With no titanforging we need more stats on gear

[Kehego]

Considering a portion of your post was just insults, i don't think that's really something worth complaining about.

Looking at Corruption or Azerite, i think that argument stands on thin ice.

And mind you, putting gear for not for your current spec on the bank has always been an option, especially since swapping around specs wasn't something you'd have to do on the fly, unlike Corruption or Azerite which you swap around based on the fight.

Also, said gear seperation also existed in Wotlk, where dual spec as a thing.
Or in MoP, where you could swap between specs freely.

You mean pre wod when tier didn't swap specs with you and you still had to get full sets of gear and you still couldn't do fuckshit without substantial preparation? Lmao you're stupid just stop. having them in the bank/on person isn't what's important, is that you had to collect 15 pieces of gear to be able to even dream of doing the role

that's it


and don't be a jackass and pretend that everyone isn't swimming in azerite, hell people had more gearing options in week 2 of bfa than they did throughout the entirety of the first 3 expansions.

[Kralljin]

You mean pre wod when tier didn't swap specs with you and you still had to get full sets of gear and you still couldn't do fuckshit without substantial preparation?

Because tier set tokens were such an inconsistent drop?

and don't be a jackass and pretend that everyone isn't swimming in azerite, hell people had more gearing options in week 2 of bfa than they did throughout the entirety of the first 3 expansions.

It's about bagspace, Azerite and Corruption came alongside massive issues because you wore different items depending on the boss, M+, PvP or your spec.

[Ielenia]

Looking at Corruption or Azerite, i think that argument stands on thin ice.

The "Azerite Gear" system is, in my opinion, leagues better than the "set gear" system used to be.

With set gear:
• You need at least two pieces to get one bonus.
• You need a minimum of 4 pieces to get both bonuses.
• Gear slots taken by set bonuses are basically "locked", preventing you from replacing them if you do not want to lose the set bonus.

With azerite gear:
• A single azerite gear already offers you bonus.
• A full set can offers up to 12 bonuses.
• Each piece can be replaced without losing the bonuses granted by the other pieces.

[Kralljin]

The "Azerite Gear" system is, in my opinion, leagues better than the "set gear" system used to be.

I don't want to go down the whole Azerite vs. Tier set armor discussion, this has been discussed to death at this point.

My point however was that you needed to have multiple Azerite Items in your bags to be optimal for variety of Raid bosses, M+, PvP or an offspec, thus it also caused massive bagspace issues.

If you think Azerite is better, whatever, but the bagspace argument does not work in Azerite's favor in my opinion.

[Scrysis]

This has existed in Wotlk, Cata and MoP.

If this ever was a major issue, then Blizzard didn't even consider it worth solving for ~5 years.
And Tanks have gotten more complex to play and you can't measure that in any shape or form.

Okay, do you really believe an item that reads "+Dodge" or "+Mana regen" confuses a new player?

Actually, I think it's the whole "Dodge, block, parry, armor" thing that would be confusing. If you're a new player, how would you figure out how much dodge and parry to balance on a DK? What about bonus armor? Or how much dodge and parry vs block on a paladin? I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. I think you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about because this is core to "not making secondary stats boring". You may like the extra complexity that these stats bring, but they also act as a gatekeeping system.

Tanks HAVE gotten more complex to play, and apparently that isn't enough for you. You have to add EVEN MORE COMPLEXITY to it. At least when a new player figures out talents and mechanics for their class, they can keep going, but now you add in balancing tank stats along side the stats we already have.

Look at this whole Conduit & Soulbind system, this is X times more confusing than any of those stats.

Uh, not really. Conduits don't have to be balanced every time you get a new piece of gear or even a new raid tier. You look at your conduits, decide which ones affect things that you like, and then every time a new raid tier comes out, you upgrade that specific one. Whereas some poor new guy hits the parry soft cap and doesn't even know it. Or maybe he goes so far as to hit the hard cap. Then he doesn't even know that he has to rebalance all of his gear.

This whole "confuses the player" argument is one massive strawman, WoW has gotten more complicated in terms of systems for the past 5 years because Blizzard always throws in new systems that players need to re learn on how they work.

