Bonus rolls are removed in Shadowlands

[TheRevenantHero]

Removing bonus rolls helps literally NOBODY. It actually hurts more people. Casual players have now lost one of their bad luck prevention mechanics. The only reason this happened was because the elitist mythic raiders hate that anyone who doesn't do mythic raiding has a chance at loot. So Blizzard listened to them and are now punishing anyone who doesn't do mythic raiding. I'm starting to feel like Blizzard is trying to make Shadowlands the worst expansion ever.

[arkanon]

The additional systems, if you mean Titanforging and corruption, are irrelevant, as bonus rolls were in effect far before either of those (or before warforging became such a rampant issue).

The only confusing part I think here is your response honestly. Nowhere did I say that previously there was less gear. I was calling out the "random" comment you had.

With bonus rolls, there was SOME control to what you get. You throw a coin at a boss, you would know you could only get gear that the boss drops.
And you could somewhat game it, knowing that chances are rolls 1-3 would whiff, so when you're on your fourth roll, save it because bad luck protection would probably kick in past that.

This is abundantly clear with bosses like Ra-den, if you keep bonus rolling ONLY Ra-den, you'll get gear from him with it.

This, however, WON'T happen with the chest in Shadowlands. Instead, you could end up with something stupid like getting 3 pieces of gear from bosses you didn't even need.

While ALSO getting gimped because you pushed up to 2.4k rating or did several M+15s.

Right now, you get the chest from Conquest capping scaling on your rating. You also get one for pushing M+. So that's already two drops a week at least.

In Shadowlands, it doesn't matter if you push M+ and PvP for gear. Both are tied to the same chest now. So your extra efforts don't even reap real reward anymore, since you're still only getting one piece of gear.


And to clarify again, my original response was towards someone claiming even with the changes, you'll be getting MORE loot a week from the chest change. Which is just flat out false.



...you DO realize that wasn't an argument, no? My point was exactly as you just said lol, a bit weird to miss that. To claim subs reflect the bonus roll system is ridiculous.

So your argument is "im ignoring that core part of your argument because i dont like it and it weakens my argument, so please stop discussing BfA. ANYWAY, heres an example from BfA". You seem to be struggling with something quite simple - at least i thought it was quite simple, maybe "more, random loot" would make more sense to you? I am not suggesting that the distribution has higher entropy. I was talking QUANTITY of loot, not "randomness" of the item received, although that is a factor as well.

To me, a clear, linear gear distribution method is far superior in every way when compared to randomness on top of randomness. Although, for some reason, you refuse to acknowledge those additional layers of randomness, because they have not existed for the entirety of the bonus rolls life, something I find to be in extremely poor faith.

[SirReal]

I like it. Good change.

[arkanon]

Bonus rolls helped literally NOBODY. It actually hurts more people. .

I agree 100% The reality is, everyone was on equal footing then (now) and everyone will be on equal footing again in SL. Mythic raiders will continue to have better loot than heroic raider, heroic raiders better than normal, and so on. Nothing is changing. You seem to have confused bonus rolls with the additional systems like WF/TF that allowed players to obtain loot that far exceeded their skill level.

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I like it. Good change.

And i agree, and apparently so do many others.

[LilSaihah]

Seems fine to me, to be honest. Instead of bonus rolls there should be crafted gear to fill slots that you're having a hard time filling.

[Jester Joe]

So your argument is "im ignoring that core part of your argument because i dont like it and it weakens my argument, so please stop discussing BfA. ANYWAY, heres an example from BfA". You seem to be struggling with something quite simple - at least i thought it was quite simple, maybe "more, random loot" would make more sense to you? I am not suggesting that the distribution has higher entropy. I was talking QUANTITY of loot, not "randomness" of the item received, although that is a factor as well.

To me, a clear, linear gear distribution method is far superior in every way when compared to randomness on top of randomness. Although, for some reason, you refuse to acknowledge those additional layers of randomness, because they have not existed for the entirety of the bonus rolls life, something I find to be in extremely poor faith.

So, let's recap this.

1) you really have no intention of actually discussing this but rather insisting that YOUR idea was right.
2) You jumped on my comment saying that "It's flat out false that the new system is more gear" to try to push your idea that there was "less randomness" which has nothing to do with what I said, nor is it true either as I outlined.
3) You ignored any rebuttal, and continue to insist you're right.

That's the gist of this, yeah?

The one who mentioned randomness was you, not I. I was pointing out that another poster was being dishonest by saying that the new shadowlands system allows MORE gear than the current system with bonus rolls. A strawman doesn't suit your argument. It's fine to prefer the change, I'm not here to change your mind on that. But don't put words in my mouth and try to strawman.

[arkanon]

Seems fine to me, to be honest. Instead of bonus rolls there should be crafted gear to fill slots that you're having a hard time filling.

And there is! you're in luck! Considering the endless sources of loot in WoW now, those who are willing to put the time in and actually play the game, instead of playing the lottery, will get the gear!

