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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    Ugh. Rules for Makgora are decided by the participants. How do people not understand this yet?
    A thousand times this.

    Thrall's powers suffered not because he cheated but because he forced the elements to kill Garrosh in his anger. Garrosh gained the favor of the elements in AU Draenor because he came with the warning of the impending Legion invasion they didn't want him to die. When Thrall forced the issue he used dark shamanism and his guilt over doing so has made him question himself.
    Yeah, this is spelled out pretty clearly in the Doomhammer lore in Legion: Thrall's problems are entirely in his own mind.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Are we talking AU or MU?
    I'm talking about AU. Look at the first word in my topic post.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Why would Ner'zhul challenge grom if he was literally summoning Dark Naaru and doing a lot of more important things?
    Because that's all Grom's order? If he didn't do it the Iron Horde would have invaded the Shadowmoon clan?

    If Mak'gora is the sacred traditions of the Orcs. Ner'zhul could have just challenged Grom a Mak'gora and "honorably" one-shot him, like I said with void magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    Gul'dan needed Grom to be his warrior enhanced by fel and to lead warriors into battle.
    Ner'zhul was never power thirsty? He had his own goals
    Gul'dan doesn't need Grom, Gul'dan need Fel based Orc Warchief with a Fel based Orc army.

    If Grom refused, then Gul'dan could have just challenged Grom a sacred Mak'gora infront of everyone, and again, honorably shot him.

    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Nobody complained when Thrall used lightning bolts in his first mak'gora with Garrosh.
    Obviously that's very different fight. Both fully armored, it was Mak'gora not to death.

    Besides that, it's an in-game style fight, not a cinematic style fight. That's like comparing a Hearthstone fight with a cinematic fight. In-game fights are always less detailed and less realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    A thousand times this.
    Cairne disagrees.

    Mak'gora has rules. It's just that it's not consistent because Blizzard's fail writings.
    Last edited by XalAtoh; 2020-09-22 at 04:48 PM.

  3. #23
    i guess its clear when you start the fight if you can use magic or not. one of you said in the movie it was clear that it was a fist fight which you saw because guldan took of his armor and staff.

    also what i want to know is, if magic is okay to do, would spellcaster have the upper hand? like what can a warrior do in lore? or can a warrior maybe even cast spells from the game like spellreflect (and surely a warrior can interupt a cast or not?). what do you think?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Because it is cheating. That's why Sylvanas didn't oneshot Saurfang with her magic bolt at the beginning of the fight, and did so only after she already revealed her true nature.

    She was hiding her true power. Nothing more.

    Why does this “thrall cheated” BS keep coming up? If you don’t know wow lore then stfu. Magic, multiple weapons and armor have been used in previous mak’gora. It’s up to the combatants to decide the rules. It’s simply a one on one duel. Period.

    Forget the movie. It isn’t connected to WoW. Forget thrall being abandoned by the elements. This is explained in game. He abused the elements by forcing them to kill garrosh out of anger. They would NOT give two shits about some dueling rules made up by orcs.
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    There's no point in saying this, even if you slap them upside down and inside out with the truth, the tin foil hat brigade will continue to believe the opposite.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    She was hiding her true power. Nothing more.

    Why does this “thrall cheated” BS keep coming up? If you don’t know wow lore then stfu. Magic, multiple weapons and armor have been used in previous mak’gora. It’s up to the combatants to decide the rules. It’s simply a one on one duel. Period.

    Forget the movie. It isn’t connected to WoW. Forget thrall being abandoned by the elements. This is explained in game. He abused the elements by forcing them to kill garrosh out of anger. They would NOT give two shits about some dueling rules made up by orcs.
    So when are we going to get the Grenade duel? To fill the modernized high tech Horde lore.

    Or better, the pistol Mak'gora, whoever is able to pull the trigger first wins. So much respect, the Orcs clearly cheers and respect the Orc Chieftain for it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Nobody complained when Thrall used lightning bolts in his first mak'gora with Garrosh.
    Garrosh also said thrall changed the Rules though so it could be by actual orc rules her a big fat cheater.

    But blizzard would have to tell us the actual rules to know that one way or the other.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathreim View Post
    Ugh. Rules for Makgora are decided by the participants. How do people not understand this yet?

    Both Thrall and Garrosh already broke the rules of the traditional Makgora by wearing armor. They were not using the traditional rules from the start and Garrosh would not limit Thrall anyway.

    Gul'dan vs Durotan from the movies was a fist fight the rules are clear here even if they are not spelled out in detail for the audience. If Mike Tyson pulled a pistol and shot his opponent you would call it cheating.