I don't think it is a strawman. Yeah, new systems are being added every expansion. But guess what? You want to add in yet ANOTHER SYSTEM. Worse yet, it's a system that's going to introduce gatekeeping without any real benefit. If you haven't figured it out, I play healers primarily. But right now, I can level my DK as unholy, and then swap to blood. I don't have to carry a full second set of gear. I don't have to do tons of research to balance out all of my shit. It just works. I ask my friend on what talents are good, look at some azerite traits, and I can go tank. If specialized tanking gear was impactful, I'd have to keep getting gear just to tank. It would take me a lot longer, and I'd have to research it.

I think this more comes more down to "people not wanting to tank", rather than "not having the gear", a lot of players used to gather gear for their 2nd spec while playing their main spec.

Yeah, and it was never as good as their first spec. Most of the time, it was hand-me downs in raid, so you'd have a ret pally with a partial tank set. Not even a full one. And what would happen? They wouldn't tank. Or if they did, they were shit to heal. In this era of Mythic plus, that's going to be bad. Very bad. If you add additional gearing requirements, who is going to want to tank? You're going to lose at least a portion of this small segment of the playerbase who say "I raid as a dps, but like to tank outside of raid" suddenly decide that the tank gear requirement is too much work and leave. And then you're going to have a segment that's going to half-ass it. We have enough crazy ass tanks running around. We don't need to add gear as a reason to make more of them worse.

Is this argument a joke?
Look how complicated tanks were to play in Wotlk, look what tanks have to do now.

This whole active mitigation thing is far more mechanically complex, whereas previously the gear took care off the defensive aspect.

Actually, the challenge in Wotlk was not mitigation, but threat. I mean, we can go back to threat as a challenge, but the DPS are going to HATE IT. It will be like having the skittish affix on everything. Hell, I'll hate it as a healer because the damn melee are going to rip threat every 2 seconds, less in M+. I used to tank Halls of Reflection as frost because of the delicious snap aggro I could put on everything.

If you look at the evidence, Blizzard is NOT going to go back to threat as the challenge. They literally just took the skittish affix off the table for SL M+. So no, they're not going to make active mitigation any less complex than it is now because tanks wouldn't have anything to do. So adding gearing complexity to active mitigation is only going to make things more complex for the sake of complexity.

Previously:
"Here's your BiS list"
"Okay"

Current:
"These are the stats you want as tank"
"Okay"

A game where Raidbots has become mandatory cannot pull this argument.

We're not getting azerite traits next expansion. Nice try. If anything, it seems like Blizzard wants to go to a simpler gearing system. I mean, azerite introduced a LOT of complexity to the system. Hard to balance, and confusing to players. Raidbots became mandatory this expansion because of it. Blizzard devs are allowed to learn from their mistakes. My argument still stands.

Fair enough, it was however one of the hallmarks to actually feel your character getting stronger, rather than just numbers growing bigger.

No. BAD. Stop looking at that other guy's nostalgia, because that's what it is. It was NEVER a "hallmark of your character getting stronger". You know why? Because healer power had, and continues to have, a MASSIVE IMPACT on content. The vast majority of players never even realize how powerful healers are in the relative scope of the game. Back when we had spirit regen, each expansion became a slowly expanding arms race because of it (it still is, but much more manageable). If you didn't see it, then you probably didn't raid, because that's where all of the new content came in.

The healer arms race is a real thing, and it leads to shitty encounter design. Healer power actually scales slower than either tanks or dps because of it. Tank health is finite and there are caps on avoidance. DPS health is finite, and you can always increase relative boss health, either through adds, mechanics, phases, etc. But healers? If there is no limit on healer mana, the only way create challenge for healers and to put a fail state on the raid is through MASSIVE DAMAGE. Instead of the fire doing 15% of a player's health on tick, now the fire has to do 45% of the player's health on tick. Tank taking damage? Now the hits have to force healers to spam since there is no threat of going oom, so now a boss hit will do 75% of a tank's health. Why is this bad? Latency. Mental fatigue. Low framerate. Carpal tunnel. Sure, this stuff is good for Mythic-tier raids where you want extreme challenges for the top 1%. But not normal. Not heroic raids. THIS KIND OF SHIT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Also, you're ignoring the fact that this would unbalance Mistweavers. Mistweavers are literally designed around being able to run out of mana. Otherwise, they could continuously spam people back to full health.

Tanks already need to watch the healers Mana, if an DPS pulls, then you have another issue at hand.

Same argument for tanks.