[Dakara]

I can see why people are unhappy, but personally it doesn't bother me at all.

Honestly, I can't recall the last time my main actually bonus rolled a BiS item (usually Weapons/Trinkets) during progression.... more often than not it would be double AP or if I actually got Bonus loot it wasn't the item I wanted.

Probably the most use I've had out of Bonus rolls is on my less played Alts. During farm, those Alts aren't geared from M+ so when it's my turn for an Alt run, I use all 5 saved up bonus rolls + hearth out for another 2 (7 total) and can usually get 1 or 2 extra items from the Raid. Combined with Mains loot trading late in the Tier, it's a good way to Gear up an Alt in Heroic gear.

[Jester Joe]

And there is! you're in luck! Considering the endless sources of loot in WoW now, those who are willing to put the time in and actually play the game, instead of playing the lottery, will get the gear!

There was always crafted gear.

The people who are "willing to put in the time" are punished harder now due to this change though, as I said.

A player RIGHT NOW who pushes raiding, mythic+, and PvP would be rolling in loot yes.

But they deserve it for doing that much.

In Shadowlands? PvP and Mythic+ are bound to the same chest. And I won't hold my breath for crafted gear being worth anything since it was mostly bland for as long as I can recall, and if anything it's just going to go towards legendaries since as far as I recall, you need crafted gear to make the legendaries but that's about it.

[Subrias]

it wont be over in a week since raid is gonna be delayed as always. this 100% ruins gameplay, taking away from players who are unlucky as fuck with loot. it also hurts transmog hunting.

thats incorrect. you get up to 9 different options from your box at the end of the week (3 from raid, 3 from m+, 3 from pvp) so you are basically guaranteed an item upgrade every week until you dont need upgrades anymore.

[arkanon]

There was always crafted gear.

The people who are "willing to put in the time" are punished harder now due to this change though, as I said.

A player RIGHT NOW who pushes raiding, mythic+, and PvP would be rolling in loot yes.

But they deserve it for doing that much.

In Shadowlands? PvP and Mythic+ are bound to the same chest. And I won't hold my breath for crafted gear being worth anything since it was mostly bland for as long as I can recall, and if anything it's just going to go towards legendaries since as far as I recall, you need crafted gear to make the legendaries but that's about it.

Crafted legendaries you say? Hmmmm. Strange thing to follow up your comment about crafted gear in SL "not being worth anything" and being "bland" - careful, your agenda is showing.

[Jester Joe]

thats incorrect. you get up to 9 different options from your box at the end of the week (3 from raid, 3 from m+, 3 from pvp) so you are basically guaranteed an item upgrade every week until you dont need upgrades anymore.

Unless they drastically revamp the way the chest works and have some sort of internal bad luck protection based on your item level in different slots, it's very possible you'll get loot still each week that isn't useful.

Up to 9 options would take a hell of a lot of work, mind you. Clearing the raid is probably the most feasible honestly, so that's a net 3 options which can only be from the raid.
The M+ options to get the full 3 would require you do 10 15s, since it checks by your 4th and 10th lowest for the 2nd and 3rd choice.

And the PvP one used to be its own chest mind you, and also give the ability to just upgrade gear further that you already have (Like if you have your BiS trinket currently from PvP, you could just keep upgrading it as your rating rises).

Speaking personally, chances are most likely I'll only end up with the 3 options from the raid, and maybe 2 from M+. The full scope of 9 options is a bit much for the player to achieve without going above and beyond. I wouldn't be surprised if the average semi-serious player ends up around the same, maybe 6-7 tops.

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Crafted legendaries you say? Hmmmm. Strange thing to follow up your comment about crafted gear in SL "not being worth anything" and being "bland" - careful, your agenda is showing.

Again, you seem to not be able to discuss this in a genuine way.

Turning a craft piece of gear into a legendary isn't actually using the craft gear. It's really a silly stretch, since turning it into a legendary makes it a legendary item at that point, not a craft piece. It isn't a piece of crafted gear with an affix on it for the legendary gear. It's flat out THAT legendary now in that slot.

So you'll end up with players running around with that single legendary, and probably little to no other crafted pieces of gear.

To tack onto this as an edit-

I double checked by googling, because I wanted to be sure the beta wasn't just the way it worked for testing.

But the crafted gear that gets turned into legendaries are basic white quality items that aren't even usable.
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legen...nds#base-items

So again I repeat, not usable in the way you seem to be insisting.

[munkeyinorbit]

Unless they drastically revamp the way the chest works and have some sort of internal bad luck protection based on your item level in different slots, it's very possible you'll get loot still each week that isn't useful.

Up to 9 options would take a hell of a lot of work, mind you. Clearing the raid is probably the most feasible honestly, so that's a net 3 options which can only be from the raid.
The M+ options to get the full 3 would require you do 10 15s, since it checks by your 4th and 10th lowest for the 2nd and 3rd choice.

