Meat is murder

[Yadryonych]

We dont though. Otherwise vegetarians and vegans would be dying

They are dying, that's why they need tons of supplements to prevent dying. Supplements extracted from animals btw

[kamuimac]

If you're pretty healthy B12 is the only supplement youd actually need and it's harvested from bacteria.

You're just making things up at this point.

he is not wrong htough .

check forums for vegetarians and you will realise how many supplement pills they are popping daily .

the paradox of "its healthy lifestyle" when they take 4-5 pills each day due to vitamin deficits.

[PC2]

No our digestive systems are designed to digest anything we get our grubby hands on.

Yes that's why it's best to think in terms of micronutrients and amino acids. Meat may be a good source for those 2 things but our stomachs don't care that much about whether they came from plants or animals.

[kamuimac]

Eating Protein does not make you "strong"

Eating vegetables does not make you "weak"

If you want to be "strong"...you need both

oh this i agree definetly you need both to function properly .

and technically you need 1,5-2g of protein per each kg of bodyweight daily in order to grow stronger so if if deprive body of it you are weaker then you could have been

and best source of fresh proteins is meat. not artificial supplements

and the diet you described is very good - cut as much carbs from grains as possible and eat combinations of meat/veggies/fruits.

i for example love to combine things like big juicy steak with a lot of broccoli , or big chicken breast with green beans for dinner no potatos and no rice there its very good for summer months when you dont feel as much hunger when its hot.

[Dhrizzle]

Where is there to go?

I dunno, wherever it is you chose to go so as not to live in confinement. Actually now I read back it seems the choice you made was to do with your diet, not to live free in the wild. Nevermind.

We dont though. Otherwise vegetarians and vegans would be dying

Do you know where b12 comes from?

Bacteria.

[Adamas102]

he is not wrong htough .

check forums for vegetarians and you will realise how many supplement pills they are popping daily .

the paradox of "its healthy lifestyle" when they take 4-5 pills each day due to vitamin deficits.

A looooot of people who eat meat don't have well balanced diets. I wouldn't really call it an unhealthy lifestyle to recognize where your nutrient deficiencies are and supplement them. Unless you think there's something wrong with taking vitamins in general...

Throughout most of human existence people didn't really get to choose what they ate. You had what was available in the vicinity of where you lived. The nice thing about first world living is that we can now choose a variety of different ways to meet our nutritional needs. Taking supplements is part of that.

[Bodakane]

That's wrong though because veganism is based on "animals" and not on the central nervous system.

Also, it's not scientifically verified that animals can feel pain and suffering because a behavioral output is not proof of an internal first-person experience.

No it’s not wrong. You just don’t understand. But interesting that you think you understand what vegan means more than a vegan does.

Also it 100% has been verified they can feel pain. That is just straight up ignorance or lying on your part.

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he is not wrong htough .

check forums for vegetarians and you will realise how many supplement pills they are popping daily .

the paradox of "its healthy lifestyle" when they take 4-5 pills each day due to vitamin deficits.

Yeah no. People of all diets take supplements your making an intellectually dishonest argument and your basing it on nothing but misinformation. B12 is the only supplement you need as a vegan but very often the livestock you guys eat also need B12 supplement as well.

[kamuimac]

No it’s not wrong. You just don’t understand. But interesting that you think you understand what vegan means more than a vegan does.

Also it 100% has been verified they can feel pain. That is just straight up ignorance or lying on your part.

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Yeah no. People of all diets take supplements your making an intellectually dishonest argument and your basing it on nothing but misinformation. B12 is the only supplement you need as a vegan but very often the livestock you guys eat also need B12 supplement as well.

a lot of people take supplements because they are morons. here i said it opnely - feel free to hate me

in most cases its completly unnesesary and should be fixed by eating healthy .

unless you are spending obscene amount of time weekly doing sports (like 10 + hours ) you dont need any supplementation if you eat healthy .

to many people belive in pills which is magical solution for everything - especially when most of those pills dont work only are pure placebo.

i can give you my own example - of my current workout rutine.

in the morning monday - friday (5 times a week) i work out 40-50 minutes in gym . on tuesday / thursday and saturday evening i swim for 90+ minutes.

the only supplement i take is protein shake post workout. and just as a safety precaution due to rather big weights/intensive swimming i work out with to protect my muscles .

i feel better then ever and have perfect medical resoults (i do body checkout / blood tests every 6 months) dont have any witamin deficits.

supplements are way overrated.