I won't disagree, that it doesn't mean that it won't happen more often with a reversion. Way back, Blizzard made the mistake of designing dungeons that didn't need crowd control, and the playerbase got used to it. Now they have difficulties reintroducing that idea.

Likewise, players get used to healers at the end of an expansion not needing mana. Then, at the beginning of the expansion, they forgot that mana once again became a thing. Then they would run ahead and get mad at the healer for drinking. Was it the healer's fault that they needed to drink? NO. Did the other players know that? No, they did not as they didn't play a healer. I used to literally run into groups that thought you were a bad healer for needing to drink early in an xpac. Now? Now is much better. I might OCCASIONALLY need to drink after unusually big pulls or a fair amount into the dungeon. And groups have gotten used to this idea. I have more pug tanks stopping when I sit and drink. Or at the very least do a small pull. The mentality is very different now. Consistency is better.

- - - Updated - - -

1. I don't remember anyone complaining about gear being locked, that's just a weak justification Blizzard invented after tier gear removal
2. Find me 1 azerite trait that changed your gameplay anywhere near as much as some set bonuses - sure, a lot of the time tier sets didn't change you much, but every tier had at least a few classes that got something interesting and gameplay-changing

Sorry, don't want to get into that argument, but your second challenge was just screaming at me to answer it. The Glimmer azerite trait literally changed the way an entire spec played to the point where it is now being turned into a talent.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Essentially we don't quite need any stats on gear since everyone is gunning for the same bis list. If anything i think we need more situational gear than just trinkets to have a reason to collect more stuff.

[Ielenia]

1. I don't remember anyone complaining about gear being locked, that's just a weak justification Blizzard invented after tier gear removal

I don't remember ever mentioning that "people complained", meaning that this is nothing but a red herring. I simply stated that this is my opinion and laid out the facts which make me I think why one system is better than the other.

2. Find me 1 azerite trait that changed your gameplay anywhere near as much as some set bonuses - sure, a lot of the time tier sets didn't change you much, but every tier had at least a few classes that got something interesting and gameplay-changing

One? Okay. Frost death knight. The "Icy Citadel" azerite trait makes the "Icecap" talent build a viable alternative to "Breath of Sindragosa" build. Your turn. Show me a tier set from Legion that "changed your gameplay" significantly.

[Kralljin]

Actually, I think it's the whole "Dodge, block, parry, armor" thing that would be confusing. If you're a new player, how would you figure out how much dodge and parry to balance on a DK? What about bonus armor? Or how much dodge and parry vs block on a paladin? I think you're being deliberately obtuse here.

No, the difference is simply that those stats are not difficult to grasp in what they're doing.

Virtually the same thing can be said about the current system of secondary stats, who knows whether Crit or Mastery is better for a Tank Warrior?

Tanks HAVE gotten more complex to play, and apparently that isn't enough for you.

You can obviously shift the relevance of active mitigation back to gearing.

Uh, not really. Conduits don't have to be balanced every time you get a new piece of gear or even a new raid tier.

Imagine a spell that is affected by conduits gets buffed and sets off the domino effect that people now suddenly play an entirely different build.
Yep, that happened.

I don't think it is a strawman. Yeah, new systems are being added every expansion.

It is one, because those systems need to be needlessly relearned, a stat that increases something that reduces your damage taken in some fashion is not complex, especially for someone choosing the tank role.

You call me obtuse yet somehow believe that those stats are complex.

But guess what? You want to add in yet ANOTHER SYSTEM.

New stats aren't a new system, they are part of an existing system.
Instead of focusing on Haste or Crit, you can now focus on tank specific stats.

In other words, it's about replacing the current, generalized system, with a role specific one.

Yeah, and it was never as good as their first spec.

Of course, neither is however the guy who plays tank as an offspec.
You could virtually say that same thing about Corruption, Legendaries or Azerite.

Actually, the challenge in Wotlk was not mitigation, but threat.

Wotlk was the expansion where they buffed threat generation, it was a non issue ever since wotlk.

That's why i said Wotlk, not BC.

If you look at the evidence, Blizzard is NOT going to go back to threat as the challenge.

I doubt this discussion is somehow related to anythign that's going to go into SL.

Quite frankly, the skittish affix sucks because it just randomnly turns something into a problem which is 99% of the time a given and there's barely any gameplay to actually counteract it other than do nothing.

Hard to balance, and confusing to players. Raidbots became mandatory this expansion because of it. Blizzard devs are allowed to learn from their mistakes. My argument still stands.

Between Conduits, Soulbinds, Covenant abilities, Legendaries and Talents...this cannot happen at all, right?

No. BAD. Stop looking at that other guy's nostalgia, because that's what it is. It was NEVER a "hallmark of your character getting stronger". You know why? Because healer power had, and continues to have, a MASSIVE IMPACT on content.

Playing Classic as a healer, it actually felt good to get to point where Mana becomes less of an issue.

The healer arms race is a real thing

It is a problem, but at the same time when your character plays virtually the same for the entirety of an expansion, you stop feeling any sort of progress.
Which is bad in a game built on character progression.

Likewise, players get used to healers at the end of an expansion not needing mana. Then, at the beginning of the expansion, they forgot that mana once again became a thing.

C'mon, this happens to you once, then you should get the drill that Healer mana is not infinite.

Mind you, the way you play dungeons now will be vastly different on the release of SL as well.

[Ielenia]

My point however was that you needed to have multiple Azerite Items in your bags to be optimal for variety of Raid bosses, M+, PvP or an offspec, thus it also caused massive bagspace issues.

That is not exactly a fair assessment to make, considering that the "set gear" system used to have that exact same issue. Remember, when people had to carry more than one set of gear set gear to be "optimal for a variety of raid bosses, pvp or offspec, causing massive bagspace issues"?

The "azerite gear" system can be improved, for example, to allow you to make different picks for each spec for your class, like how set gear bonuses changed when you switched spec.

You're discarding a whole new system that can be objectively better than set gear (and already is in several aspects) if it's improved upon, simply because it didn't have time to be improved yet.

[Kralljin]

That is not exactly a fair assessment to make, considering that the "set gear" system used to have that exact same issue.

Quoting myself:

but the bagspace argument does not work in Azerite's favor in my opinion.

Was the old system better in that regard?
Probably not, but Azerite in terms of bagspace was most certainly not a real improvement.

Especially because it turns the "multi spec" issue into an issue for virtually anyone who engaged in more than a single mode.
If you've been playing Warlock, this whole issue flew over your head because there weren't multipe tier sets for you to use, now you need multiple Azerite pieces for AoE, M+ and PvP.

[Mightytasty]

I’m not a fan of the odd numerical stats. Bring back the 1% hit 2% crit items. Bring back dodge, parry, and block tanking stats. Spirit or mp5 for healers.

We all know what will happen. Players will get bored of crit/mastery/haste on every single item REAL quick, then Blizzard will start showering gear with random proc effects.

[Ielenia]

Quoting myself:

Was the old system better in that regard?
Probably not, but Azerite in terms of bagspace was most certainly not a real improvement.

Actually.. the azerite gear is better than the old system in that regard. With set gear, before Blizzard made it so the set bonuses changed when you changed specs, you had to reserve four pieces to get two bonuses. Right now, you have to reserve three pieces to get twelve bonuses.

I think the azerite gear system has one up over the original set system, in that regard.

Especially because it turns the "multi spec" issue into an issue for virtually anyone who engaged in more than a single mode.

So did the set gear system, before it was improved on.

[Kralljin]

Actually.. the azerite gear is better than the old system in that regard. With set gear, before Blizzard made it so the set bonuses changed when you changed specs, you had to reserve four pieces to get two bonuses. Right now, you have to reserve three pieces to get twelve bonuses.

I have no idea why you keep bringing the bonuses they provide into the discussion.
I already said it, i'm not going to engage in this discussion, done this enough times, the lines are drawn here.

What i do however point out is that Azerite clogged up your bags like hell, if you wanted to engage in multiple modes (heaven forbid in possible multiple specs), then you needed like
1. Single target pieces (3)
2. AoE / M+ pieces (6)
3. PvP (9)
4. Offspec (12+X)

So did the set gear system, before it was improved on.

Huh?
Did you read what i actually wrote?

If you've been playing Warlock, this whole issue flew over your head because there weren't multipe tier sets for you to use

Not to mention that i've straight up said in this post that the old system wasn't better on that front.

[Ragashii]

No we don't need more stats on our gear. I'm tired of the item squishes already, we need a break from them. We don't need to get 100x stronger over the course of an expansion.

