Crusader Kings 3

[Santti]

Been thinking I might want to give this game a try, but it just seems so overwhelming. I've watched various youtube videos and streams of people playing the game and it just feels like it's just too damn much. The only grand strategy games I've played have belonged in the Civilization series, but it's like comparing to riding a bicycle to that of flying an airplane.

What intrigues me the most is role-playing element of the game, and how much fun you can get out of that.

I have an annoying habit of being a bit of a perfectionist, which is largely why it feels like it's too much. Which of the million knobs you can fiddle with provides the best results, etc.

I think I'll keep watching let's plays for the time being. Maybe I'll eventually feel less intimidated by all the knobs.

[Blayze]

Which of the million knobs you can fiddle with provides the best results, etc.

It's a Grand Strategy game; that means none of the knobs do anything, but you must press them all on cooldown or lose sixty hours later.

[Pannonian]

Been thinking I might want to give this game a try, but it just seems so overwhelming. I've watched various youtube videos and streams of people playing the game and it just feels like it's just too damn much. The only grand strategy games I've played have belonged in the Civilization series, but it's like comparing to riding a bicycle to that of flying an airplane.

What intrigues me the most is role-playing element of the game, and how much fun you can get out of that.

I have an annoying habit of being a bit of a perfectionist, which is largely why it feels like it's too much. Which of the million knobs you can fiddle with provides the best results, etc.

I think I'll keep watching let's plays for the time being. Maybe I'll eventually feel less intimidated by all the knobs.

I know i have a skewed perspective on this (clocking nearly 15k hours in PDX games) but i'd argue that CK3 is the most accessible Grand Strategy Game to date (Stellaris may be even simpler, but that's 4X anyway).

In fact switching to CK3 wasn't that easy for me, as the interface has been drastically altered, BUT in a good way which is much more intuitive and easier to handle. Also this is the first of their games that has at least a passable tutorial. Add to that the fact that it's the bare game right now without any of the DLCs (which will come, make the game harder, and i'd bet all my money will never be reflected in the tutorials) it's the best chance to get into it.

[Mehrunes]

Been thinking I might want to give this game a try, but it just seems so overwhelming. I've watched various youtube videos and streams of people playing the game and it just feels like it's just too damn much. The only grand strategy games I've played have belonged in the Civilization series, but it's like comparing to riding a bicycle to that of flying an airplane.

What intrigues me the most is role-playing element of the game, and how much fun you can get out of that.

I have an annoying habit of being a bit of a perfectionist, which is largely why it feels like it's too much. Which of the million knobs you can fiddle with provides the best results, etc.

I think I'll keep watching let's plays for the time being. Maybe I'll eventually feel less intimidated by all the knobs.

Gotta agree with @Pannonian on that. CK3 is very intuitive and shows a lot of information in a convenient and approachable manner. There are all manner of tooltips that either explain a given mechanic, point you towards the relevant place or person or highlights the relevant place or person. And from what I heard the tutorial is pretty good (though apparently still misses some things). Pannonian also makes a good point about jumping in before the DLCs come.

However, I'd suggest you wait till the incoming (who knows when though) patch. For two reasons. First, despite the fact that CK3 provides a lot of information easily, it still misses some important notifications. For example, it doesn't inform you when your court physician dies and having a court physician is important to the survivability of your knights (and your court if you get hit with an epidemic). And the patch is going to include "new UI elements" so maybe things like that will be included.

Second reason is that there are many bugs right now. Some are rather insignificant to the overall experience or learning the game, but some are pretty important. There is a bug that fucks over the title inheritance for example. And if you are completely new you may not even realize things are working the way they should, learn then things in their bugged form and only get confused when they get fixed.

[Pannonian]

Gotta agree with @Pannonian on that. CK3 is very intuitive and shows a lot of information in a convenient and approachable manner. There are all manner of tooltips that either explain a given mechanic, point you towards the relevant place or person or highlights the relevant place or person. And from what I heard the tutorial is pretty good (though apparently still misses some things). Pannonian also makes a good point about jumping in before the DLCs come.

However, I'd suggest you wait till the incoming (who knows when though) patch. For two reasons. First, despite the fact that CK3 provides a lot of information easily, it still misses some important notifications. For example, it doesn't inform you when your court physician dies and having a court physician is important to the survivability of your knights (and your court if you get hit with an epidemic). And the patch is going to include "new UI elements" so maybe things like that will be included.

Second reason is that there are many bugs right now. Some are rather insignificant to the overall experience or learning the game, but some are pretty important. There is a bug that fucks over the title inheritance for example. And if you are completely new you may not even realize things are working the way they should, learn then things in their bugged form and only get confused when they get fixed.

Full agree. Sadly it's best pratice to wait for the first big patch after each release/DLC when it comes to PDX.

But for your problem specifically (the physician) there is a suggestion to "hire court physician" though it doesn't fire the moment you loose your old one (i think only on the monthly tick?) - but i can really recommend the Mod "Expanded Alerts" which creates a stand alone alert for that specific problems (also for decisions and missing wards)- highly recommended.

[Ghostpanther]

Just because historical battles were won by numerically inferior enemy doesn't mean they weren't won because of some "stats". Take Prussia's war with Austria for example. Prussians repeatedly won because of their greater discipline and military culture, combined with their newer equipment. Particularly guns that allowed for much faster reloading. And Prussian space marines are a long time meme in EUIV, because due to Prussia's insane discipline bonuses they can slaughter armies multiple times larger than them.

The same goes for CK3. The better commander can create a significant advantage. Same goes with terrain modifiers, or things like catching an enemy shortly after disembarking (when they'd still be disorganized). And if you're fighting an enemy with just a bunch of levies (like peasant revolts) and you have some good knights and men at arms you can have an army just a sliver of the enemy's size and you'd still mop the floor with them.

Now, sure, at the end it's all "stats", but each of those stats represents something. Be it technological advantage, better commanders, better army standards and so on. Which not only are ultimately also "stats" IRL like I already pointed out, but at this point we're already going beyond the parameters of your complaint.

Meanwhile in Total War, great as it is, you can do utterly ridiculous things like making the enemy waste all its ammo by dancing a single unit in front of them, completely taking a significant part of their military prowess (especially for factions that revolve around strong ranged units) out of the equation, before the proper battle even starts.

No need to do that however. Just send a flying unit to outflank the ranged units or attack them from the rear with fast moving units. This is called basic military tactics. Strike and then run is also another well used tactic that has been used for centuries.

Never said unit stats where not important in battles. But tactics and using them at the right time , can turn what seems like a lost, to a victory.

But thanks for the response. I will pass on CK3. Doesn't sound like a game I would enjoy.

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Battle Advantage plays a huge role, as well as the dice rolls each tick. The interesting thing about ck 3 is the efficiency of troops. Levies are basically cannon fodder, while knights kill huge amounts of levies.

So i've seen elite armies (men at arms + knights) take on levy armies 5-10 times their size. Add to that the counter mechanic of men-at-arms and you can get into a Crescy or Agincourt-like situation.

Tough let's be honest, it is CK and therefore warfare is less important than EU and less prominent.

Yep it appears not to be a game I would enjoy. I have played CK2 and did not like it for the same reason.

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Specifically regarding that, I've had battles in EU4 looking like this:


Anyone that claims it's all about numerical sizes of armies in EU4 has a limited understanding of just how much the other modifiers at hand can matter.

The roll of the dice is a important factor. And I admit, luck has played a roll in some major battles down thru history.

[Pannonian]

The important things first... Can you appoint a horse pope?

Not without mods, and i'm not sure if there is already a horse pope, but hentai girl popes for sure!

[Easo]

The important things first... Can you appoint a horse pope?

Nope, a lot of CK2 stuff is still missing (like societies, for example).

[Mehrunes]

A big patch tomorrow. Fixes a lot of things (though some in a roundabout manner). Sadly, the devs walked out on their pre-release claims of how AI will use matrilineal marriages and now it'll just use them in female-oriented religions, which is still a step down from CK2. And the fact that equal isn't on the list is just idiotic. From other sad news, Wendish Empire is changed to Southern Baltic Empire. Even though all Sloviene provinces and most of the Czech ones are actually closer to the Adriatic. A terrible and just lazy name change. That wasn't even needed, because there was a Baltic tribe called the Wendi (it's their Latin name, but still), that created a link for the Baltic people. Which is more than can be stated for most other empires and the cultures that inhabit their de jure borders.