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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    They are small mistakes that require even smaller skills to completely avoid. So who's worse?
    Saying things like "lol you suck" is not flipping out. I mentioned this enough already, there's a giant difference in making a small comment about someone's mistake and actually going full retard with the caps lock insults, that's what flipping out is and that's not at all what I've been talking about in any of my posts, and very clearly too.

    You're just twisting the narrative because you have nothing to offer to the argument and still seek a win where there's nothing to be won.
    You are worse, for flipping out over such a small mistake, Including drawing maps and diagrams (seriously havnt laughed so hard at someone for a while).

  2. #182
    Banned CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You are worse, for flipping out over such a small mistake, Including drawing maps and diagrams (seriously havnt laughed so hard at someone for a while).
    I googled the map in less time it took you to make this irrelevant and pathetic struggle of a post, that's the real hilarious part.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    They are small mistakes that require even smaller skills to completely avoid. So who's worse?
    Saying things like "lol you suck" is not flipping out. I mentioned this enough already, there's a giant difference in making a small comment about someone's mistake and actually going full retard with the caps lock insults, that's what flipping out is and that's not at all what I've been talking about in any of my posts, and very clearly too.

    You're just twisting the narrative because you have nothing to offer to the argument and still seek a win where there's nothing to be won.
    You reckon "lol you suck" is not flipping out? Guess what happens in real life when somebody makes a tiny irrelevant mistake, or even worse several tiny mistakes? Nothing. Nobody says a thing. If that behaviour continues somebody might talk to the person and show them how to do the thing correctly. I can guarantee that nobody is going to yell "lol you suck" in their face.
    You're flipping out over a computer game.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I think toxicity has a lot to do with the expectations we have from the game. We generally expect fluidity, perfect play, the gear we want etc. Our expectation when logging in is unjustifiably high we expect to enter the game and start conquering.

    Then reality strikes: Long queues, bad pulls, bad play, loot didn't drop, co-player disconnected, mic stopped working, all sorts. As reality kicks in and expectations are ruined people are pissed off to a smaller or larger extent.
    I personally think the society we live has encouraged, or rather made it worse. Many things these days are relatively easy to acquire without too much effort. People has gradually become more impatient as a whole. Expectation from others are higher. We expects people to serve our needs.

    One thing I have noticed is the style of the media has changed. It has become more coarser, direct, rude even. Look at Trump and his language. He does not care. Compared today TV with those back in the 70s or 80s. Being rude and offensive on TV has become entertainment.

    I wonder if these are translated to peoples live. People say TV has a major influence on people. I wonder if some people has numb. See it enough and people acclimatise to it.

  5. #185
    Timers in mythic + are one thing. Now obviously getting rid of timers won't make the toxicity go away but I think anytime you put "timers + pug" you are just asking for toxicity. I mean even in vanilla there was always a kind of "go go mentality" but timers just exacerbates it to a whole new level.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisque View Post
    Timers in mythic + are one thing. Now obviously getting rid of timers won't make the toxicity go away but I think anytime you put "timers + pug" you are just asking for toxicity. I mean even in vanilla there was always a kind of "go go mentality" but timers just exacerbates it to a whole new level.
    I agree. When M+ was announced, i had a very different image in my head - slow methodical clearing of very challenging dungeons, requiring concise and well communicated CC, and even Re-CC of mobs in high keys. I pictured bosses being very challenging and long, forcing us to focus on mechanics to endure the 3-5 minute boss fights in higher keys.

    What we got was obviously very different, and yes, i personally was very disappointed. However, many people love the current format of GOGOGO aoe everything down and rush through the dungeon ASAP, so im not saying its WRONG, just that it is not what i hoped for. Sadly, i think the days of really challenging "traditional" dungeons are gone now, but hey, gotta keep moving forward.

    I also agree that the time pressure adds exactly that, an additional pressure on players, and as you said, add in the pug factor and it is always going to result in some unsavory moments.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You are worse, for flipping out over such a small mistake, Including drawing maps and diagrams (seriously havnt laughed so hard at someone for a while).
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    Last edited by Roanda; 2020-09-21 at 10:18 PM.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    This entire post is 1 big contradiction - stop being so toxic. Derailing threads is against the rules. Personal attacks are against the rules. For your record, discussing moderation is also against the rules. The big contradiction is you incorrectly claim i break these rules, and yet....i'm "within the forum rules". So which is it? Am i breaking the rules, or just trying to have a discussion with you but you are so toxic you flip out and get yourself banned?