[Protean]

what we need is lower gear drop. make epic really epic. 2 gear max on mythic for 20 people.
we also need more bind on equip gear, but much more rare. more choice in the loot table, when it drops you know it has a lot of value, then you can either roll it or sell it.
sockets are fine. as well as minor procs such as speed or indestructible.
I hope gear is that rare on ptr.

It's been 14 years since epic was made the new normal. Time to give it a rest.

[Ielenia]

I have no idea why you keep bringing the bonuses they provide into the discussion.

Because the bonuses they provide is basically an integral part of the set system.

I already said it, i'm not going to engage in this discussion, done this enough times, the lines are drawn here.

What i do however point out is that Azerite clogged up your bags like hell, if you wanted to engage in multiple modes (heaven forbid in possible multiple specs), then you needed like
1. Single target pieces (3)
2. AoE / M+ pieces (6)
3. PvP (9)
4. Offspec (12+X)

We had some classes, like mages, who had to keep a 2-piece from the previous raid tier for "optimal performance".

But, then again, you're talking about "optimal performance", and the amount of people who strives for bestl performance for every single aspect of the game they engage in are minimal. I guarantee you, that the amount of people who micromanages their set bonuses for single-target, AoE, PvP and everything off-spec are minimal.
They're a subset of players who actively engage in every single activity in the game, who, by themselves, are a subset of the playerbase.

[Xath]

what we need is lower gear drop. make epic really epic. 2 gear max on mythic for 20 people.
we also need more bind on equip gear, but much more rare. more choice in the loot table, when it drops you know it has a lot of value, then you can either roll it or sell it.
sockets are fine. as well as minor procs such as speed or indestructible.
I hope gear is that rare on ptr.

No we need the exact opposite blizzard is losing people because there is no light at the end of tunnel. Let people make builds and have fun if you are going to push diablo lite you need diablo lite level of gear drops they didn't learn this until midway through legion and it cost them badly.

[Scrysis]

No, the difference is simply that those stats are not difficult to grasp in what they're doing.

Virtually the same thing can be said about the current system of secondary stats, who knows whether Crit or Mastery is better for a Tank Warrior?

So you're just proposing that you get rid of current secondary stats for tanks? Just have things like parry, dodge, block, etc on their gear? You'd have to add mastery to that set of stats since it's tied directly into their core mitigation. If so, you're back at square one. You're in the same boat then with the current set of secondary stats with balancing and research, with the exception that more traditional tank stats have soft and hard caps. And then, on top of it, you now have a completely segmented set of gear just for tanking. Is that the whole purpose of this? To force players to carry a second set of gear in their bags? To regear specifically as tank? To what end? What purpose would this have?

If you want to append the tank stats to current secondaries, then YES, YOU ARE MAKING IT MORE COMPLICATED.

You can obviously shift the relevance of active mitigation back to gearing.

Why would you do this? Like what is the purpose? Like how would tanks even play? Would they play just like dps, but except now they have tank gear instead of dps gear? Some people actually like playing like a tank. You'd upset the current segment of the player population that actually want to tank. They made active mitigation more of a thing when they took the focus off of generating threat. You need to give players something to DO. That is the real purpose of active mitigation. Properly managing mitigation right now is the hallmark of a good tank.

Now, if you're proposing that the current system of active mitigation is too difficult or complex for most the playerbase, then we have a completely separate argument than introducing an additional set of secondary stats tied to tanks.

Imagine a spell that is affected by conduits gets buffed and sets off the domino effect that people now suddenly play an entirely different build.
Yep, that happened.

And then you can slot in a new conduit because it's stored like a library, and they don't get destroyed when you change them. Yep, that happened.

Conduits don't have hard and soft caps that players have to independently look up and use a calculator to juggle. You look at a conduit and it says "Buff X spell by Y amount." This is super easy to understand. Blizzard buffed thunderclap? Time to slot the thunderclap conduit! You don't have to worry about "hey, I've just exceeded thunderclap's hard cap on damage, so I need to slot a different conduit." Parry, and dodge have caps.

It is one, because those systems need to be needlessly relearned, a stat that increases something that reduces your damage taken in some fashion is not complex, especially for someone choosing the tank role.

You call me obtuse yet somehow believe that those stats are complex.

You're doing it again. I'm calling the management of said stats complex, since you want to deliberately misunderstand me. MANAGEMENT OF STATS.

New stats aren't a new system, they are part of an existing system.
Instead of focusing on Haste or Crit, you can now focus on tank specific stats.

