Phase 7: Classic+

[Ielenia]

Classic inarguably has more content.

What you wrote there simply objectively wrong. Let's check the content Classic WoW has with the content Modern Wow has:

PvP:

• Classic:
  • World PvP.
  • Battlegrounds.
• Modern:
  • World PvP.
  • Battlegrounds.
  • Arenas.

PvE:

• Classic:
  • Leveling.
  • Dungeons.
  • Raids.
• Modern:
  • Leveling.
  • Dungeons.
  • Raids.
  • World Events.
  • World Quests.

Miscenaleous:

• Classic:
  • ...
• Modern:
  • Achievements.
  • Transmogrification.

And remember your own words:

You don't have to like that content, you can argue the content is mostly fairly simple, but it is more content.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What you wrote there simply objectively wrong. Let's check the content Classic WoW has with the content Modern Wow has:

I think it's pretty clear at this point, to anyone not preoccupied with delusions, that Classic doesn't have more content. Can't believe the discussion went on for as long as it did. Kudos to the patient people combatting the misinformation.

Bring on the true Classic+; The Burning Crusade!

[Tojara]

I'm not even sure how anybody can claim that classic has more end game content? Do people not realize the entire reason they added heroic mode dungeons in TBC, challenge modes in MoP/WoD and M+ in Legion/BFA is because dungeons are a large investment of resources that quickly loses relevance? Vanilla dungeons, aside from a couple of them lose relevance incredibly quickly. You can claim that you're doing the 'same' thing every 6 months doing the same dungeons in BFA, but after the initial gear surge when hitting 60, all you're doing dungeons for is righteous orbs, buffs in DMN, Scholomance for dark runes, or DM east for herbs/ore.

There are currently 11 dungeons in BFA and they're all relevant throughout the entire expansion. The same can't be said about classic dungeons. You get your gear and you essentially never have to do those dungeons again. Leveling up dungeons and dungeons being used exclusively for starter gear has aged so badly, and there's clear reasons why they've attempted to make dungeons more and more relevant over the years.

People said it themselves that just because you don't "like the content" (in regards to classic), that you can't just ignore it. Just because people don't like M+, arena, or multiple raid difficulties doesn't mean those don't exist lol. Yeah, it better serves your argument if you just erase everything that the current iteration of the game does that you don't like, while simultaneously counting everything that classic does as 'content'.

Classic+ is literally TBC whether people like it or not. Watching people cry/whine about what is/isn't classic on these forums is hilarious, and to think that anybody could come together for a unilateral vision of what Classic+ would be just isn't going to happen. People are constantly shifting goal posts on Classic about what's considered "hard" and "just you wait until the next raid".

[Moozart]

Dungeons
- All dungeons (including non-60 ones) now have a level 60 (Heroic) option
- Substantially increased HP and damage in Heroic Dungeons
- New cosmetic rewards for Heroic Dungeons: armor/weapon recolours, pets, mounts, tabards, titles, bigger backpacks, etc.

Raids
- All raids now have a level 60 (Heroic) option
- HP and damage of all raid mobs increased by up to 100% (earlier raids buffed more than later raids)
- New cosmetic rewards for Heroic Raids: tier recolours, pets, mounts, tabards, titles, bigger backpacks, etc.

Class balance updates
- Underperforming specs are given a damage/healing/tanking aura buff that works in Heroic Dungeons and Heroic Raids only.


Would you be on board with a Phase 7 like this? It'd mostly be numbers tuning and adding in rewards that are already on file. It'd also keep the integrity of the rest of the game in tact as any changes are within their own bubble.

Its amazing how much effort you guys put into stuff that isn't going to happen.

[Jurwi]

Its amazing how much effort you guys put into stuff that isn't going to happen.

Well, yea, people also put a lot of effort into life even though everyone eventually just dies.

[Th3Scourge]

TBC is Classic+

[TJ]

Well, yea, people also put a lot of effort into life even though everyone eventually just dies.

That's deep, man. Do whatever makes you happy and what you enjoy, if that turns out to be video games and talking about them, so be it.

[Thundering]

Classic+ would be cool, if tbc comes around i think i will just go back to private servers because the money you pay to blizz will only go to retail and screw that.

[Nak88]

TBC is Classic+

+100 10chars

[Deferionus]

It definitely wasn't the same ever since. It became more mainstream. Less hardcore than Vanilla. I think that's when the dumbing down of the whole gaming industry started to accelerate.

I would say WOTLK is what did that. BC had stuff like the attunement quests for Karazhan and BT, granted they were eventually removed, that kept it in line with vanilla. WOTLK you had people just aoeing 5 mans and the real shift to the current design philopshy. WOTLK was still a good expansion, you could just really see the design change with it.

BC did introduce arenas which was a huge catalyst for class design becoming homogenized so everyone had the tools to use in PvP, but WOTLK was the first expac you saw that in also.

Put simply, BC was an improvement on the original game. You could say it was vanilla done right.

[Unholyground]

My solution was to have 10 paragon levels once at max level. Each point is gives you +5 to any still you choose in the skill tree allowing you to have a lot of freedom to do things like defense cap as any tank, get extra talent rows if you increase a specializations skill level, professions allowing you to craft new things unavailable to normal max level professions. Essentially you can be a unique version of whatever class you play.

[Cæli]

TBC is Classic+

the only and definite truth regarding classic+

[Viindi]

Why would you trust them to do a proper classic + experience when you look at the direction the game has taken over the years. As many people have already said, TBC is just the best progression from classic tbh.

[Yriel]

WOTLK you had people just aoeing 5 mans and the real shift to the current design philopshy.