And the PvP one used to be its own chest mind you, and also give the ability to just upgrade gear further that you already have (Like if you have your BiS trinket currently from PvP, you could just keep upgrading it as your rating rises).

Speaking personally, chances are most likely I'll only end up with the 3 options from the raid, and maybe 2 from M+. The full scope of 9 options is a bit much for the player to achieve without going above and beyond. I wouldn't be surprised if the average semi-serious player ends up around the same, maybe 6-7 tops.

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Again, you seem to not be able to discuss this in a genuine way.

Turning a craft piece of gear into a legendary isn't actually using the craft gear. It's really a silly stretch, since turning it into a legendary makes it a legendary item at that point, not a craft piece. It isn't a piece of crafted gear with an affix on it for the legendary gear. It's flat out THAT legendary now in that slot.

So you'll end up with players running around with that single legendary, and probably little to no other crafted pieces of gear.

So you can make a legendary without using an item you craft? Again with the contradictions. What is it? You can't use any of the items you get from crafting or you can use items from crafting in a piece of gear that you will use. You seem stressed because you are making no sense.

[arkanon]

Again, you seem to not be able to discuss this in a genuine way.

Turning a craft piece of gear into a legendary isn't actually using the craft gear. It's really a silly stretch, since turning it into a legendary makes it a legendary item at that point, not a craft piece. It isn't a piece of crafted gear with an affix on it for the legendary gear. It's flat out THAT legendary now in that slot.

So you'll end up with players running around with that single legendary, and probably little to no other crafted pieces of gear.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of the crafted legendaries in SL. Head over to wowhead.com and read their write-up on the process, its very well written and clear. Considering that the post you replied to (even though i was having a discussion with a different user) was in response to them saying they hoped crafted gear would allow them to fill slots they were having trouble filling, which is a fantastic use of a crafted legendary, but you get to fill the gap!

[Lora]

thats incorrect. you get up to 9 different options from your box at the end of the week (3 from raid, 3 from m+, 3 from pvp) so you are basically guaranteed an item upgrade every week until you dont need upgrades anymore.

guaranteed best stats? press F to doubt

[uncl55]

Never seen so many sheeples cheering at blizzard removing things.. its sad really.
How about you remove TIMEGATING to flying? Ahh ok thats no no blizzard right, better remove something useful.

[arkanon]

guaranteed best stats? press F to doubt

holy dusty strawman! You quote them, and then immediately misquote them? They said an UPGRADE, nothing about guaranteed best stats.

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Never seen so many sheeples cheering at blizzard removing things.. its sad really.
How about you remove TIMEGATING to flying? Ahh ok thats no no blizzard right, better remove something useful.

Removing something that, according to this thread, a strong majoirty disliked, is a good thing. Stop pretending they removed content or abilities or specs or something.

[Jester Joe]

So you can make a legendary without using an item you craft? Again with the contradictions. What is it? You can't use any of the items you get from crafting or you can use items from crafting in a piece of gear that you will use. You seem stressed because you are making no sense.

You seem to have a very poor understanding of the crafted legendaries in SL. Head over to wowhead.com and read their write-up on the process, its very well written and clear. Considering that the post you replied to (even though i was having a discussion with a different user) was in response to them saying they hoped crafted gear would allow them to fill slots they were having trouble filling, which is a fantastic use of a crafted legendary, but you get to fill the gap!

I suggest both of you re-read it.

The crafted gear you used to make legendaries isn't even actually usable gear.

It's white quality trash basically that's used to house the power of the gear.
I even edited the post to reflect that.

The crafted gear scales up to 200 currently otherwise, and you can check Wowhead for that, and that's not close to being competitive gear.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/wow-s...ession-updates

I genuinely don't get how you're both parading this as if you know better, while not understanding the system.

[munkeyinorbit]

I suggest both of you re-read it.

The crafted gear you used to make legendaries isn't even actually usable gear.

It's white quality trash basically that's used to house the power of the gear.
I even edited the post to reflect that.

The crafted gear scales up to 200 currently otherwise, and you can check Wowhead for that, and that's not close to being competitive gear.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/wow-s...ession-updates

I genuinely don't get how you're both parading this as if you know better, while not understanding the system.

You said that there are no items worth using. I said there was. Your source even said it in black and white. Nowhere to shift the goal posts. Thank you for confirming what I said. Just need an apology from you.

[arkanon]

I suggest both of you re-read it.

The crafted gear you used to make legendaries isn't even actually usable gear.

It's white quality trash basically that's used to house the power of the gear.
I even edited the post to reflect that.

The crafted gear scales up to 200 currently otherwise, and you can check Wowhead for that, and that's not close to being competitive gear.

https://www.wowhead.com/guides/wow-s...ession-updates

I genuinely don't get how you're both parading this as if you know better, while not understanding the system.

What on earth are you flapping on about? The crafted items are reagents, used for the......CRAFTING of your legendaries. You are making an absolute fool out of yourself claiming the legendaries are not craftable. It's honestly really embarrassing.