    In case there was any doubt, you literally begged to be banned - you created a thread mocking the moderation team, calling them names, and swearing at everyone - pretty sure you are the one who flipped out, and VERY sure your behavior was the very definition of toxic.

    You should also take note that i did not quote YOU, i was having a discussion with someone different, and you interjected and tried to play the victim.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2020-09-21 at 10:25 PM.

  9. #189
    The lowest type of toxic scum are the ones in power and the ones who get away with murder.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    I am pretty sure he was replying to a different poster.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Pohut View Post
    I am pretty sure he was replying to a different poster.
    Yeah, not sure what shes on about to be honest. The whole "its not me its everyone else" mentality is a common once among toxic people - just look at this thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    The lowest type of toxic scum are the ones in power and the ones who get away with murder.
    Care to elaborate on who you are referencing here?

  12. #192
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Toxicity is unfortunately just inevitable when it comes to online interactions. Online communication is inherently dehumanizing, which makes it difficult to empathize. On top of all the other issues and baggage we carry into every interaction, the internet strips inflection, body language, facial expressions, etc. It makes it easy to be shitty to other people. Plain and simple.

    Then add anything remotely competitive on top of that and you've got a recipe for guaranteed hurt feelings.


    After all these years, I find the best way to deal with it is to just avoid it as much as possible, and try to be kind yourself. If you get frustrated, take a break because it's probably not worth it. Try and find other outlets that don't result in toxicity.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    Calm down buddy. There is no one out to get you. Just stop being toxic. I guess this is the same as in WoW. When people don't know who you are people get a toxic attitude and think it is OK to act like that.

    I remember a sharp upturn in toxicity when LFD came out in WotLK. That could be me misremembering but I think now there's less toxicity in RETAIL. I went back to a WotLK private server last year and the levels were off the chart. Maybe WoWs reputation came from the WotLK players that left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  14. #194
    Okay, so here's the thing.

    Nobody has the obligation to defend anybody.
    You are not responsible for others to feel safe or protected.
    People keep saying that "you wouldn't act like this in real life" and they are totally right, most people wouldn't.
    But this isn't real life, nobody has to be nice to you if you clearly fuck up. This argument makes no sense, "but its just a game", yes it is so git gud or die trying. Nobody will die or lose their job irl for getting called a noob for fucking up.

    Now with that out of the way.

    As I read the last 4 pages here everyone seems to have a different definition of what "toxic" means. So I'm just not even gonna bother with that.

    The core issue here is acceptable level of calling out people for their fuck up differ between certain skill levels.
    In higher keys where one major fuck up can ruin an entire 30-40 min run in itself it is much much more common for people to call names. To be fair, these people are usually the people who can actually take it, maybe even answer back and then just go on with their day as normal.

    In lower keys where numerous fuck ups are allowed people tend to get more defensive and agitated by being called out. These people are simply more insecure about their gameplay and being called out is somehow a strike at their own personal self in their eyes.

    The obvious difference between the two is that while the more experienced players learn from these scenarios, the less experienced ones think that the other guy was just "toxic" and then keep doing the same thing they were called out for.

    I think everybody should realize that they are all individuals responsible for their own actions. You don't have to defend others, they can defend themselves. This is not the street where you get beaten up. Everyone is equal so everyone should hold everyone else to an equal standard in-game.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    Most people just want to be "bad" for fun out of it.
    This^^
    Normaly i'm having fun and satisfaction when i do good thing, helping others, playing by rule....
    But i lol and rolf hard watching epic fail videos, breaking stuff, doing stupid things, scream and shouts for no reason if not for simple fun
    most of my funniest wow memory are both some positive and succesfull goals like killing boss with guildmate and some bad behevior bullshit like making my raidleader mad cause i barrage/misdirection on him while trashcleaning making rolf the entire raid

