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  1. #1

    Would you like to see this implemented in TBC?

    I absolutely love this expansion. However, it has some flaws that could be easily adressed.

    1) Double talent spec. Being this implemented is super good for the PVP scene. It'll help keeping it alive, so people can do PVE and BG/arenas without having to pay a chunk of money for it. Im the kind of person that likes to log in and do a couple bgs and then go for a few heroic dungeons for example.

    2) Blood Seal for Alliance Paladins. This one isn't as important as the other for me, but I think it's very good to keep factions balanced, and not forcing all ret players to go horde.

    3) Remove spell-batching. Unnecessary +400ms perma lag that makes the game unplayable

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Nak88's Avatar
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    Agreed. Sign me up.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Dalheim's Avatar
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    Did it exist in TBC? No? Then it won't be added there.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by arucado3 View Post
    I absolutely love this expansion. However, it has some flaws that could be easily adressed.

    1) Double talent spec. Being this implemented is super good for the PVP scene. It'll help keeping it alive, so people can do PVE and BG/arenas without having to pay a chunk of money for it. Im the kind of person that likes to log in and do a couple bgs and then go for a few heroic dungeons for example.

    2) Blood Seal for Alliance Paladins. This one isn't as important as the other for me, but I think it's very good to keep factions balanced, and not forcing all ret players to go horde.

    3) Remove spell-batching. Unnecessary +400ms perma lag that makes the game unplayable
    #nochanges would like a very stern conversation with you

  6. #6
    I really hope that blizzard in an TBC classic goes away from the "no changes" crowd; especially since we saw that changes to classic would have been very necessary. I'm not sure if i really would like the Seal of Blood-Change of above; i think that blizzard should simply buff a bit Seal of Vengeance by increasing the spellpower-coefficient by a huge amount. The non-scaling of it broke the game.

    All in all i think that TBC should take an overhaul in balancing: by making dot's scale with haste and letting them crit and giving spell effects a 200% crit baseline. This, along with a little bit better coefficient would make Seal of Vengeance so much better than it was in TBC compared to Seal of Blood.

  7. #7
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by arucado3 View Post
    I absolutely love this expansion. However, it has some flaws that could be easily adressed.

    1) Double talent spec. Being this implemented is super good for the PVP scene. It'll help keeping it alive, so people can do PVE and BG/arenas without having to pay a chunk of money for it. Im the kind of person that likes to log in and do a couple bgs and then go for a few heroic dungeons for example.

    2) Blood Seal for Alliance Paladins. This one isn't as important as the other for me, but I think it's very good to keep factions balanced, and not forcing all ret players to go horde.

    3) Remove spell-batching. Unnecessary +400ms perma lag that makes the game unplayable

    I'm ok with 1 seeing that it helps people having a spec for raiding/pvp and another for farming , or vice versa.

    Don't like 2 as it's a direct change to the core of the game; game should NOT be balanced, it's the attempt at balancing the game taht has "casualized" WoW and triviliazied many RPG elements in the current iteration. Let the game be unbalanced and fun; plus lore wise, Blood Seal doesn't make any sense for Alliance.

    Is 3 even a disagreement? Who the fuck actual wants artificial lag? Makes the game so stupid right now, hopefully it's out of the game by TBC
    You don't understand. Having an unpayed full time job that no one appreciates is the magic of classic.

    It's about the journey. The journey into depression. The journey of running a daycare full of middle-aged alcoholics ignoring their SOs and avoiding social engagements to fulfill something they wanted 15 years ago before everyone realized it's not hard at all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    #nochanges would like a very stern conversation with you
    #Nochanges should rot in classic-hell as it deserves: right now the voices about #nochanges gone very silent, and i know diehard #nochanges-fans that were converted in Classic and are now very VERY silent about it. Even they now want changes and i'm happy about it. Ret-Paladins for example were always a joke, but i know many non-paladins that would had nothing against buffing them. Giving them Crusader Strike for example. All in all i think that TBC deserve not to get the #nochanges-treatment of classic. It needs more changes than it is, and i don't think that this would actually be a bad thing.

    And totally forgot about the other points of above: Dual Spec for example would be a good compromiss. (But only in rested zones!) and yes, the spell batching was needed for the #nochanges-crowd; but as said before: these were very silent, and i don't know any #nochanger that would still want this crap. But if this disappears, then a balancing is necessary, and yes, i really hope they balance the classes better than they were in TBC (with the spirit of tbc in mind for example; Shadow priest should stay as mana batterys for example, but that does not mean they could do a bit of better damage. And yes, i mean make them crit for 200% and give dots crit and haste-scaling of retail.
    Last edited by Velerios; 2020-09-24 at 05:51 PM.

