mind.

    Increasing voter turnout can happen in just the general election. There is nothing anywhere that says it must happen in the primaries other than your head. You still haven't given anything in the way of a fact or logic or solid reasoning as to why you think that.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  5. #13145
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If all else fails...

    https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/wh...ew-zealand/usa

    - - - Updated - - -



    She is, but they need to go on the offensive. I’m watching history repeat, they did this to Hillary.
    Better bring a lot of money. Real estate is expensive. Not SF expensive. However, Auckland is about SD expensive.

  6. #13146
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Explain to me how that is wrong, according to you.
    If it’s any conciliation, note that in his reply to me, he said Biden was the safe choice. Consider what it means to your argument.

    Just saw another Biden ad attacking insurance companies... Jets vs 49ers... the way the game is going, healthcare is very apt. Bosa down... even as a seahawk fan and not a fan of his politics, what a stud... that sucks...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  7. #13147
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If it’s any conciliation, note that in his reply to me, he said Biden was the safe choice. Consider what it means to your argument.

    Just saw another Biden ad attacking insurance companies... Jets vs 49ers... the way the game is going, healthcare is very apt. Bosa down... even as a seahawk fan and not a fan of his politics, what a stud... that sucks...
    No I didn't. I said Dems believe he's the safe choice based on their wrongheaded notion that independents are moderate. But yeah, keep making shit up post after post.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  8. #13148
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Sold! I'll see you there - we can adopt some Koala Bears or something.

  9. #13149
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    It is what it is. For whatever reason, Democratic voters did not show up in 2016. Hopefully, this and the last 4 years remind them that there are consequences to elections.
    I don't know why we're trying to continue to beat this dead horse when the answer is obvious to anyone with a fully developed cerebrum.

    1-Hillary was a guaranteed win
    2-People weren't enthused with Hillary
    3-Donald Trump seemed like a joke
    4-Donald Trump's message was simplistic enough for even the dumbest simpletons to get behind (Build the Wall, Drain the Swamp, Lock her Up)

    The result was a campaign that had the aid of foreign assistance on social media (and possibly at the polls) to deliver Trump a win by ~100,000 votes in a few key areas to get an EC victory while losing the Pop vote by millions.

    Hillary ran a bad campaign when she didn't even bother to stop at some of these places were she lost be a few thousand votes.

  10. #13150
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    If it’s any conciliation, note that in his reply to me, he said Biden was the safe choice. Consider what it means to your argument.
    I also saw his longer post that...um...wasn't well received. At some point, people just can't admit when they are wrong. I guess the big picture is that he'll be voting for Biden. At this point it's all that matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Just saw another Biden ad attacking insurance companies... Jets vs 49ers... the way the game is going, healthcare is very apt. Bosa down... even as a seahawk fan and not a fan of his politics, what a stud... that sucks...
    Interesting ad and tact by Biden.

  11. #13151
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Better bring a lot of money. Real estate is expensive. Not SF expensive. However, Auckland is about SD expensive.
    I have a house 10 miles from downtown Seattle... I own around 50% of it... Biden better win... lol

    (The owner had a medical emergency, had to sell ASAP and we didn’t bother contacting the agent, went there minutes after it came on sale. Didn’t fuck around... moved in 2 weeks later. The deal was insane... I never met the owners, but I really hope they are doing great. All of the disability features in the house are just amazing for issues the gf is having.)

    Fuck drawback to moving out of US... I’d have to marry my gf... I don’t know... we’ve only been together for over 20 years... I just haven’t made up my mind... lol... we just don’t give a fuck about marriage...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  12. #13152
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I also saw his longer post that...um...wasn't well received. At some point, people just can't admit when they are wrong. I guess the big picture is that he'll be voting for Biden. At this point it's all that matters.
    You can address that post to me.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  13. #13153
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    No I didn't. I said Dems believe he's the safe choice based on their wrongheaded notion that independents are moderate. But yeah, keep making shit up post after post.
    Sure... the distinction is irrelevant to what I’m saying...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #13154
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    /sigh

    No, you continue to not understand my point. Listen:

    If a candidate is going to "bring out the vote", then we will see, OVERALL, an increased number of people voting, in whatever category of person, during the Primary - in relation to the Primary itself (meaning not in relation to the General). Bernie was supposed to bring out the young vote, but the young vote did not show up for the Primary, so the idea that Bernie would "bring out the vote" in the General, is factually/objectively/logically wrong.