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarnage86 View Post
    This^^
    Normaly i'm having fun and satisfaction when i do good thing, helping others, playing by rule....
    But i lol and rolf hard watching epic fail videos, breaking stuff, doing stupid things, scream and shouts for no reason if not for simple fun
    most of my funniest wow memory are both some positive and succesfull goals like killing boss with guildmate and some bad behevior bullshit like making my raidleader mad cause i barrage/misdirection on him while trashcleaning making rolf the entire raid
    I definitely think there is room for a chuckle and some bants in a raid, even at the RL expense. I would only say it should match the tone of the raid overall. If its clearly a very serious progression group and the chatter is low and everyone is just focused on getting the job done, MDing the RL to kill him might get a pretty negative reaction. But if its an alt clear or just a heroic/normal fun run, that kind of stuff can be a bloody good laugh. The swapblaster is our favorite weapon, and can lead to some bloody funny moments.

    Nothing toxic about that. An example of someone taking things way too far and being pretty toxic happened not too long ago. Clearing heroic and 2 people died to the fire on first boss - one got distracted and ran the wrong way - and a priest ran out to grip him to safety and they both died. It was always going to be a kill, and everyone just kind of laughed and they both accepted responsibility and everything was fine.

    EXCEPT for a hunter who messaged me straight after the boss, saying i should "kick the useless pricks that died to fire". I didnt reply, so he messaged most of my guildies in the group saying the same thing. Including "Your RL is useless, can you take over?". He then moved to raid chat abusing and harassing the people who made a simple, but honest mistake. I politely suggested he leave it alone, everyone makes mistakes, its not progression, its just a fun clear. He then PMd the ppl involved saying "Just leave, no one wants you here, you clearly shouldnt be here".

    We decided to just leave it, so long as he stfu we would keep going. Then we got to MAUT. Guess who died to the very first annihilation? He had every excuse under the sun, and in all fairness, copped a fair bit of ribbing from the other players. He said "i bet youll just kick me now, even though im 4th on dps". I replied, "yeah, 4th on dps, and 17th on damage done - stay alive and both might make the top 10!". By this point, we were all having a bloody good laugh at his expense, so decided to have another go (dps got excited and killed themselves during the orb phase, too busy laughing about the hunter). Anyway, attempt two - guess who died to the very first annihilation again? Yup, mr "im the only one good enough to be here everyone else sucks im the best!".

    No surprise, he alt-F4'd immediately and was never heard from again, and we killed the boss and casually ran the rest of the raid. His behavior, in my opinion, was quite toxic, and as is often the case with these players (as evidenced by the proudly toxic people in this thread) he genuinely believed he was better than he was, and was actually one of the worst players in the group. Thankfully, everyone else remained in a good mood, and pretty much just had a massive laugh at his expense.


    Further to the above wall of text, i should just add that some people are just very socially awkward, and terrible at reading the room. What i mean is they just seem to lack basic social skills that would indicate to them the general tone of the people they are with, and an appropriate way of behaving in that setting.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2020-09-21 at 11:53 PM.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    TLDR; there's a social bias that encourages taking the side of the first person who cries first without analyzing the entire situation, and to not try to reason with this person because we live in an era of weak men who are mostly unreasonable because they were never raised to be tough enough to admit their own faults.
    Thank you for your post. It seems to support my comment, shifting the blame onto others and that you are not at fault for your behavior.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    i like how you label toxic when you are as toxic as chernobyl

  19. #199
    One question to the people stating "Of course I call names to people who fuck my run. They deserve it.They would not learn otherwise"

    Don't you get reported and silenced? Is it that people don't report or is it that a silence implies a bigger offense than that?

    I'm actually asking...the puggosphere is a mistery to me.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Im worse than you for flipping out?
    Get a grib bro. You are the lowest of the low.

    You come into my threads and derail them completely WITHIN the forum rules.

    You use personal attacks and derail with endless posts until they get closed or i get banned for replying to you.

    This wouldnt be a problem IF moderation wasnt also against me, which they are.

    So yeah, stop pretending u are a "good boy" and lose your mask.
    You are the most toxic person here. ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD

    Clearly you have some issues to work through, I suggest taking a breather.

    On topic though, it's quite obvious from reading this thread that being good at something leads you to become extremely toxic towards those that aren't.

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