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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by gcsmith View Post
    You know deliberately killing innocents is a war crime right? There's a difference between collateral damage and going into Kul'tiras and killing a bunch of workers.
    So what was america's punishment for knowingly and willingly killing all those innocents in hiroshima and nagasaki? Vietnam? Korea? The entire middle east. History is written by the victors, and surprise surprise, the actions of the victors are always justified as "the greater good" and everyone walks away.

    But no, you are right, 50 years on a handful of people involved in mass genocides have been punished........while in their 90s. Murder is illegal too, does that mean you think it isn't extremely common? What about speeding, that's also illegal, but doesn't stop people from doing it. And if you think the dictionary definition of war talks about it being a fair fight between willing participants, you are in for a surprise.

    Long story short, you are wrong.

  2. #142
    They really need to just let the factions join guilds and play together. There's no other way to fix this problem, and Alliance will eventually die off completely if they don't.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Its happening on Ravencrest too so...Factions are dumb anyway. But especially having 40 realms in wow is dumb.
    I'm fine with factions, but I 100% agree with you, it was too many realms back in WoTLK and its too many now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Implement "Against overwhelming odds" for raiding. Allow free transfers horde -> alliance. Wait two towers
    Tiers, see where to go from there.
    This is a really good suggestion honestly. I would add possibly making unique titles/mounts to go with world/region first, and have them separate between alliance and horde.

    It worked for pvp. The ladder on the alliance side was dead until they added faction specific gladiator ranks.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Yes, but there is a point when you simply can not go back anymore without completely sacrificing any form of coherent storyline. At that point you can just stop trying and put NPCs without background everywhere to give you quests without quest text and raid encounters without story or boss emotes.
    That point would be reached is after BfA factions would be abolished. As I said before, only way to really do it would be massive time skip of multiple thousand (more likely ten thousands, because of t he elves and draenei) of years.

    It's time for a reboot either way.
    Does it really have to be complicated? Just have them unite against some threat, like they usually do. But this time use it as an excuse to abolish the factions. They could of done this with any number of plot points in the past, and there will be plenty of opportunity's in the future.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Does it really have to be complicated? Just have them unite against some threat, like they usually do. But this time use it as an excuse to abolish the factions. They could of done this with any number of plot points in the past, and there will be plenty of opportunity's in the future.
    I think the fact they didn't do it when those very obvious crossroads were met, combined with their communication on the topic tells me they have no interest in doing it.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Riistov View Post
    I'm fine with factions, but I 100% agree with you, it was too many realms back in WoTLK and its too many now.

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    This is a really good suggestion honestly. I would add possibly making unique titles/mounts to go with world/region first, and have them separate between alliance and horde.

    It worked for pvp. The ladder on the alliance side was dead until they added faction specific gladiator ranks.
    Yea, good eye on WOTLK - Cause thats when my old vanilla server started dying - Beforehand it was queu time in vanilla, really good faction split, gr8 pvp and 16 world ranked guild in vanilla...etc etc. Then in TBC it started dying out on alliance and in WOTLK it only got worse...Thats also when I first wished Blizzard just closed servers.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Does it really have to be complicated? Just have them unite against some threat, like they usually do. But this time use it as an excuse to abolish the factions. They could of done this with any number of plot points in the past, and there will be plenty of opportunity's in the future.
    Thats the issue - they really can not do that anymore. From an Alliance POV there is no greater threat than the Horde. We have seen in BfA that is not their leader that makes them do evil things, its their inherent nature. It never was only Sylvanas that is an "enemy of life", it is the whole Horde.
    There simply is a point where "there is a greater threat, lets band together" does not work anymore, and when the horde, after dropping the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on one of your cities, commits a genocide in an unprovoked war and then commits atrocity after atrocity (e.g. impaling people on walls and let their children watch as they die in Brennendam), you can not just dissolve faction borders anymore. It already made no sense so bond together agains N'zoth, because the Horde still was the bigger threat in 8.3, it makes no sense to work together in Shadowlands and REMOVING the factions NOW or after Shadowlands is the most incoherent and stupid writing they would ever do.

