Pay to win?

[Ashleyxoxo]

Again, the only advantage you get from paying is variety.

Not true. While playing more decks than your primary one, you learn how other decks play, what their weaknesses are, etc. Then you are better prepared against them on your “main” deck. Notice that “Zeddy” and all the other people like him didn’t hit legend when they first started out. Instead, they used their knowledge of other decks and made alt accounts years after they started playing, because they know how other decks play. And how do you know how other decks play? By having played them yourself.

[Belloc]

Either you farm/play for a few years like some of us and are caught up. Or you buy some packs/farm more to get all cards.

Why would hearthstone be pay to win? It's not like you need every card for every class to reach legend rank or whatever you refer to as "win".

It's P2W because, even if you farm a ton of gold and buy a ton of packs at the start of an expansion, the meta will shift within a week or two and those decks you built will no longer be competitively viable.

If you want to reach legend status, you have to invest full-time job levels of time (to get past the RNG) or you need to invest real life money. That's P2W no matter how you slice it.

[Greeney]

It's P2W because, even if you farm a ton of gold and buy a ton of packs at the start of an expansion, the meta will shift within a week or two and those decks you built will no longer be competitively viable.

Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).

If you want to reach legend status, you have to invest full-time job levels of time (to get past the RNG) or you need to invest real life money. That's P2W no matter how you slice it.

Before April, yes. After April, no.

If you can't get past the 'rng-fest' now with any tier 1 or 2 deck, no amount of money is going to help you do it.

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Not true. While playing more decks than your primary one, you learn how other decks play, what their weaknesses are, etc. Then you are better prepared against them on your “main” deck. Notice that “Zeddy” and all the other people like him didn’t hit legend when they first started out. Instead, they used their knowledge of other decks and made alt accounts years after they started playing, because they know how other decks play. And how do you know how other decks play? By having played them yourself.

You can watch streamers play, you learn as you play the other classes enough and know what surprises to expect, you read guides on playing or how to play against those classes, or you make an alt account to craft and focus on those classes to play those decks and learn them if you feel there's one or two you need to focus on. None of that requires payment.

[Ragnarohk]

Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).

Wild is more expensive (be it gold or real money). You need cards from every expansion.

[Greeney]

Wild is more expensive (be it gold or real money). You need cards from every expansion.

I understand why you think that, but you are incorrect. A deck of 30 cards is a deck of 30 cards. Good decks in wild are cheaper (besides reno) and will last longer.

[Ragnarohk]

I understand why you think that, but you are incorrect. A deck of 30 cards is a deck of 30 cards. Good decks in wild are cheaper (besides reno) and will last longer.

Maybe my view is biased. I dusted almost everything before year of the dragon. I would have to re-craft cards like Emperor Thaurissan, etc.

[Greeney]

Maybe my view is biased. I dusted almost everything before year of the dragon. I would have to re-craft cards like Emperor Thaurissan, etc.

Yeah that's unfortunate if you ever decide to give wild a try, and you may not enjoy wild as much as standard; I'm just arguing that it's just easier from a dust cost perspective in general if you're free to play.

[Kathranis]

Pay to win? Not necessarily.

Pay to have fun? Yeah, definitely can be the case. If you're missing cards, you'll face limitations in deckbuilding that can prevent you from playing decks that are both fun and viable.

Personally I've not had much fun in HS in... quite a while. Well, OTK DH was really fun while it lasted, but I just generally dislike the current meta decks and I don't really want to spend the resources needed to experiment with all the decks to find one I enjoy.

I've considered giving Wild a shot, and I've also toyed around with Legends of Runeterra a fair bit, and that one at least seems far more F2P friendly than HS.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Why I keep bringing up wild. The meta barely ever shifts (except when they want to kill tier s decks).



Before April, yes. After April, no.

If you can't get past the 'rng-fest' now with any tier 1 or 2 deck, no amount of money is going to help you do it.

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You can watch streamers play, you learn as you play the other classes enough and know what surprises to expect, you read guides on playing or how to play against those classes, or you make an alt account to craft and focus on those classes to play those decks and learn them if you feel there's one or two you need to focus on. None of that requires payment.

You know the game is pay to win when you suggest rigging the system.