    Thrall's powers suffered not because he cheated but because he forced the elements to kill Garrosh in his anger. Garrosh gained the favor of the elements in AU Draenor because he came with the warning of the impending Legion invasion they didn't want him to die. When Thrall forced the issue he used dark shamanism and his guilt over doing so has made him question himself.
    So, that never happened. Garrosh never mentioned the Legion and the Elements hated Garrosh because of his abuse and dark shamans.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by XalAtoh View Post
    snip
    1st of all chill dude
    2nd - still haven't answered my questions - why would ner'zhul or gul'dan need to challenge grom?
    AFAIK he didn't do anything terrible to Ner'zhul and Gul'dan got his revenge next time they met?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    She was hiding her true power. Nothing more.
    From whom? Her enemies? They didn't even know where her powers came from or what they consisted of, only that they were connected to Death (they couldn't even trace her connection to Jailer or Shadowlands).
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by XalAtoh View Post
    Cairne disagrees.

    Mak'gora has rules. It's just that it's not consistent because Blizzard's fail writings.
    It has a set of traditional rules that nobody follows anymore, and nobody expects to follow anymore. Garrosh's demand for traditional rules surprised Cairne for that reason, and was in fact just a (failed) bluff on Garrosh's part to get Cairne to back down.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by XalAtoh View Post
    Obviously that's very different fight. Both fully armored, it was Mak'gora not to death.

    Besides that, it's an in-game style fight, not a cinematic style fight. That's like comparing a Hearthstone fight with a cinematic fight. In-game fights are always less detailed and less realistic.
    Hey look, here it is in the comics, using lightning.



    Also lol armour as if that's relevant to the use of magic.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    1st of all chill dude
    2nd - still haven't answered my questions - why would ner'zhul or gul'dan need to challenge grom?
    AFAIK he didn't do anything terrible to Ner'zhul and Gul'dan got his revenge next time they met?
    I'm literally explaining it in the post... I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. All your questions are answered in the post you reply to....

    Gul'dan didn't got what he wanted, he could if he challenged Grom a mak'gora and just "honorably" one-shotted him in front of the Warsong Clan.

    Same goes for Ner'zhul, he didn't had to fear Grom. He could just challenge him a Mak'gora and again, "honorably" one shot him. Grom didn't do anything terrible to Ner'zhul because he summoned the Dark Naru (against Ner'zhul's / Shadowmoon Clan's own will).

    Back to Gul'dan, by the time Gul'dan got "his revenge" the Iron Horde was drastically weakened. Blackrock down, Warsong down, Shadowmoon down, Shattered hand down. This could all be prevented with a Mak'gora during the early WoD confrontation. Gul'dan one-shots Grom. Despite that magic looks like disgraceful against Warrior duel and screams cheating (especially if you use it when you start to lose).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Hey look, here it is in the comics, using lightning.



    Also lol armour as if that's relevant to the use of magic.
    What's the point? The comic version is not like a detailed fight. Most importantly nobody got seriously wounded by the lightning at all. Thrall was even losing, even tho Garrosh was hit by the lightning bolts.

    Despite that, I think most cheating aspect of Thrall is the fact that he locked Garrosh from distance with hand made of stone. Maybe in Warcraft lore it's possible to deflect or even dodge a lightning bolt (besides in-game). But locking someone's movement even neglects that. That's basically the same way how Cairne died, the poison basically froze Cairne's body, Garrosh gave the killing blow.

  13. #33
    Makgora dont have a set ruleset, its just a concept, and Magic was never considered off limits, thats a movie thing.

    Also, we dont know what rules they set, and we have Garrosh using two weapons (Gorehowl and his fists) while Thrall is also using two weapons (Doomhammer/Magic)

  14. #34
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    Using magic in a makgora against someone who don't use IS cheating, the only time it was allowed was in a fight where both participants used and he rule were said before the match. b affles me ho people can say poison is not ok but magic is, because ~~reasons~~, this whole mess is also blizzard fault for forgetting that and making thrall a cheat, "we can't make our green jesus a cheat, just say it was ok using the elements, no matter how fucked up the implications will be!1!"

    plus, he got away because no one saw it besides us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Hey look, here it is in the comics, using lightning.

    Also lol armour as if that's relevant to the use of magic.
    the light was used only to finish the fight

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by XalAtoh View Post
    I'm literally explaining it in the post... I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. All your questions are answered in the post you reply to....

    Gul'dan didn't got what he wanted, he could if he challenged Grom a mak'gora and just "honorably" one-shotted him in front of the Warsong Clan.

    Same goes for Ner'zhul, he didn't had to fear Grom. He could just challenge him a Mak'gora and again, "honorably" one shot him. Grom didn't do anything terrible to Ner'zhul because he summoned the Dark Naru (against Ner'zhul's / Shadowmoon Clan's own will).