  8. #148
    Doesnt help that Horde also tends to be the only ones truly relevant story wise.
    I guess if you like reacting to what the Horde does alliance is great
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  9. #149
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    And that was the better part of the alliance storyline. By far.

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    Actually we were talking about mythic raiders in general, not only top 100 huilds
    Just your typical Hordie that will handwave it all away because they love being the faction that is shown so much love...that gets many unique things...that has the best racials.

  10. #150
    Frankly all they need to do is stop being such misers and make transferring to the alliance or low alliance servers free.
    That way they could fix the balance of numbers without needing to screw with the balance of the game.

    However that directly costs them money so of course they'll try anything but that.

    Hell if more incentives are needed make other services free to those transferring as well, like name changes and whatever.

  11. #151
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Thats the issue - they really can not do that anymore. From an Alliance POV there is no greater threat than the Horde. We have seen in BfA that is not their leader that makes them do evil things, its their inherent nature. It never was only Sylvanas that is an "enemy of life", it is the whole Horde.
    There simply is a point where "there is a greater threat, lets band together" does not work anymore, and when the horde, after dropping the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on one of your cities, commits a genocide in an unprovoked war and then commits atrocity after atrocity (e.g. impaling people on walls and let their children watch as they die in Brennendam), you can not just dissolve faction borders anymore. It already made no sense so bond together agains N'zoth, because the Horde still was the bigger threat in 8.3, it makes no sense to work together in Shadowlands and REMOVING the factions NOW or after Shadowlands is the most incoherent and stupid writing they would ever do.
    And it wasn't just Sylvanas...it was Garrosh too.

    After all the Horde went through with Garrosh to follow Sylvanas like they did, except it was even worse because against Garrosh there were plenty of rebels, but with Sylvanas most of the Horde just went with the flow without any resistance. Says to me The Horde is against killing each other but has no problem slaughtering others, even neutral innocent people.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Thats the issue - they really can not do that anymore. From an Alliance POV there is no greater threat than the Horde. We have seen in BfA that is not their leader that makes them do evil things, its their inherent nature. It never was only Sylvanas that is an "enemy of life", it is the whole Horde.
    There simply is a point where "there is a greater threat, lets band together" does not work anymore, and when the horde, after dropping the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on one of your cities, commits a genocide in an unprovoked war and then commits atrocity after atrocity (e.g. impaling people on walls and let their children watch as they die in Brennendam), you can not just dissolve faction borders anymore. It already made no sense so bond together agains N'zoth, because the Horde still was the bigger threat in 8.3, it makes no sense to work together in Shadowlands and REMOVING the factions NOW or after Shadowlands is the most incoherent and stupid writing they would ever do.
    Weird. IRL countries that were at war 1 generation ago are literally allies today... I've heard time moves differently in shadowlands, so in the next xpac we can just skip ahead 50 years and we come home to unified races.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Doesnt help that Horde also tends to be the only ones truly relevant story wise.
    I guess if you like reacting to what the Horde does alliance is great
    Additionally it took up until Undercity to see the horde really lose something in practice and even that turned out to be a trap, after that it has been a bit more balanced.
    (you could mention the wrath-era siege of the Undercity or the Siege of Orgrimmar but the problem is that we never experience the aftermath of it; there's no actual meaningful consequences for us, whereas "current-time" Theramore is a crater)
    Off screen the alliance might be "the superpower" but in game the horde took Hillsbrad, blighted Gilneas, won the battle for Andorhal, bombed Theramore (and some druid grove in Stonetalon), invaded ashenvale and more, and i'm probably forgetting even more, so team blue does look a bit stale.

    Honestly it's no wonder that players keep getting upset over horde losses, the devs seem to forget that "Show, don't tell" extends into the media beyond their games as few bother with books, comics and the like, so most horde might be under the impression that they are constantly winning until suddenly they're not and we're sieging Orgrimmar again.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Except, they did address this already: there will not be cross-faction grouping because it goes against the core of what WoW is.