[Yadryonych]

Throughout most of human existence people didn't really get to choose what they ate. You had what was available in the vicinity of where you lived. The nice thing about first world living is that we can now choose a variety of different ways to meet our nutritional needs. Taking supplements is part of that.

That's good and all but those people who found self-indulgence in veganism should stop ranting and pushing their beliefs onto general populace. If i'd a see a carnivore dietist telling people how they should only eat meat i will not hesitate to call him a moron, and i would do the same to a ranting vegan anytime as well

[Themius]

If you're pretty healthy B12 is the only supplement youd actually need and it's harvested from bacteria.

You're just making things up at this point.

it's not just b12 there are others... for instance protein can be difficult because while plants do have protein it is not in any way complete since 1. it isn't complete... 2. harder to break down for the body compared to animal protein.

The thing about saying "people who eat meat often don't have balanced diets" is misplaced. It is misplaced because vegans are hardcore dieting and as part of that are purposefully deficient. People who are hardcore dieters [I]and omnivores/I] though... are a different story.

[Bodakane]

a lot of people take supplements because they are morons. here i said it opnely - feel free to hate me

in most cases its completly unnesesary and should be fixed by eating healthy .

unless you are spending obscene amount of time weekly doing sports (like 10 + hours ) you dont need any supplementation if you eat healthy .

to many people belive in pills which is magical solution for everything - especially when most of those pills dont work only are pure placebo.

i can give you my own example - of my current workout rutine.

in the morning monday - friday (5 times a week) i work out 40-50 minutes in gym . on tuesday / thursday and saturday evening i swim for 90+ minutes.

the only supplement i take is protein shake post workout. and just as a safety precaution due to rather big weights/intensive swimming i work out with to protect my muscles .

i feel better then ever and have perfect medical resoults (i do body checkout / blood tests every 6 months) dont have any witamin deficits.

supplements are way overrated.

I agree supplements are overrated but virtually no one is eating perfectly curated meals that give them everything they need.

There are numerous studies showing all the health issues with meat consumption that far far far outweigh having to take a single B12 pill every other day or so.

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it's not just b12 there are others... for instance protein can be difficult because while plants do have protein it is not in any way complete since 1. it isn't complete... 2. harder to break down for the body compared to animal protein.

The thing about saying "people who eat meat often don't have balanced diets" is misplaced. It is misplaced because vegans are hardcore dieting and as part of that are purposefully deficient. People who are hardcore dieters [I]and omnivores/I] though... are a different story.

It’s important to understand that a vegan diet is not a raw vegan diet. I eat virtually all the same things I used just the vegan versions. For example Beyond and Impossible burgers actually have more protein than beef burgers.

You should google vegan athletes. You’d be surprised.

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That's good and all but those people who found self-indulgence in veganism should stop ranting and pushing their beliefs onto general populace. If i'd a see a carnivore dietist telling people how they should only eat meat i will not hesitate to call him a moron, and i would do the same to a ranting vegan anytime as well

It’s not self indulgence, the opposite actually. You don’t go vegan because you dislike the flavor of meat and dairy.

It’s not about a diet, it’s about wanting to stop a truly horrific industry (factory farming).

[Dhrizzle]

I can't believe people are still pulling out the "bUt WhErE dO yOu GeT pRoTeIn?" non-argument.

[Monster Hunter]

Eating anything short of rocks is causing the death of something. Moralizing that it's okay to kill plants for food because they "don't feel pain" is no different than moralizing that its okay to kill animals because they're not sentient (or whatever), it's just another step along.

Accepting that you must kill something in order to survive is better than moralizing about what is or isn't acceptable to kill.

