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  1. #1
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    Why players enjoy ruining M+ runs?

    Sorry, have to vent.

    Seems week after week, one way or another, I can't progress anywhere with my M+ keys since players from a certain eastern european server enjoy ruining people's runs. Just now, I had a +5 key for Siege of Boralus and after waiting almost 1h to find a tank and a healer, we got a full group and right at the start, this eastern european dps warrior started pulling everthing and trying to wipe us over and over. We told him to stop as he was not only trying to ruin the run but he was also getting himself killed on purpose. Before the 1st boss he decided to run ahead, pull packs and boss and run back to us, and decides to leave the group without ever having saying anything other than the "hi" when I invited him in the first place. With him , everyone else also leaves , leaving me alone in the dungeon and having wasted my precisou key.

    Last week happened something similar, with yet another player from a certain eastern european country.. I simply don't understand why people have nothing better to do with their time, and nothing happens to them when they clearly are ruining and "griefing" (hate the word but it's exactly what is going on here) other people's playtime. Plus, now that I don't have my own key, I can't even start groups for M+ or even join others bc I'm always declined due to this particular char being 440..

    Sorry for the vent, I'm pissed and quite frankly frustrated with all this
    You don't understand. Having an unpayed full time job that no one appreciates is the magic of classic.

    It's about the journey. The journey into depression. The journey of running a daycare full of middle-aged alcoholics ignoring their SOs and avoiding social engagements to fulfill something they wanted 15 years ago before everyone realized it's not hard at all.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    Just now, I had a +5 key for Siege of Boralus and after waiting almost 1h to find a tank and a healer, we got a full group and right at the start, this eastern european dps warrior started pulling everthing and trying to wipe us over and over. We told him to stop as he was not only trying to ruin the run but he was also getting himself killed on purpose. Before the 1st boss he decided to run ahead, pull packs and boss and run back to us, and decides to leave the group without ever having saying anything other than the "hi" when I invited him in the first place. With him , everyone else also leaves , leaving me alone in the dungeon and having wasted my precisou key.
    This is griefing, reporting him is the most pressing concern (if blizz receieves several reports on the same player for bad behavior, they will act eventually). If this happened after an argument in the group or toxic behavior from other members, it's probably deserved.

    All the more reason to find a guild and make friends, push with people you know wont screw you over. It's an mmo afterall.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    This is griefing, reporting him is the most pressing concern (if blizz receieves several reports on the same player for bad behavior, they will act eventually). If this happened after an argument in the group or toxic behavior from other members, it's probably deserved.

    All the more reason to find a guild and make friends, push with people you know wont screw you over. It's an mmo afterall.
    You're so cute thinking anyone will get banned for this
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  4. #4
    It's very unlikely those chars try to grief anyone on purpose. Few people do that for the sake of it.

    But I can see the described situation happen due to a big experience gap. High experience players (e.g. lots of 15++ keys done on main) can be prone to be impatient and ninja pull when you put them in really low keys on alts. I would never do that in a pug, but I am guilty of that when playing really low keys in a full premade with irl friends. It's a common theme - I ninja pull, causing a friend tank to tilt that I'm taking away his control over pulls, and that's a reality check that I just went too far...

    Reporting such players in pugs has basically 0% chance to have any effect.

  5. #5
    Because they are mentally deficient dicks who doesn't have anything better to do.
    Infracted
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-09-27 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaykay View Post
    This is griefing, reporting him is the most pressing concern (if blizz receieves several reports on the same player for bad behavior, they will act eventually). If this happened after an argument in the group or toxic behavior from other members, it's probably deserved.