    Back to Gul'dan, by the time Gul'dan got "his revenge" the Iron Horde was drastically weakened. Blackrock down, Warsong down, Shadowmoon down, Shattered hand down. This could all be prevented with a Mak'gora during the early WoD confrontation. Gul'dan one-shots Grom. Despite that magic looks like disgraceful against Warrior duel and screams cheating (especially if you use it when you start to lose).

    - - - Updated - - -



    What's the point? The comic version is not like a detailed fight. Most importantly nobody got seriously wounded by the lightning at all. Thrall was even losing, even tho Garrosh was hit by the lightning bolts.

    Despite that, I think most cheating aspect of Thrall is the fact that he locked Garrosh from distance with hand made of stone. Maybe in Warcraft lore it's possible to deflect or even dodge a lightning bolt (besides in-game). But locking someone's movement even neglects that. That's basically the same way how Cairne died, the poison basically froze Cairne's body, Garrosh gave the killing blow.
    The comic version completely changed the fight though. In game, Garrosh was winning, Thrall was on his knees and when the Lich King attacked, they called it off. In the comic (and later mentioned in several novels and short stories), Thrall completely destroyed Garrosh in seconds.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by XalAtoh View Post
    I'm literally explaining it in the post... I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. All your questions are answered in the post you reply to....

    Gul'dan didn't got what he wanted, he could if he challenged Grom a mak'gora and just "honorably" one-shotted him in front of the Warsong Clan.

    Same goes for Ner'zhul, he didn't had to fear Grom. He could just challenge him a Mak'gora and again, "honorably" one shot him. Grom didn't do anything terrible to Ner'zhul because he summoned the Dark Naru (against Ner'zhul's / Shadowmoon Clan's own will).

    Back to Gul'dan, by the time Gul'dan got "his revenge" the Iron Horde was drastically weakened. Blackrock down, Warsong down, Shadowmoon down, Shattered hand down. This could all be prevented with a Mak'gora during the early WoD confrontation. Gul'dan one-shots Grom. Despite that magic looks like disgraceful against Warrior duel and screams cheating (especially if you use it when you start to lose).

    - - - Updated - - -



    What's the point? The comic version is not like a detailed fight. Most importantly nobody got seriously wounded by the lightning at all. Thrall was even losing, even tho Garrosh was hit by the lightning bolts.

    Despite that, I think most cheating aspect of Thrall is the fact that he locked Garrosh from distance with hand made of stone. Maybe in Warcraft lore it's possible to deflect or even dodge a lightning bolt (besides in-game). But locking someone's movement even neglects that. That's basically the same way how Cairne died, the poison basically froze Cairne's body, Garrosh gave the killing blow.
    I see, so it's only cheating to immobilise your opponent.

    Sure would be a shame if that was present in another mak'gora.

    Oh wait, immobilising shamanic magic being used completely legitimately in another mak'gora.

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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    It has a set of traditional rules that nobody follows anymore, and nobody expects to follow anymore. Garrosh's demand for traditional rules surprised Cairne for that reason, and was in fact just a (failed) bluff on Garrosh's part to get Cairne to back down.
    Doesn't matter that nobody follows it any more, the fact is that Mak'gora originally HAD rules. Thrall just redefined them to none-lethal. (He basically in WoD broke his own rule, fail).

    And yes, Garrosh wanted the classical Mak'gora to death to scare Cairne, but that doesn't change a thing, does it?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Garrosh also said thrall changed the Rules though so it could be by actual orc rules her a big fat cheater.

    But blizzard would have to tell us the actual rules to know that one way or the other.
    the actual rules were the ones used in the shattering, when Garrosh invoked the "OG" mak'gora against Cairne

    only one weapon, if it fall you use your fists
    no armor
    to the death

    the other ones were adapted to the moment/period of time, like not being to the death, armor being allowed if both wee using and were ok, the point was: it still have to be a honorable fight

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    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    I see, so it's only cheating to immobilise your opponent.

    Sure would be a shame if that was present in another mak'gora.

    Oh wait, immobilising shamanic magic being used completely legitimately in another mak'gora.
    both were magic users and both used magic, they were equal

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The comic version completely changed the fight though. In game, Garrosh was winning, Thrall was on his knees and when the Lich King attacked, they called it off. In the comic (and later mentioned in several novels and short stories), Thrall completely destroyed Garrosh in seconds.
    In-game Thrall was losing, but even if Thrall was winning in other novels or short-stories and even closely one-shots Garrosh, that's whole point of this topic. If someone with magic can literally one-shot someone it's basically a pistol-based duel, except bolts are so large and fast, that Mak'gora isn't even about about combat or honor, it's about who can cast their magic first aka "who can pull the trigger first wins".

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    I do like people cry about Thrall cheating when Garrosh cheated in his duel with Cairne. He didn't know his axe was poisoned but that doesn't change the fact that he still used it to kill Cairne. I guess he did need the poison, since he would have lost to Cairne with out it.

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