9.0 General Discussion

[therumblings]

The cycle was broken before Argus died.

Is there any direct proof of this? We know up until at least 7.0 it couldn't have broke due to Ysera and Ursoc.

[gunner_recall]

Is there any direct proof of this? We know up until at least 7.0 it couldn't have broke due to Ysera and Ursoc.

Maybe I'm misremembering it, and I'm trying to find a source now, but I'm pretty sure it was broken before we went to Argus.

But now that I'm thinking about that, I'm probably wrong.

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and say I'm wrong.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Is there any direct proof of this? We know up until at least 7.0 it couldn't have broke due to Ysera and Ursoc.

From what I've head, in Ardenweald, it's mentioned Ysera was one of the last souls to arrive before it broke. A loooooooot more people died between then and Argus, so it would have had to have happened before then.

[razorpax]

It can proc off auto attacks with a 6 second cd and when a mirror gets eaten you get mana back/brain freeze/fire blast cd reduced but

The mirrors are a lie.

Skellingtons are eternal.

eh for arcane its still bone daddy

interesting for fire especially with the conduit

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I think they are going to go for the cosmology aspect and have the "big battery" be Argus the Death Worldsoul that we killed being what fueled Zovaal. As a kind of reverse of how Argus was a battery for Sargeras.

Poor Argus can't catch a break.

Arthas will definitely be important though but I don't think he's being used by the Jailer, more that he will be instrumental in taking down Zovaal and Sylvanas as penance.

hes connected to zoval but i dont think hes being used by him

also dead titans go weird

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From what I've head, in Ardenweald, it's mentioned Ysera was one of the last souls to arrive before it broke. A loooooooot more people died between then and Argus, so it would have had to have happened before then.

but Ursoc died after ysera

im going to say the machine broke once we killed helya in helheim and released Odyn

[gunner_recall]

eh for arcane its still bone daddy

interesting for fire especially with the conduit

It's definitely a lot better for fire than frost or arcane, but honestly just changing it to proc off auto attacks already makes it better.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

but Ursoc died after ysera

im going to say the machine broke once we killed helya in helheim and released Odyn

Yeeeeeah, the timelines don't really line up.
But, then again, this is Blizzard writing we're talking about. So who really knows?

[formerShandalay]

Tin foil hat time!

As we all know certain souls have tons more anima than others *cough* orc battery *cough*.

So to the point Uther dropping Arthas directly into the maw was the first step for Zovaal the Jailer to begin his plan of escape.

Arthas soul should produce be the equivalent of a nuclear reactor in terms of anima production.

Arthas being dropped in and avoiding detection by the eternal ones means they don’t know Zovaal has fat battery to fuel his plans.

Uther seriously fucked up.

Tin foil hat off.

I do think that something was up even before then. My guess is, the Jailer wiggled himself out of his chains and maybe some other stuff that kept him contained for a very long time, bit by bit. Maybe at first only by proxy with his dreadlords, making pacts and deals with everyone, secretly skimming a little power from all of their "allies" and feeding it to the Jailer. Getting an eye from Odyn with the help of Mueh'zala. Maybe he secretly even "helped" Odyn with turning Helya and creating his own realm of the dead. I think he also 'helped' Ner'zhul and later Arthas, so they would turn against the Legion (all by themselves, as it seemed, so the dreadlords didn't have to expose themselves).
And maybe yea, Frostmourne was made to collect as many souls as the Lich King could feed it, so they'd all go to the Maw (or at least the pieces of the souls that were in there), when Frostmourne shattered and feed the Jailer even more. And getting Arthas himself surely helped too. But I also think the Jailer was already powerful enough to meddle with the other realms of the Shadowlands directly too at that point, because I think Devos's doubts didn't become so bad so fast all by themselves. She may have had doubts, but it escalated too quickly into full on "Forget the Maw-power, take your anger out on the middle man (Arthas)!" to be really natural for someone from Bastion. He maybe wasn't powerful enough to actually attack, but - a bit like Yogg Saron - at least powerful enough to whisper and meddle in secret.

[gunner_recall]

Yeeeeeah, the timelines don't really line up.
But, then again, this is Blizzard writing we're talking about. So who really knows?

It's also possible that Ysera has a different kind of connection to the Dream than the Wild Gods and that causes them to bypass the Cycle of Death.

So Ysera could have been brought before the Arbiter, but she wasn't necessarily the last soul to arrive in one of the afterlives.

Alternatively, Blizz forgot their own timeline.

[formerShandalay]

It's also possible that Ysera has a different kind of connection to the Dream than the Wild Gods and that causes them to bypass the Cycle of Death.

So Ysera could have been brought before the Arbiter, but she wasn't necessarily the last soul to arrive in one of the afterlives.

Alternatively, Blizz forgot their own timeline.

Ysera was taken to Ardenweald by Elune directly, without going through the Arbiter, iirc. So there may even have already been something wrong.
I also heard a nice theory (I can't remember from which channel it was, I'll try to look it up) that maybe it's the great trees and world trees connect the emerald dream directly to Ardenweald and Ursoc and the beings bound to the ED don't go through the Arbiter, but go to Ardenweald directly, which would make it so that Ursoc for example could have arrived in Ardenweald no problem, even though the Arbiter was already broken. Sylvanas put a stop to that when she burned down Teldrassil. There is one problem with that and that is Nordrassil, which is explained with Nordrassil already having burned once with the help of wisps (so dead Nightelves) which severed its connection to Ardenweald, but not to the ED.

[gunner_recall]

Ysera was taken to Ardenweald by Elune directly, without going through the Arbiter, iirc. So there may even have already been something wrong.
I also heard a nice theory (I can't remember from which channel it was, I'll try to look it up) that maybe it's the great trees and world trees connect the emerald dream directly to Ardenweald and Ursoc and the beings bound to the ED don't go through the Arbiter, but go to Ardenweald directly, which would make it so that Ursoc for example could have arrived in Ardenweald no problem, even though the Arbiter was already broken. Sylvanas put a stop to that when she burned down Teldrassil. There is one problem with that and that is Nordrassil, which is explained with Nordrassil already having burned once with the help of wisps (so dead Nightelves) which severed its connection to Ardenweald, but not to the ED.

That's probably the case with Ysera, since she got shot with moonbeams when she died.

And the trees being tied to Ardenweald makes a lot of sense, actually. Nordrassil lost it's connection when Malfurion sacrificed the Dragon Aspects's enchantments on it when he blew the Horn of Cenarius. Vordrassil was never blessed by the Aspects so it probably didn't have the same connection and Shaladrassil was corrupted by the Nightmare so it was probably the last link to Ardenweald and was probably weakened by it's corruption, or maybe it was never blessed in the first place. And that would leave Teldrassil, which got toasted.



Unrelated: https://www.wowhead.com/news=318151/...ic-appearances

[TheFirstOnes]

I. Love. Torghast.

[TigTone]

That's probably the case with Ysera, since she got shot with moonbeams when she died.

And the trees being tied to Ardenweald makes a lot of sense, actually. Nordrassil lost it's connection when Malfurion sacrificed the Dragon Aspects's enchantments on it when he blew the Horn of Cenarius. Vordrassil was never blessed by the Aspects so it probably didn't have the same connection and Shaladrassil was corrupted by the Nightmare so it was probably the last link to Ardenweald and was probably weakened by it's corruption, or maybe it was never blessed in the first place. And that would leave Teldrassil, which got toasted.



Unrelated: https://www.wowhead.com/news=318151/...ic-appearances

Damn you Skellingtons and your cosmetics don’t tempt me from the Red

[LemonDemonGirl]

That's probably the case with Ysera, since she got shot with moonbeams when she died.

And the trees being tied to Ardenweald makes a lot of sense, actually. Nordrassil lost it's connection when Malfurion sacrificed the Dragon Aspects's enchantments on it when he blew the Horn of Cenarius. Vordrassil was never blessed by the Aspects so it probably didn't have the same connection and Shaladrassil was corrupted by the Nightmare so it was probably the last link to Ardenweald and was probably weakened by it's corruption, or maybe it was never blessed in the first place. And that would leave Teldrassil, which got toasted.



Unrelated: https://www.wowhead.com/news=318151/...ic-appearances

Well RIP potentiall Ardenweald raid then

Also, I can't be Night Fae and use a Necrolord weapon? Damn

[gunner_recall]

Damn you Skellingtons and your cosmetics don’t tempt me from the Red

Join the Spooky Squad

We got skulls. And bones.

Well RIP potentiall Ardenweald raid then

Not necessarily but it does mean it has a higher possibility of being Drust themed.


Maybe even troll themed depending on what happens.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, there is still potential for an "Ardenweald" raid. Mostly in regards with the Plane of Life.

[TigTone]

What’s the troll raid pattern?

Feeling to lazy to google
It.

[TheFirstOnes]

"beyond titan level"
yeeeah no

Uhm...

Yeah? When your main villain is advertised as a guy who's Titan++ Level, and you're basically fighting guys that are on Par with Titans (And no, them ruling over a Cosmology doesn't automatically mean they're "on par" with Titans. Blizzard was 100% talking about Power in their statement), then you're 100% going to be Titan level. Reminder: Titan's aren't shit. The Dreadlords mind-fucked their most powerful warrior with ease, even with the power-gap.

[Ersula]

"beyond titan level"
yeeeah no

Because they haven't done much to establish whatever made the Jailer deserve the maw before the others decided to imprison him there, I keep expecting the twist to be that the other covenant leaders falsely imprisoned him because they wanted to rule the shadowlands, but I heard the theory that the Jailer is supposed to be the consciousness that existed in the Lich King's mantle before Nerzhul, as in, the Jailer is the *real* lich king, which makes sense & would be adequate characterization for a big villain. I don't think "It's Wrath of the Lich King, but for real this time" would go over badly.

But the other theory, that the Jailer could be another Titan that volunteered to rule the shadowlands when the Titans were just starting to organize the cosmos, could still be true with either of these other theories. Otherwise, why would he be given the moniker "Jailer" instead of "Prisoner"

[formerShandalay]

Because they haven't done much to establish whatever made the Jailer deserve the maw before the others decided to imprison him there, I keep expecting the twist to be that the other covenant leaders falsely imprisoned him because they wanted to rule the shadowlands, but I heard the theory that the Jailer is supposed to be the consciousness that existed in the Lich King's mantle before Nerzhul, as in, the Jailer is the *real* lich king, which makes sense & would be adequate characterization for a big villain. I don't think "It's Wrath of the Lich King, but for real this time" would go over badly.

But the other theory, that the Jailer could be another Titan that volunteered to rule the shadowlands when the Titans were just starting to organize the cosmos, could still be true with either of these other theories. Otherwise, why would he be given the moniker "Jailer" instead of "Prisoner"

There is one twist that might make the jailing of the Jailer by the others an actual mistake. If those dreadlords work for Denathrius and not Zovaal, they may have convinced the other Eternals that they were trying to upset the cosmic balance for Zovaal instead of Denathrius, which would mean Denathrius framed Zovaal (and of course imprisoned him together with the rest of the Eternals). Maybe he later even went to Zovaal and told him what a huuuuge mistake it had been and that he was sorry, sent his dreadlords to 'help' him get revenge, so Denathrius could work with the Jailer and gain access to the Maw's powers that way.
This is maybe a bit of a stretch, but it would be kind of fun. But really it's probably too convoluted a story to pull off in an mmo.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

There is one twist that might make the jailing of the Jailer by the others an actual mistake. If those dreadlords work for Denathrius and not Zovaal, they may have convinced the other Eternals that they were trying to upset the cosmic balance for Zovaal instead of Denathrius, which would mean Denathrius framed Zovaal (and of course imprisoned him together with the rest of the Eternals). Maybe he later even went to Zovaal and told him what a huuuuge mistake it had been and that he was sorry, sent his dreadlords to 'help' him get revenge, so Denathrius could work with the Jailer and gain access to the Maw's powers that way.
This is maybe a bit of a stretch, but it would be kind of fun. But really it's probably too convoluted a story to pull off in an mmo.

Im going to guess Zovaal did something real bad to make the others turn against him. I don't think Denathrius was originally against him but recently he is with him. My guess anyways, still very interesting to see.