Nah that started in TBC. Paladin aoe tanking made that possible. I still remember how at the start of the expansion everyone was still marking mobs and sheeping, rogue-stunning etc. was happening and from the middle onwards, when Paladins became common on Horde-side everything was just aoe spamming, even rushing started there or at least that was the first time i noticed it in WoW.

[Kralljin]

Nah that started in TBC. Paladin aoe tanking made that possible. I still remember how at the start of the expansion everyone was still marking mobs and sheeping, rogue-stunning etc. was happening and from the middle onwards, when Paladins became common on Horde-side everything was just aoe spamming, even rushing started there or at least that was the first time i noticed it in WoW.

Heroics got nerfed multiple times and people with T5 / T6 gear started to do Heroics solely for badges, as 2.3 / 2.4 added a lot of valueable items to the vendor.

If you couldn't find a Prot pally, you couldn't just AoE your way through the dungeon as Warriors and Feral didn't even come close to the AoE threat of a Prot Pally, not to mention that less specs were capable of actually doing decent AoE damage (which also became more widespread in Wotlk).
The value of this is significantly diminished if you don't have enough dps that can actually take advantage of an AoE situation.

You could also say that Classic "started" it because people are able to powerlevel in dungeons because Mages, Warlocks and Priests just AoE half of the dungeon.

People were already aware of this in TBC, but couldn't abuse it as hard for the reasons mentioned above, with Wotlk however, every tank became capable of doing AoE dps, more dps could do AoE dps, heroics were a lot easier and any tank could just pop a defensive CD whenever there actually was a tricky pull.

It was a more niche strategy due to the imposed requirements, but in Wotlk it became the Modus Operandi for dungeons.

[Deferionus]

Nah that started in TBC. Paladin aoe tanking made that possible. I still remember how at the start of the expansion everyone was still marking mobs and sheeping, rogue-stunning etc. was happening and from the middle onwards, when Paladins became common on Horde-side everything was just aoe spamming, even rushing started there or at least that was the first time i noticed it in WoW.

You are right overall, but I had to get t5 gear on my paladin before I was able to do it. When people were still progressing through Karazhan/Gruuls/Magtheridon my paladin did not have enough gear to aoe tank. Karazhan geared heroics would still kill you without CC. In WOTLK you could aoe tank it from day 1 and your gear only impacted the clear speed. Additionally even with my gear we were still ccing trash in raids and I don't recall ever using CC on trash in WOTLK. Thus, I worded it as "designed" because it felt as though Blizzard intentionally did not make the design decision to make CC required.

This is further supported by the fact that on Cataclysm launch you again required CC. AoE tanking was a death sentence. Then players whined until Blizzard nerfed it and AoE tanking has been the norm since.

[vindicatorx]

Well, yea, people also put a lot of effort into life even though everyone eventually just dies.

not even the same ballpark. The stupid lazy idea of classic + is not going to happen and I think the majority of players do not want either. The reason most of us either no longer play retail or never did is the whole concept of Mythic 5 mans is simply lazy development. I have zero interest in running the same 5 mans over and over at a slightly harder difficulty hoping some piece with the optimal stats drops. That is not fun, it is not engaging, it's mindless repetition. Same thing with dailies it's designed to make you waste a lot of time.

[Tronski]

I think your suggestion is the pragmatic but safe approach
The other, more safe approach would be to release TBC

What I would want (Which would never happen) Would be to make completly new zones / dungeons / expansions
Try for a minutte to let your mind run wild what they could be, absolutly insanely cool stuff / gameplay could be possible / diffrent wow experiance

What would be more interesting yet, and cheaper to implement, is to follow the release schedule into TBC and WotLK, but keeping the slow-paced playstyle of Classic.

And/or exclude Arenas as a feature.
The implementation of arena initiated the arms race between classes and the need for homogenization. Everyone had to be able to interrupt or disarm, everybody had to have instant cast, survivability etc etc, which eventually made WoW the clickfest that is retail.

I believe that the slow pace is one of the key factors that make Classic feels good to play.

- - - Updated - - -

An interesting perspective - so you believe BC was the death of wow? Or just the beginning of the end?

The implementation of ranked arena created a direct need for balance and homogenization. Further down the road they figured that playstyles had to be more complex in order to be more rewarding. And at one point that complexity came to mean 2 skills per second and trinkets off the GCD.

[luc54]

I believe that the slow pace is one of the key factors that make Classic feels good to play.

- - - Updated - - -



The implementation of ranked arena created a direct need for balance and homogenization. Further down the road they figured that playstyles had to be more complex in order to be more rewarding. And at one point that complexity came to mean 2 skills per second and trinkets off the GCD.

Really? I personally feel its' the opposite. It's like going car racing with cars that go max 10km/h. It gets very boring as you don't need good reaction times. It also makes game much easier to point where it's not very exciting.

[Tronski]

Really? I personally feel its' the opposite. It's like going car racing with cars that go max 10km/h. It gets very boring as you don't need good reaction times. It also makes game much easier to point where it's not very exciting.

If I feel the need to spam buttons non-stop for 5+ minutes bossfights I just play Retail

But I personally find that more tedious than exciting. It's not that Classic isn't tedious, but it's more about the people than the action.
Granted, bosses in Classic could have had twice the HP they currently have and that would have been a nice change, and world buffs could have been disabled in raids, but I do like really really enjoy the lack of tight enrage timers. Onyxia being killable by 3 people with enough time is a good example of how a few very skilled people can compensate for half the raid being dead. In turn this means that I don't have to find a guild of hardcore elitists in order to play the hardest content, I can just play with the people I want to play with, and if some of them has be carried, then that's not a hassle at all.

Fun fact: our server has one guild of hardcore elitists, and literally the whole server does everything they can in order to sabotage their attempts at glory and world records. I.e. delaying AQ opening and making sure they don't get world bosses. They're the laughing stock of our server because they try unnecessary hard.