  9. #9
    IMHO content tuning is far more important and changed quite a bit over the course of the expansion. Class balance as it was in 2.4.3 is fine but I don't want to see the nerfed versions of dungeons, raids and attunement requirements at launch.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans
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    Classic could have been much better with a few touch ups, but the #nochanges crowd is who these rereleases are being catered to so I don't see it happening.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Oratory View Post
    IMHO content tuning is far more important and changed quite a bit over the course of the expansion. Class balance as it was in 2.4.3 is fine but I don't want to see the nerfed versions of dungeons, raids and attunement requirements at launch.
    Balance was better in 2.4.3 than in every previous state of TBC but it could be far better, especially for the dot-classes. But for the rest yes you are right: these requirement should stay, and blizzard please balance this time the dungeons not as they were in 2.4.3 but on a much more difficult state as they were around 2.0

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by arucado3 View Post
    3) Remove spell-batching. Unnecessary +400ms perma lag that makes the game unplayable
    So WoW used to be unplayable until WoD was released?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    Classic could have been much better with a few touch ups, but the #nochanges crowd is who these rereleases are being catered to so I don't see it happening.
    Because they game weren't out yet, and they had all rose-tinted glasses about how classic should be and how much better it was before: pro-tip: it wasn't. And i don't mean it content-wise, i simply mean it how it should be. For example: it would have not been the end of the world if ret would be a bit better balanced in pve. Or if Frost mages had a 100% more complicated rotation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    So WoW used to be unplayable until WoD was released?
    No, it means that this was necessary back then when input-lag, ping and internet-connections were as bad as they were back then. This is no longer the case (at least in most cases). Meaning adding unnecessary hassle that back then was not an issue because the conection was so bad; because now you are more affected by it than back then. And adding this "experience" back just for reasons is stupid.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordheim View Post
    Did it exist in TBC? No? Then it won't be added there.
    Get out of here with that no changes crap. That nonsense can stick to vanilla. It's a simple fact that some changes will be necessary for TBC to not be negatively received.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amsden View Post
    Classic could have been much better with a few touch ups, but the #nochanges crowd is who these rereleases are being catered to so I don't see it happening.
    No, the no changes crowd were catered to by vanilla. Tbc doesn't have to be that way, so make your voice heard.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    No, it means that this was necessary back then when input-lag, ping and internet-connections were as bad as they were back then. This is no longer the case (at least in most cases). Meaning adding unnecessary hassle that back then was not an issue because the conection was so bad; because now you are more affected by it than back then. And adding this "experience" back just for reasons is stupid.
    Some specializations mechanics are reliant upon batching (such as mage shatter combo and elemental shaman) and I shouldn't have to mention it being crucial for PvP. Mechanics such as casting SW: Death to break incoming CC, pre-casting mass dispel to remove ice block/bubble instantly, gouging/blinding blinks, sapping shadowsteps etc. all function only due to spell batching.

    Of course, if they added something to make these mechanics function while otherwise getting rid of batching I wouldn't care.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    So WoW used to be unplayable until WoD was released?
    No. Don't be obtuse. People's point is there's no need for it. It's a legacy DETRIMENT to the game that serves no purpose. Why recreate a bad thing just because it was there in 2007? That's just dumb.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    No, the no changes crowd were catered to by vanilla. Tbc doesn't have to be that way, so make your voice heard.
    This. I doubt that the Classic TBC-Crowd is actually the same as the classic vanilla crowd. Diehard classic fans would not go to TBC and vice versa. I think that changes in TBC are necessary and would make the game so much better.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    Some specializations mechanics are reliant upon batching (such as mage shatter combo and elemental shaman) and I shouldn't have to mention it being crucial for PvP. Mechanics such as casting SW: Death to break incoming CC, pre-casting mass dispel to remove ice block/bubble instantly, gouging/blinding blinks, sapping shadowsteps etc. all function only due to spell batching.

    Of course, if they added something to make these mechanics function while otherwise getting rid of batching I wouldn't care.
    This is all complete rubbish. There is no batching today and things like that function perfectly fine, because those abilities were and are designed to function that way.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludvig View Post
    Some specializations mechanics are reliant upon batching (such as mage shatter combo and elemental shaman) and I shouldn't have to mention it being crucial for PvP. Mechanics such as casting SW: Death to break incoming CC, pre-casting mass dispel to remove ice block/bubble instantly, gouging/blinding blinks, sapping shadowsteps etc. all function only due to spell batching.

    Of course, if they added something to make these mechanics function while otherwise getting rid of batching I wouldn't care.
    This is actually quite easy: SW: Death for example could simply have the incoming damage ~1 second later, and even the above mentioned classes could be easily changed without needing spell batching for it.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    This. I doubt that the Classic TBC-Crowd is actually the same as the classic vanilla crowd. Diehard classic fans would not go to TBC and vice versa. I think that changes in TBC are necessary and would make the game so much better.
    Yeah I'm in agreement, which is why these people who say "it didn't change for vanilla so why should it change for TBC" are pissing me off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    This is actually quite easy: SW: Death for example could simply have the incoming damage ~1 second later, and even the above mentioned classes could be easily changed without needing spell batching for it.
    Yup, batching is simply not necessary. He's just making phantom arguments for the sake of standing his ground by this point.

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