    Explain to me how that is wrong, according to you.
    The whole thing is super shoddy even if you accept their arguments

    Like, "Bernie would have totally brought new voters to the base, there is no evidence of this just trust"

  15. #13155
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Sure... the distinction is irrelevant to what I’m saying...
    At this point, I'm just trying to get you to accurately recount my points instead of the bullshit you've been pulling.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  16. #13156
    The Undying
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    the Quiet Room
    Posts
    34,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    It is just wrong and not founded in anything other than your mind.
    You continuing to attack people like this is pretty indicative that you know you're wrong, and just can't admit it. Maybe you could dial back the childish responses and bring it back above board. I'm not going to sit here and eat your shit for much longer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    I understand your point.
    You really don't. Or at least you haven't explained it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Increasing voter turnout can happen in just the general election. There is nothing anywhere that says it must happen in the primaries other than your head.
    Did you read that before you posted? Seriously, not being facetious here - your argument is literally coming out of your head/feels, and you're claiming that your head/feels is "truth", without any cites or links or anything outside your words - which have been consistently wrong in the logic and objective data. Keep in mind, my position comes from DATA.

    REMEMBER - we're looking at the numbers from this past Primary along with others in the past. What are you looking at? Are you using any evidence? Remember, evidence is a fact, not a position you lay out with words.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    You still haven't given anything in the way of a fact or logic or solid reasoning as to why you think that.
    So you're saying that a candidate can fail to increase voter turnout in the Primary (i.e. enthusiasm), but yet somehow increase the turnout in the General? I've posted both logic and reasoning, along with the empirical numbers from past elections, to show this is wrong.

    What have you posted beyond your "feels" again? We must have missed it, could you put the links up again, please?

  17. #13157
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    The whole thing is super shoddy even if you accept their arguments

    Like, "Bernie would have totally brought new voters to the base, there is no evidence of this just trust"
    My argument wasn't that they he'd have brought to voters to the base. My argument is that independents would be more likely to vote for him or Warren over Trump if covid hadn't happened.

    I'm noticing a trend here......
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  18. #13158
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    At this point, I'm just trying to get you to accurately recount my points instead of the bullshit you've been pulling.
    I am... if I don’t specify, you can assume that I believed the specifics were unnecessary. If you disagree, feel free to point it out. But, I’m watching a game, so don’t take skipping posts or taking a while to reply personally... I also got to cook a chicken soon... saying it, because it’s both funny and true... I got a chicken to cook...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  19. #13159
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A highly disgruntled constituent of Lindsey Graham.
    Posts
    6,167
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Don’t for a minute pretend Democrats wouldn’t do the same thing if given the chance. In fact they tried in Obama’s last year with Merrick Garland. Maybe Ginsburg should have retired early on in Obama’s second term and this wouldn’t be an issue for Democrats.
    Missing the forest for the trees here. Yes, Trump should fill RBGs seat, it is an opening that happened during Trump's term in office. BUT, the GOP changed those rules with Merrick Garland, and stuffed Gorsuch instead. Now they want to pretend that rule change never happened, because it doesn't benefit them this time.

    That is the entire point here, they make rules they won't abide by themselves, because it has nothing to do with good government or "The will of the people", it has everything to do with power. The GOP is trying to get both Scalia's seat and Ginsberg's seat, and that is bullshit no matter how you slice it.

  20. #13160
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    The whole thing is super shoddy even if you accept their arguments

    Like, "Bernie would have totally brought new voters to the base, there is no evidence of this just trust"
    I would argue it’s worse. If the far left shows they are unreliable voters, democrats have to go right. They won’t have a choice.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •