[SPOILER]Return of Garrosh?

[Jastall]

To clarify, like I said I don't think that a Garrosh arc with these characters is likely, only that if they wanted to, they'd have ample ways to do it. I think the likeliest options in order are him not coming up again except a cameo > him showing up to get iced by Denathrius in the mythic raid > Him showing up to be a tool for Thrall's development > Him being redeemed > Him showing up with his WoD characterization and this not being cast as a bad thing.

Thrall's return to playing any role to the Horde is Saurfang pressuring him. But Thrall is a bit player, he defers to Saurfang - it's Saurfang who gives Thrall the pep talk at the Gates. At the end of that, Thrall isn't a shaman, he isn't a leader either. He's your average dude. I don't think that's likely to stay the case given how much Blizzard love the character, which is why I think it's inevitable he'll get a focus arc where he gets at least his WC3 powers back. Most likely a pep talk from mum - what I'm telling you is that Garrosh, being the guy he lost those powers over and he went into exile over in the first place, is the actual party he should overcome. It could be him simply deciding that actually he was right to off him the way he did and that it really was Garrosh's destiny, gaining back his confidence, which I think is more likely. Or it could be an engagement between the two's position, hopefully with some fighting cause this is Warcraft after all.

By engagement I don't mean development for Garrosh himself - his story is basically done. Him agreeing with Thrall at this point would just diminish his character and be a retread of what they've got in store for Kael besides. More Thrall engaging with Garrosh's position. Yes, he put Garrosh in that spot, yes, Garrosh had a constituency and Thrall was preoccupied with his own issues. But Garrosh was the one who chose to take the route he did and while Thrall made tons of mistakes, he can't let that drag him down, Garrosh is dead, he's alive and it's time he actually went and did things for the Horde again. To fix his errors instead of blaming it on others and leaving it at that or hiding from them as he did in Nagrand. This I think is if they went that route at all, the resolution with the highest chance of happening. I'd have a laugh and a half if Thrall went "Oh yeah, I fucked up, you were right about most things" but that is never going to happen. On the other hand, Thrall going from "it's all your fault, i did nothing wrong" to "i'm sorry i did anything, i'll hide" to "i'll just be some scrub and follow others" to "i fucked up but i have to do better and lead" is a clear throughline.

Bring back Warchief Thrall? I don't have an issue with it, but that seems a bit too much like a reset button (not that Blizz is above such a thing, I'll grant anyone that) and doesn't jive with the Council they've established and developed with a surprisingly not-inconsiderate amount of effort so far. Thrall is a directionless character so far, of course, but I don't think that direction is a Vanilla factory default reset. Then again I didn't in a million years think Garrosh would even show up at all in Shadowlands considering the inevitable questions about him dying in another reality altogether and the massive amount of baggage the character has that doesn't relate to the main plot of the expansion at all.

I believe what will happen is they'll make Thrall Saurfang lite- big Orc warrior that smashes things but feels bad about it when he smashes things that players empathize with. He'll chat with his mom about love, smashing and the pleasures thereof, regain some confidence in himself, and play a bigger part in the Horde's future, whenever that future is more Council shenanigans or yet another Evil Warchief plot when Blizzard needs the faction war as more filler. Garrosh will be a bit character because the chosen star for the Venthyr is obviously good old Kael'thas who has no less than two fully realized models, a role in the Campaign, and a raid boss to his name while Garrosh has, like, two pictures in an animated short.

But! I'll concede that unlike BfA, I have no idea where Shadowland's story is going (besides the inevitable victory of the good guys over the Jailer, of course) so I might be completely wrong. All we have is speculation at this point, but to me it seems so far the fun kind of speculation, more "I wonder what they'll do with X" than BfA's "I wonder how they will fuck this plot point/character up". It's kind of refreshing.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

I swear. If it's a full-on thing that only happens in mythic..like Cho'gall and Highmaul.. I won't be happy.

[Ardenaso]

So, no reason.

the Darkspears were attempted genocide twice in just Warcraft 3 alone

[Super Dickmann]

Bring back Warchief Thrall? I don't have an issue with it, but that seems a bit too much like a reset button (not that Blizz is above such a thing, I'll grant anyone that) and doesn't jive with the Council they've established and developed with a surprisingly not-inconsiderate amount of effort so far. Thrall is a directionless character so far, of course, but I don't think that direction is a Vanilla factory default reset. Then again I didn't in a million years think Garrosh would even show up at all in Shadowlands considering the inevitable questions about him dying in another reality altogether and the massive amount of baggage the character has that doesn't relate to the main plot of the expansion at all.

I believe what will happen is they'll make Thrall Saurfang lite- big Orc warrior that smashes things but feels bad about it when he smashes things that players empathize with. He'll chat with his mom about love, smashing and the pleasures thereof, regain some confidence in himself, and play a bigger part in the Horde's future, whenever that future is more Council shenanigans or yet another Evil Warchief plot when Blizzard needs the faction war as more filler. Garrosh will be a bit character because the chosen star for the Venthyr is obviously good old Kael'thas who has no less than two fully realized models, a role in the Campaign, and a raid boss to his name while Garrosh has, like, two pictures in an animated short.

But! I'll concede that unlike BfA, I have no idea where Shadowland's story is going (besides the inevitable victory of the good guys over the Jailer, of course) so I might be completely wrong. All we have is speculation at this point, but to me it seems so far the fun kind of speculation, more "I wonder what they'll do with X" than BfA's "I wonder how they will fuck this plot point/character up". It's kind of refreshing.

Considering Jaina's storyline had her appear in every single patch with a cinematic to go with her or several only to have it quickly reveal itself to be a way to return her to factory settings, I don't think it's beyond the pale for them to do the same to Thrall. Especially given the praise Jaina got and how they've been trying and failing to rehabilitate Thrall for years. In any case while I'm 100% sure they'll eventually bring back the Warchief, what with it being both iconic and easier to write for, I don't think it'll be Thrall. Rather, if Thrall gets any arc, I don't think it's beyond the pale for him to regain some of his confidence and his shamanism. It's ridiculous that the Horde has no shamans of note.

He'll definitely have a rote conversation with his mom about what's worth fighting for, how honor is good, how zombies are ugly but they have honor and so forth, but I don't think it'll end there. Precisely because Kael is a much more emphasized figure if Garrosh has any role in this then it'll be in Thrall's story because of the background involved and if Thrall changes it'll be in the direction of his most popular incarnation, that being him as Warchief. Now I find that Thrall to have bee a narrative pox, but I also find WC3 Jaina to be dull as dishwater and a storyline about nothing but eliminating all development for Jaina except power level to bring her there is among the few story aspects of BFA that get a lot of praise. Doing the same for Thrall seems like a no-brainer. Especially since Garrosh makes for an easy Daelin stand-in - much like how Jaina flirts with the idea that Daelin was right only to have everyone agree with her that she was a good girl to have Thrall off him Thrall can flirt with the idea that Garrosh had a point only to reject it and decide that the Council is what it's all about.

The only reason I'm invested in this at all is because the Shadows Rising version of Thrall was the only time in a very long time where Thrall was actually interesting and had the vibe of this experienced warrior who knows when to bring the hammer down that people attribute to his WC3 and Vanilla/TBC incarnation.

[Venziir]

I swear. If it's a full-on thing that only happens in mythic..like Cho'gall and Highmaul.. I won't be happy.

It kinda seems it might be.

[baskev]

You clearly do all of the above incredibly poorly as you still don’t know the basics of the lore.

None of these lands are viable options when you need the resources quickly and you don’t have operations set up in them or they need to be teramormed.

Wrong this happens right after the cataclysm before garrosh has gone any thing and when your at war you don’t get to hide behind shit like “I was planning to attack but I didn’t do it yet”.

you must know this isn’t a defence right? Them attacking before the cataclysm proves theramore was making it self a threat to the horde because garrosh had done any thing at all.

Garrosh didn’t attack any city before they were in all out war.

the quest is in game right now vol’jin and his trolls were kicked out of org for threatening garrosh’S life around the start of cata before he had actually done any thing.

You don’t know the lore every point you try and make proves they further.


A pre wrath pre battle for under city meeting isn't relevant as varian declares war after that and then attacks before the cataclysm

From your own link.


This isn’t the horde breaking any treaty its varian blaming them based automatically when there were TH running around trying to start the war. varian then launch’s attacks out of theramore before the cataclysm and garrosh only responds after it attacking ashenvale and other places which leads into him attacking theramore at the end of cata when it has been a staging ground to attack org and mulgore from the start of it.

So again you don’t even know the basics of the lore and are linking things that prove it again and again.

Says the person who goes on and ignore's the most credible sources of lore :S
So instead of not causing war and take a bit longer to get food, its okay to start a war.
And btw...alliance in westfall also had this problem. You do not see us starting a war or killing all of mulgore for some beef.

Planning to attack and attacking are 2 different things. Plans you do not need to act on. These are idea's. Excecuting them is a other ball game.

Theramore was a city.

But after that voljín try to play nice several times. He event went on a mission his warchief gave, but was a plan to kill. Which he barely survived.

And i do know the lore. but i linked you the proof also. :P


And a pre wrath proofs that varian wants to make peace. something you said he would not. And the horde broke it first .

And i do know basics of the lore and context to. After that piece of text you linked , it says varian sends a messenger to thrall to get the full story.

[Okacz]

But after that voljín try to play nice several times. He event went on a mission his warchief gave, but was a plan to kill. Which he barely survived.

This happened after he showed up uninvited to Garroshes offensive on Pandaria. Which he decided to inaugurate by threatening Garrosh YET AGAIN. This guy basically printed a "Threat to the leader, assassinate at will" note and glued it to his back. When exactly did he try to play nice?

[baskev]

this don't answer neither refute what i said at all, other lands are far and not rpatical.

Yes not everything is simple. Garrosh took the easy way out. westfall also had food problems. Did you see us attack horde lands willy nilly for them?
We need more homes for all the night elves and gilnean people we have. Should we take silvermoon now. we could also use that land for farming more.

right, and? i even said that later

Because you act like he was there on a peace mission. And he had not time and it was so difficult to get those other lands. But yet he did have enough time to conqecer them. Why not start with those and then not move on to ashenvale?

thats a lie cause theramore served as abse for the alliance even before Garrosh was warchief, and the attack on honor's stand one dya prior to cataclysm no one knew Garrosh plans at ll, because he just became a temproary warchief

A base for the alliance member called jaina proudemore . who was a pro orc person pre theramore attack. And again the horde also attacked the alliance.

no, it wasn't, ashenvale was attacked in cata, in wtlk and prior the night elves and the orcs what a trade pact, that night elves boke it after Wrathgate.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ashenvale#World_of_Warcraft

And he did that right after cata...did we attack you right after cata in several places to feed expenansion drift. Pre cata 1 attack.

i never said that, you are doing a strawman

Nope i am not. You do act like the horde never does anything wrong. Everytime i come with proof you act like: but this or that.

no it didn't, guil'neas was early cataclysm, theramore bomb was prior mop

my mistake...theramore happend BETWEEN cata and mop.

are you nuts? the twilight hammer attacked then, the horde didn't atack no one first lmao

First that attack. After that they worked at the wrathgate and a other horde filled faction ( part of the forsaken) attacked.....how does that look do you think? And if 2 groups that have close ties/made out of horde races attack you twice. You might think less of the desire of peace.

they didn't, all trough vanila and wtlk the horde was reactionary with alliance attacking and invading their lands, humans of northold watcha nd dwarves in the barrens.

The dwarves bombed and killed an entire tauren clan

Nope, because they warned that clan to leave.

again, check your sources

did

Saurfang son died at wrathgate not in undercity

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Varian_Wry..._the_Undercity

Yes, and where in my sentence did i say that it happend else where. I said they attacked the undercity to get at the bad forsaken.
The forsaken that attack and killed people.
It does not say anything about saurfang jr being at undercity.

Varian declare war against the horde

Yes after the attack on night elves. The hostile attitude of garrosh in dalaran and 1 of the horde factions in part attack a alliance army. ( also horde present). If mexico was attack by far right people from america, and the some kkk members. Should they not be mad at the USA?

there was no total open war going on yet, they entered a truce to fight the Lich king, and varian broke it declaring open war

Again after some horde alligned sub factions attacked alliance.

again, wrong

again wrong see above

????????????????????
honor's stnd was alliance breaking the truce they had, literally before Garrosh did anything

https://www.engadget.com/2011-05-01-...n-barrens.html

- - - Updated - - -

This happened after he showed up uninvited to Garroshes offensive on Pandaria. Which he decided to inaugurate by threatening Garrosh YET AGAIN. This guy basically printed a "Threat to the leader, assassinate at will" note and glued it to his back. When exactly did he try to play nice?

third garrosh defender.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#...e_to_Cataclysm Garrosh wong true posioning ( not by garrosh hand)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#Cataclysm < does not like the war like behavior leaves ogrimmar. And threatens him to kill him. You know a thing garrosh does on a daily basis.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#...:_Tides_of_War < he gave his advice pre the attack on theramore. he even followed him in battle several times/fought battles for him.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Says the person who goes on and ignore's the most credible sources of lore :S

the sources you link prove you wong...

So instead of not causing war and take a bit longer to get food, its okay to start a war.

varian started the war not garrosh

And btw...alliance in westfall also had this problem. You do not see us starting a war or killing all of mulgore for some beef.

wastfall had a food shortage because they were shipping it all to stormwind to feed the troops not because they couldn't grow food there.

Planning to attack and attacking are 2 different things. Plans you do not need to act on. These are idea's. Excecuting them is a other ball game.

and the difference doesn't matter when you in open war and your enemy is already launching attacks on you on multiple fronts.

Theramore was a city.

and not attacked till the end of cata when they were already at open war because of varian.

But after that voljín try to play nice several times. He event went on a mission his warchief gave, but was a plan to kill. Which he barely survived.

Incorrect, vol'jin threatens his life as a first recourse before garrosh had done any thing at all.

And i do know the lore. but i linked you the proof also. :P

again your proof proves you wrong.

And a pre wrath proofs that varian wants to make peace. something you said he would not. And the horde broke it first .

I didn't say he wouldn't make peace i said he wouldn't work with garrosh at all which is excatly the case, and again the horde didn't break the peace varian did first at the battle for undercity then again attacking before the catacystlm.

And i do know basics of the lore and context to. After that piece of text you linked , it says varian sends a messenger to thrall to get the full story.

a story he then doesn't believe which is followed by him starting the war with the horde attacking on multiple fronts.

[Okacz]

third garrosh defender.

They always come in threes, am I right.

Your first two don't really add up, in first case he noticed something that wasn't meant to be hidden, that Garroshes blade was poisoned. In second, I mean, this is exactly the point here? He didn't play nice, he straight up refused to cooperate and threatened to kill his Warchief. I'd love to know a society where something like this flies.

You are right in the third case. During the Theramore assault Vol'Jin did play along.

[LemonDemonGirl]

It kinda seems it might be.

If it is, I hope Garrosh breaks free and starts sucking HIS Anima instead

[Claymore]

Honestly I would *LOVE* to see them do something more with Garrosh's character. Unlike Thrall's mom, Garrosh actually played a truly meaningful role in the overarching story of Warcraft, and it would be interesting to see where things go with him. And yeah, having him interact with Thrall could be crazy interesting.

Even if Garrosh hasn't been "broken" yet, there's no doubt the experience in Shadowlands could have humbled him, and it would be really cool seeing a bit of closure to his storyline.

Or hell, assuming there exists some way to bridge the gap between the living and afterlife realms, it might be kind of cool to see Garrosh return to the fold somehow, perhaps to lead the Mag'har, but also humbled enough to accept that his role is to serve the Horde, not to rule.

Honestly, between Arthas, Kael'thas, and Garrosh, Blizzard has the opportunity to rectify some of their greatest mistakes, or at the VERY least offer a bit more closure to those characters' storylines. Seeing Garrosh was the first time, since hearing the return of 2hand Frost, that I've actually felt a bit of excitement for this expansion. I hope they do something exciting with this potential, because they've definitely set the stage in a very interesting way.

[Syegfryed]

Yes not everything is simple. Garrosh took the easy way out. westfall also had food problems. Did you see us attack horde lands willy nilly for them?

there is no horde there to be attacked son, and you think they would not if it was? they would for sure.

he took the right and simple route hen your people is starving by famine, blaime varian who didn't the same

We need more homes for all the night elves and gilnean people we have. Should we take silvermoon now. we could also use that land for farming more.

You could try, but that would be dumb in a strateical standpoint since they are far way and the city is compltely protected

Because you act like he was there on a peace mission.

no i didn't, you are reading too much

And he had not time and it was so difficult to get those other lands. But yet he did have enough time to conqecer them. Why not start with those and then not move on to ashenvale?

because orgrimmar was facing severe problems of drought and famine and ashenvale was the only place he could take resources sustainable because the warsong alrady had a base there

A base for the alliance member called jaina proudemore . who was a pro orc person pre theramore attack. And again the horde also attacked the alliance.

it means jack shit that he was "pro-orc person" she still let her city be an alliance base to attack the horde. the horde attack only after the alliance attacks

And he did that right after cata...did we attack you right after cata in several places to feed expenansion drift. Pre cata 1 attack

.

the alliance was attacking the horde since vanilla my dude, they attacked heavily on WtLK and prior Cataclysm, the horde only fought back in he ctaclysm expansion

the attack on ashenvale happened after the night elves attacks, the dwarves attacks on the barrens and after the attacks of northwatch hold

Nope i am not. You do act like the horde never does anything wrong. Everytime i come with proof you act like: but this or that.

again, you are making up things, i never acted like that, and your proofs are either wrong or all over the place, you keep saying theramore was before cataclysm by example

my mistake...theramore happend BETWEEN cata and mop.

it was after cata, there was the evvent and the book

First that attack.

it was the twilight hammer not the horde

After that they worked at the wrathgate and a other horde filled faction ( part of the forsaken) attacked.....how does that look do you think? And if 2 groups that have close ties/made out of horde races attack you twice. You might think less of the desire of peace.

thats bullshit, just because two evil faction, who happen to have elf races attacked the alliance, means the horde desire less for peace? ROFL

mind you, the twilight hammer had alliance races, and they attacked the horde in theramore.

Nope, because they warned that clan to leave.

Again, false, they didn't warned shit, and they have no fucking word to say because those are not dwarven lands those are TAUREN LANDS, and th dwarvs firebombing everyone, even with the chieftain trying to talk and make peace with then, so no, go check your facts

did

wrong

Yes after the attack on night elves.

lies, lies and lies, the attack on night elves was by the twilight hammer prior to cataclysm, and the horde only invaded ashenvale in the expansion, the war was decleared by varian in undercity in wrath of the lich king

youa re completely confused about dates dude, check your sources

The hostile attitude of garrosh in dalaran and 1 of the horde factions in part attack a alliance army. ( also horde present).

again, nothing you said make any sense

If mexico was attack by far right people from america, and the some kkk members. Should they not be mad at the USA?

bad comparison, especially when the horde itslf dealt with the problem of the rebel forsaken, plus, varian didn't ttacked undercity later, he attacked durotar and the orcs, again, bullshit

Again after some horde alligned sub factions attacked alliance.

no, bullshit, twilight hammer is not horde aligned sub faction.

again wrong see above

you are stll wrong, Varian declared the war, no amter how you want to sugarcoat that

https://www.engadget.com/2011-05-01-...n-barrens.html

ah yes, engadget argue very canon

third garrosh defender.


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#...e_to_Cataclysm Garrosh wong true posioning ( not by garrosh hand)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#Cataclysm < does not like the war like behavior leaves ogrimmar. And threatens him to kill him. You know a thing garrosh does on a daily basis.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vol%27jin#...:_Tides_of_War < he gave his advice pre the attack on theramore. he even followed him in battle several times/fought battles for him

you don't even know what you are trying to answer anymore, lmao

[Jastall]

Considering Jaina's storyline had her appear in every single patch with a cinematic to go with her or several only to have it quickly reveal itself to be a way to return her to factory settings, I don't think it's beyond the pale for them to do the same to Thrall. Especially given the praise Jaina got and how they've been trying and failing to rehabilitate Thrall for years. In any case while I'm 100% sure they'll eventually bring back the Warchief, what with it being both iconic and easier to write for, I don't think it'll be Thrall. Rather, if Thrall gets any arc, I don't think it's beyond the pale for him to regain some of his confidence and his shamanism. It's ridiculous that the Horde has no shamans of note.

He'll definitely have a rote conversation with his mom about what's worth fighting for, how honor is good, how zombies are ugly but they have honor and so forth, but I don't think it'll end there. Precisely because Kael is a much more emphasized figure if Garrosh has any role in this then it'll be in Thrall's story because of the background involved and if Thrall changes it'll be in the direction of his most popular incarnation, that being him as Warchief. Now I find that Thrall to have bee a narrative pox, but I also find WC3 Jaina to be dull as dishwater and a storyline about nothing but eliminating all development for Jaina except power level to bring her there is among the few story aspects of BFA that get a lot of praise. Doing the same for Thrall seems like a no-brainer. Especially since Garrosh makes for an easy Daelin stand-in - much like how Jaina flirts with the idea that Daelin was right only to have everyone agree with her that she was a good girl to have Thrall off him Thrall can flirt with the idea that Garrosh had a point only to reject it and decide that the Council is what it's all about.

The only reason I'm invested in this at all is because the Shadows Rising version of Thrall was the only time in a very long time where Thrall was actually interesting and had the vibe of this experienced warrior who knows when to bring the hammer down that people attribute to his WC3 and Vanilla/TBC incarnation.

Yes, but Jaina was a focus of the expansion from 8.0 to 8.2. Thrall is... just there, I believe you rescue him from the Maw during the leveling process and then he does nothing. Garrosh doesn't even appear in 9.0 except maybe as Denathrius's Mythic-only stooge where he may get either freed or killed off for reals. Now, perhaps their reunion will be patch content, who knows, but I'd think if Thrall was going to be a major player and get story development they'd push it a bit earlier than that, especially since the going-ons in Revendreth are already the focus of the first batch of endgame content and the only returning figure there is Kael'thas.

Shadowlands already has so much story ground to cover in between all 4 Covenants and their associated new characters, major returners like Uther and Kael, the Maw and the Jailer, the Arbiter, Sylvanas, Helya, Kel'thuzad, Bolvar and so on and so forth that at most the roles of Thrall or Garrosh will be minor I think. Anduin has an encrypted model and probably more of a part to play than most faction/racial leaders (because of course) but I doubt there will be much room left for the characters that aren't intrinsically tied to the main plotline. BfA already suffered greatly from a lack of focus, I don't want Shadowlands to also be spread all over the damn place.

[tommyhil622]

Snip

Let's say if they actually bring Garrosh in some capacity in the shadow lands and somehow he reforms and decides to help to try to bring down the Jailer? Would you like to see something like that? not a redemptive story per say but just some sort of turn where he does something that can be almost selfless and elevate his character a bit?

[Feanoro]

Garrosh fans stirred up and preaching his return alongside their usual rhetoric that he did nothing wrong, another strike against SL.

[Syegfryed]

Let's say if they actually bring Garrosh in some capacity in the shadow lands and somehow he reforms and decides to help to try to bring down the Jailer? Would you like to see something like that? not a redemptive story per say but just some sort of turn where he does something that can be almost selfless and elevate his character a bit?

maybe, the problem is i don't trust blizzard capability of delivering something good, not even something related to what you said.

i Rather him just stay "untouched", unmentioned, like not appearing at all, put him in one of those thousands of afterlives that we will not interact.

Knowing then, they will do some shit to show how toxic male he is, to undermine him more, like is rly necessary

[tommyhil622]

maybe, the problem is i don't trust blizzard capability of delivering something good, not even something related to what you said.

i Rather him just stay "untouched", unmentioned, like not appearing at all, put him in one of those thousands of afterlives that we will not interact.

Knowing then, they will do some shit to show how toxic male he is, to undermine him more, like is rly necessary

I hear ya if they going to do something silly best to leave him out the story. Still wondering if they'll do something because of the afterlives clip. But then again it he may have been included there as an easter egg. So far no real sign of him at all in the beta.

[bagina]

I hear ya if they going to do something silly best to leave him out the story. Still wondering if they'll do something because of the afterlives clip. But then again it he may have been included there as an easter egg. So far no real sign of him at all in the beta.

I want him to join forces with Sylvanas. Not because it makes sense but because it would be cool in a "I'm putting together a team" kinda way.

[Powerogue]

I want him to join forces with Sylvanas. Not because it makes sense but because it would be cool in a "I'm putting together a team" kinda way.

I don't know about that but it would be cool to have some sort of callback to his line in Silverpine. Not the "bitch" one but riiiiight after. Very, very ironic.