There is some evidence now that plants have there own distress and response mechanisms

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sci...-feel-pain.htm

There responses can be a range of things from releasing foul tasting chemicals when a cat pillar chews on them to making a smell when cut to attract helpful insects.

To me there is just no moral justification for eating one type of life over another just because its seen as "lesser"

But as we cannot our selves photosynthesise eating some form of life is nessesary.

All you can really do is make sure the veg you get is from sustainable sources from places where the habitat destruction is kept to a minimum so no soy from South americas slash and burn farms. And make sure your meat comes from free range, humane farms and was humanly slaughtered, so no kosher, no halal, no battery farms.

You can never be 100% but if you try to prefer those over the others and enough people do the market pressure might make things better.

[markos82]

Most primates have that level of self awareness. Is it hard for people to conceptualize the idea that intelligence didnt spring forth the moment the first human baby was born?

Ants have social structure as well they are capable of building things humans can oy dream of ( relative to their size), they carry dead ants, they take dump into areas they don't live in... But I bet you killed at least 1000 ants so far but that number is probably much higher.

[Themius]

It’s important to understand that a vegan diet is not a raw vegan diet. I eat virtually all the same things I used just the vegan versions. For example Beyond and Impossible burgers actually have more protein than beef burgers.

You should google vegan athletes. You’d be surprised.
.

Those burgers have issues. Like being expensive... while they do have multiple different plant proteins that aim to act as a complete protein, them being a ready-made product that is highly processed will generally mean it will be more expensive than buying a pack of ground beef. Not to mention... more people have sensitivities to extremely high fibre diets. Not to mention the issue that high carb diets have for a lot of people.

[Bodakane]

There is some evidence now that plants have there own distress and response mechanisms

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sci...-feel-pain.htm

There responses can be a range of things from releasing foul tasting chemicals when a cat pillar chews on them to making a smell when cut to attract helpful insects.

To me there is just no moral justification for eating one type of life over another just because its seen as "lesser"

But as we cannot our selves photosynthesise eating some form of life is nessesary.

All you can really do is make sure the veg you get is from sustainable sources from places where the habitat destruction is kept to a minimum so no soy from South americas slash and burn farms. And make sure your meat comes from free range, humane farms and was humanly slaughtered, so no kosher, no halal, no battery farms.

You can never be 100% but if you try to prefer those over the others and enough people do the market pressure might make things better.

Distress mechanism is a wholly different thing than a central nervous system feeling actual pain.

[Themius]

Protein is not difficult and there are plenty of plant sources of complete proteins. It's a matter of remembering 10 things and making sure you eat enough of them.

Vegans arent necessarily hardcore dieting and you cant have a garbage diet and be vegan.

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What? Do you think I sit around squishing ants? I dont intentionally kill them either?

Did you just say vegans aren't hardcore dieters? They are far more likely to be hardcore dieters, that's the only reason they're generally healthier. Not because the "diet" itself is healthier but simply because they are hardcore dieters and aware.

[Themius]

I can't believe people are still pulling out the "bUt WhErE dO yOu GeT pRoTeIn?" non-argument.

Because it is an issue that still exists and requires a very highly curated set of foods... in order to try to get a complete protein composition. it is an issue... and this goes further to why most vegans are hard core dieters

[markos82]

No our digestive systems are designed to digest anything we get our grubby hands on.

Bullshit, try to eat and chew on raw rice, corn, wheat... You will die from malnutrition long before you destroy your teeth which will take less than a year...

[Themius]

You can literally buy bags of dehydrated plant protein incredibly cheap.

That's not a meal... and that requires me to make some highly processed food... which most people do not have all that much time for.

Regardless I can't eat a diet like that, I have too many sensitivities.

Bullshit, try to eat and chew on raw rice, corn, wheat... You will die from malnutrition long before you destroy your teeth which will take less than a year...

The rice we have today is likely more available for human consumption than it was in the past.

Fruits i don't get... they're just high sugar foods with limited nutrition, and to get any decent amount you'd have to eat far too much sugar.

And its not like you can eat raw meat either?

I take it you have never had sushi or tartar. Cooking meat definitely makes it more bioavailable, but you can eat raw meats. What about Salami? Prosciutto?