    All the more reason to find a guild and make friends, push with people you know wont screw you over. It's an mmo afterall.
    No, it isn't "griefing".
    First of all Blizzard does not use or recognize the term "griefing". You won't find it anywhere in the in-game policy. Yes, Blizzard uses the term "griefing". I was wrong.
    Secondly leaving a group, for any reason whatsoever, is fully within the right of a player, as well as it is the right to kick a player for any reason whatsoever.
    Let me quote you Blizzard's in-game policy:

    "Player Left Mythic Dungeon Before completing
    Updated: 2 months ago
    Article ID: 117469
    Relevant Products:
    Common Problems

    Group wiped while doing a mythic plus and the player we invited to our group left
    I just started a mythic plus run and a member left

    Customer Support does not upgrade, restore, or create keystones. Running the dungeon again with the downgraded keystone will award a new upgraded keystone, as long as finished within the time limit."

    https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/117469

    Combine that with Blizzard's policy on removing/kicking players:
    "Groups are empowered to manage their own members through the vote-kick system. If the majority of the group feels a player should be removed, they can initiate a vote-kick to remove them. The system is entirely under the control of our players. Players may choose to remove any other player from the group for any reason, provided the vote to kick passes.

    Note: Groups formed outside of the queue system (Guild Runs, Mythic +, etc.) will not utilize the vote-kick system. Instead those groups will have one party leader that controls who gets invited or removed."

    https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/52363

    What can we conclude from the articles:
    As long as you don't use language banned by Blizzard, then you can do what the hell you want in a dungeon group: Kick, remove or leave.
    So leaving a group or kicking someone is not considered "griefing" by Blizzard.

    To the OP:
    If you really think that players from certain servers/countries are worse than others then why the hell do you invite them?
    I would never invite anyone from the Italian or Spanish server(s). Complaining won't get you anywhere. Stop inviting people that lessen you in-game experience.
    Last edited by T-34; 2020-09-22 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Griefing is used by Blizzard

  7. #7
    +5 doesnt sound that precious. Also, find a guild, laugh at random groups!
    A witty saying proves nothing.
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    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by T-34 View Post
    No, it isn't "griefing".
    First of all Blizzard does not use or recognize the term "griefing". You won't find it anywhere in the in-game policy.
    Uh....

    Behavior
    Behavior that intentionally detracts from others' enjoyment (such as griefing, throwing, feeding, etc.) is unacceptable. We expect our players to treat each other with respect and promote an enjoyable environment. Acceptable behavior is determined by player reports and Blizzard's decision, and violating these guidelines will result in account and gameplay restrictions.
    https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    Sorry, have to vent.

    Seems week after week, one way or another, I can't progress anywhere with my M+ keys since players from a certain eastern european server enjoy ruining people's runs. Just now, I had a +5 key for Siege of Boralus and after waiting almost 1h to find a tank and a healer, we got a full group and right at the start, this eastern european dps warrior started pulling everthing and trying to wipe us over and over. We told him to stop as he was not only trying to ruin the run but he was also getting himself killed on purpose. Before the 1st boss he decided to run ahead, pull packs and boss and run back to us, and decides to leave the group without ever having saying anything other than the "hi" when I invited him in the first place. With him , everyone else also leaves , leaving me alone in the dungeon and having wasted my precisou key.

    Last week happened something similar, with yet another player from a certain eastern european country.. I simply don't understand why people have nothing better to do with their time, and nothing happens to them when they clearly are ruining and "griefing" (hate the word but it's exactly what is going on here) other people's playtime. Plus, now that I don't have my own key, I can't even start groups for M+ or even join others bc I'm always declined due to this particular char being 440..

    Sorry for the vent, I'm pissed and quite frankly frustrated with all this
    1) Please don’t make these vent threads. I understand your frustration but the forum gets very cluttered if everybody makes a thread everytime they are mad about something in the game. There are already multiple threads about toxic people in M+.

    2) Please, please do yourself a HUGE favor and find a nice guild you can do your M+ runs with. It will make you much less frustrated and it is so so much more fun to do M+ with the same people compared to running with new random people all the time. Being on discord with guildies and doing M+ is awesome!
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-09-22 at 12:52 PM.

  10. #10
    I don't think I could stomach running m+ with randoms on the regular. The only m+ dungeons I tend to run are with known people from a discord community I frequent. It's always a good time even if we fail the timer.

    That said, m+ is not content I find interesting enough to run endlessly for gear. I'll do a single dungeon for the weekly chest if I can get away with it, or as I've been chasing the Keystone Master achievement as we've been slowly approaching the end of BFA, I'll try to time a +15 of each dungeon and helping others in the community do the same, but I'm not gonna run any m+ beyond those sorts of goals.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    I stand corrected. "Griefing" is a term used by Blizzard.

  12. #12
    Theres plenty of decent communities out there.

    Plus, why run with those "Eastern Europeans" in the first place? They are either amazing or trash and tbh at this stage of the expac running a +5 the balance of probability lies with trash.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    Sorry, have to vent.

    Seems week after week, one way or another, I can't progress anywhere with my M+ keys since players from a certain eastern european server enjoy ruining people's runs. Just now, I had a +5 key for Siege of Boralus and after waiting almost 1h to find a tank and a healer, we got a full group and right at the start, this eastern european dps warrior started pulling everthing and trying to wipe us over and over. We told him to stop as he was not only trying to ruin the run but he was also getting himself killed on purpose. Before the 1st boss he decided to run ahead, pull packs and boss and run back to us, and decides to leave the group without ever having saying anything other than the "hi" when I invited him in the first place. With him , everyone else also leaves , leaving me alone in the dungeon and having wasted my precisou key.

    Last week happened something similar, with yet another player from a certain eastern european country.. I simply don't understand why people have nothing better to do with their time, and nothing happens to them when they clearly are ruining and "griefing" (hate the word but it's exactly what is going on here) other people's playtime. Plus, now that I don't have my own key, I can't even start groups for M+ or even join others bc I'm always declined due to this particular char being 440..

    Sorry for the vent, I'm pissed and quite frankly frustrated with all this
    As sad as it is... there are certain nationalities, i don't play with anymore.
    One is the certain eastern one. Becuase it had nothing but bad runs with them. And the other is a western european one. They just don't talk english and expect you to speak their language...

    So i just don't invite them period.

    Not saying people from my country are holy. We are disliked strongly too as far as i know^^

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    +5 doesnt sound that precious. Also, find a guild, laugh at random groups!
    This, so much.

    I dont get the issue with being in a guild, its not like ppl will DEMAND u show up for 8h each day to boost the GMs alt in raids or M+.
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  15. #15
    One of the main reasons i never want to ever do M+ again to much drama going on in there for my taste if that means i run out of stuff to do early then so be it.

  16. #16
    I did my time pugging keystone dungeons in the first two patches of BFA, never again
    Get into a guild you enjoy, make some friends, or even join a keystone community and never worry about trash runs again!

  17. #17
    Dont do keys now
    Wait for Shadowlands
    Everyone will equally suck and have pathetic R.IO
    You will atleast start at the same level

    You can also find your friends/guild and do M+ with them

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    You're so cute thinking anyone will get banned for this
    No you are cute if you think Blizzard ignores everything

  19. #19
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    This is a side effect of what WoW has become; effectively a hub of "disposable humans" to help you achieve your goal.
    Instead of building groups, forging relationships, and creating a core of like-minded players, LFG allows for you to get "some random person", which in turn opens the door for this type of thing.

    Why do people grief?
    Because they can...

    Think of it like playing a game of pick-up basketball at a random gym.
    You have no clue what you're getting into, maybe aside from seeing some of them shooting around or whatever, so when you go to play, they could very well be poor players or take stupid risks for the sake of being flashy, whatever.
    It's random chance.
    But, when you go with a group of people you know, with whom you are familiar, you are less likely to suffer those random bursts of annoyances (ofc, totally dependent on friends in the group... lol, but the analogy still stands).

    They grief because they can, and you accept it because you use the tool that allows for this random pairing.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    Instead of building groups, forging relationships, and creating a core of like-minded players, LFG allows for you to get "some random person", which in turn opens the door for this type of thing.
    You can still do that though, why would the existance of LFG hinder you doing any of that?

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