    Why is it always Alliance players whining about this?
    The alliance is more casual, it's that simple.
    Maybe if people took more time actually playing and improving at the game instead of whining about not getting the 4th version of playable elves to RP with in Golshire you wouldn't have this "issue".

    Which is not an issue in itself as who cares what faction the top guilds are, they don't care either.
    The only way you can force-migrate them back to Alliance is if you actually buffed alliance output by a shit ton.

    And spoiler alert, even if you did that you did not fix shit, you simply switched the sides and now no-one plays horde.
    So congratz.

    Let people play what they want, you are not affected by the top 1% anyways, outside of high-end mythic raiding the factions are 50-50.

    Since most of horde are actually alliance players that faction swapped it isn't as simple as "alliance is casual" especially when it went from near 50/50 to 90/10

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by iperson View Post
    I've heard time moves differently in shadowlands, so in the next xpac we can just skip ahead 50 years and we come home to unified races.
    Because of the elves and Draenei we are talking more about a few thousand of years here, maybe ten thousands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    And it wasn't just Sylvanas...it was Garrosh too.

    After all the Horde went through with Garrosh to follow Sylvanas like they did, except it was even worse because against Garrosh there were plenty of rebels, but with Sylvanas most of the Horde just went with the flow without any resistance. Says to me The Horde is against killing each other but has no problem slaughtering others, even neutral innocent people.
    Yes, thats the main issue here. People forget that canonically only 3 years have passed since the the Siege of Orgrimmar. Three years ago, the majority of the Horde rebelled against Garrosh. At that point it seemed like they were actually good guys, but it turned out, it was only because he also treated them bad.
    Silvanas played her inner political agenda better and the nearly the whole horde stood with her till the end.

    You can easily forgive one crazy warmonger when the whole population stands up against him, but 2 in 3 years, and the second time the whole faction is enjoying the bloodbath - I think not.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Because of the elves and Draenei we are talking more about a few thousand of years here, maybe ten thousands.

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    Yes, thats the main issue here. People forget that canonically only 3 years have passed since the the Siege of Orgrimmar. Three years ago, the majority of the Horde rebelled against Garrosh. At that point it seemed like they were actually good guys, but it turned out, it was only because he also treated them bad.
    Silvanas played her inner political agenda better and the nearly the whole horde stood with her till the end.

    You can easily forgive one crazy warmonger when the whole population stands up against him, but 2 in 3 years, and the second time the whole faction is enjoying the bloodbath - I think not.
    Hopefully many still stand with her, death to the alliance!

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Because of the elves and Draenei we are talking more about a few thousand of years here, maybe ten thousands.
    You do realize they aren't real don't you?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Teamrandom View Post
    Recently I started looking for a new guild and I was quite suprised to see that on my server which is one of the highest populated EU Alliance realms probably 15 out of top 20 raiding guilds has moved or is moving to Horde on either Kazzak/Twisting Nether/Draenor etc. I was wondering what is the reason for this.

    Surely it is not going to make things better with the faction imbalance at the moment but I think there is anoher reason which might be bigger number of customers for PvE boosting. Does anyone have any "internal" info on what is happening ? This is not a coincidence of just a couple of people deciding to play Horde because they like it - it is a massive migration of high end raiding guilds and there must be a specific reason for this.
    It's because Ion has been too busy designing cool stuff for the Horde over the past few years.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Krimzin View Post
    Not gonna matter in the next the expansion after SL, Factions will be cross so anyone can join any guild.
    You were there for that memo too?



    OP it’s a bigger talent pool even CTR which had a bunch of high level raid teams has become a social guild with only a couple teams due to the lack of good players

  20. #160
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Implement "Against overwhelming odds" for raiding. Allow free transfers horde -> alliance. Wait two towers
    Tiers, see where to go from there.
    Not a bad idea. And while we are on it, make racials only effect secondary things like professions. No dmg increases, no reductions or cc effects.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

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