[Mysterymask]

..why are ya'll still arguing whether Hearthstone is pay to win...

cause its A DIGITIAL TRADING CARD GAME similar to MTG, Yugioh, Vs System etc...you pay money to get more cards that you can use to win more games...its not like its a big secret

the different is the AMOUNT of pay to win...even then how much you really give a shit about winning

the game can be EASILY played with the smallest investment. Are you going to make Legend? likely not but if your looking for a game you can just play on a lunch break or whatever this works. Even then what does getting Legend get you? A card back...maybe the chance to be in a tournament or something where you MIGHT get 5-7 figures if you happen to be the guy who wins? Maybe your a streamer who's making money playing this damned game anyway so you get your investment back in spades? Even then this is also a DIGITAL card game...where if Blizz ever decides to pull the plug...poof everything's gone!

Then there's that bullshit where someone was all "Oh the conversion cost of cards is abyssmal in comparison"....Lets make a comparison shall we

Worst MTG Rare and Best MTG rare vs Best Hearthstone Legendary vs Worst Hearthstone Legendary

..for this I'll use One With Nothing as one of the worst..and Black Lotus as the best

With Hearthstone...Millhouse Manastorm vs Ragnaros

the MTG ones are out of print one is a staple in Vintage one is ..basically garbage where Rag is one of the best legendaries and Millhouse being the worst...

the difference is cost and availability. That lotus price is just one but usually gets high up there but I can sell my entire MTG collection and probably not even come close to buying one black lotus..even at the cheapest unlimited version

where as in Hearthstone both Rag and Millhouse costs the same and I can dust Millhouse and one other legendary to get Rag

BUT Black Lotus will always be around..if WoTC collapses today the people who own Black Lotus still have that value where if Blizz shuts down all those cards go wherever things go when you empty the recycle bin

[Greeney]

You know the game is pay to win when you suggest rigging the system.

How is anything there considered rigging the system?

[XangXu]

I really don't understand this pay-to-win nonsense. I played magic for years and then switched to Hearthstone. I never played either of those games to "win" and "remain competitive". I played because I enjoyed expanding my collection and coming up with crazy ideas for decks.

And the way they throw packs of cards at players for free in the game makes me wonder why anyone would complain at all. Between free cards from expansions, quests, and wins, you really don't need to invest at all. If you're a super hardcore player who is just jumping in and wants to become top tier, then yes you'll probably want to invest money into the game.

I introduced my mother to the game a few months ago and I was worried she might complain about the lack of cards. I was quite surprised to see how many cards she has been acquiring for free.

Edit:
Also, i'm not sure why anyone would subject themselves to standard, and not just play Wild. My advice to enjoy the game is to unlock Wild Mode and then never look back.

Standard is MADE to take your money. They restrict the cards you can use and they control the meta. In Wild, anything goes and I end up having far more interesting games. The made also most closely resembles the playstyle that I was used to with Magic the Gathering. When I played Magic with strangers, there was no restricting my collection to certain modern sets or anything like that. It was anything goes so long as you own the card.

There were certain combos that made it extremely unfair to play against, and generally it was looked down upon to use those strategies, but there were no official rules against it.

Standard mode is for suckers.

[Ashleyxoxo]

Defenders have gotten quiet after the "system revamp."

[Amarys]

Defenders have gotten quiet after the "system revamp."

Yep.. used to say it's not pay to win, now I'm not so sure any more.

[LedZeppelin]

Im so glad i switched to leagues of runeterra. they give you DECKS with multiple copies of the highest rarity in the game

[McNeil]

Hearthstone is undefendable at this point. I always thought that it was already a very expensive game and that newcomers have a very hard time starting up, now with the new progression system its an entire nightmare to even do anything. At least battlegrounds is still actually free if your willing to put up with only 2 hero picks and not being able to track your previous warbands or use emotes.

[Ynisl]

I stopped playing this great card game after I realized that donate is everything! Just throw in some money and become a leader with top cards

[Big Thanks]

I stopped playing this great card game after I realized that donate is everything! Just throw in some money and become a leader with top cards

Legends of Runeterra it is then Welcome to the team

[Amarys]

I stopped playing this great card game after I realized that donate is everything! Just throw in some money and become a leader with top cards

As much as I dislike some other aspects of the game, this isn't true at all. I've spent no money on the game but can easily get to legend every month and can afford every deck I want as well as some eccentricities like golden card collections.

HS is definitely not P2W, at worst it's pay for shortcuts or pay to save time.. but then again you get tons of gold for just playing the game and most modes don't even depend on your collection.

[Jurani]

Big News a CCG costs money to have a big collection.

Anyways, the first expansion of the year is actually the best time to be a casual player. A whole year of cards is removed from the pool and only 1 expansion takes their place. You'll be not quite as far behind as usual.