In other words, it's about replacing the current, generalized system, with a role specific one.

So effectively, you just want people to collect a second set of gear in their bags.

Of course, neither is however the guy who plays tank as an offspec.
You could virtually say that same thing about Corruption, Legendaries or Azerite.

I pity you. I really do. I've had the good fortune over these past years to play with players who were very good in more than one role. Limiting and segmenting gear is like putting a huge handicap on these players.

Wotlk was the expansion where they buffed threat generation, it was a non issue ever since wotlk.

That's why i said Wotlk, not BC.

Hahahaha. No. Threat was an active part of gameplay for several expansions afterwards, otherwise I wouldn't have had so much fun watching idiot dps get splatted. I want to say that it was MoP where threat actually became trivialized.

I doubt this discussion is somehow related to anythign that's going to go into SL.

Quite frankly, the skittish affix sucks because it just randomnly turns something into a problem which is 99% of the time a given and there's barely any gameplay to actually counteract it other than do nothing.

No, because your proposal isn't going to be in Shadowlands. This is directly tied to your proposal. For tank active abilities, Blizzard has traditionally balanced threat and mitigation. You're proposing to reduce the impact of mitigation, which would generally shift the gameplay more towards threat . . . if Blizzard hadn't decided that they didn't want to make threat a thing any more.

Between Conduits, Soulbinds, Covenant abilities, Legendaries and Talents...this cannot happen at all, right?

Deliberately misunderstanding me again. Conduits, soulbinds, covenant abilities, and talents are not gear. I'm pointing out issues with gear. Non-gear systems are . . . non-disposable. They'll persist throughout the expansion in the same form, and Blizzard tweaks these systems up until the first Mythic raid, after which these systems will typically not be touched (for the most part). This contrasts wildly with gear. What you're proposing is on gear. That chestpiece is going to be replaced the moment you get a higher ilevel one. That could be 5 min after you get the first one, or two weeks. It's not going to last very long. It's also where you're going to see a lot of variance. Maybe four different dungeons have a chestpiece along with the raids. Even replacing the same item can pose an issue. If you upgrade a normal chest with a heroic one, you might have a substantially greater amount of your tanking secondary stat. Well, now you have to check and see if that now puts you over cap, and rearrange all the rest of your gear to deal with it.

Playing Classic as a healer, it actually felt good to get to point where Mana becomes less of an issue.

It is a problem, but at the same time when your character plays virtually the same for the entirety of an expansion, you stop feeling any sort of progress.
Which is bad in a game built on character progression.

Go back to playing Classic. I'm going to refrain from being cruel here, but classic is very different than retail. I've been there, done that, not interested in it any more. If you like classic, that's great! Go, enjoy! But retail is a very different beast than classic. The gear scale is very, very small in classic. The fights are much simpler and easier. Everything is slower and softer. You're not going to see the arms-race issues in Classic. They didn't really start showing up until maybe Cata. They definitely were present in WoD.

You still get a sense of character progression on retail, but it's subtle. I mean, if you're that into it, you can always just enable floating combat text to show you bigger numbers. You notice that filling health bars gets a little easier. But mana regen? If the cost of getting increased mana regen is a fight where dps instantly die to everything, and tanks can't have any latency or they get flattened, I'll leave it. The cost at that point is too damn high.

C'mon, this happens to you once, then you should get the drill that Healer mana is not infinite.

Mind you, the way you play dungeons now will be vastly different on the release of SL as well.

I mean, you'd think this, but in my 15 years of experience with this game, that's not what happens. Hell, you'd think that people would figure out that fire is bad, but they still haven't gotten that memo either. You have to remember that each expansion has typically a 2 year lifespan, and most people don't play a healer. They aren't going to remember this kind of thing because it doesn't directly effect them.


Seriously though, what problem are you trying to solve by dividing up gear the way that is proposed?

[Speedlance]

With all the system already in place in SL I think we need to relax on the complexity or we will only have 100 people left in wow because the rest didn't want to go to school for 6 years to understand how to gear their character.

[razorpax]

I much prefer the "Azerite Armor" system that allows me to pick and choose which bonuses each individual piece of armor is going to give me, instead of the fixed bonuses that "lock" that piece of armor to my character, making me unable to replace it otherwise I lose the set bonus.

when one trait is 3k dps and another is 30k dps theres no choice