Pelagos and trans representation in Shadowlands

[Geckoo]

No one ever claims that including a heterosexual man in a game is forced, for some reason. While this is clearly not the only type of a human being that exists in the real world.

Mostly because most of the times the sexuality of a character in a videogame is simply irrelevant. I do not assume that every character that is not clearly stated as LGTB is heterosexual, i simply don't care or think about their sexuality at all, their purpose as characters is to tell a story and their sexuality not always plays a role (in fact, it doesn't most of the time).

That's why it can feel forced sometimes, because they tell bad stories with those characters just to point out that the character is gay or even worse, they simply announce that a character whose sexuality has never mattered is gay, with no background or story to support it, just to have that diverse quota that it's actually good for business. And yes, the same can happen with heterosexual characters when their sexuality has never had any kind of presence in the game and it doesn't really matter for the purpose of said character, i always thought that about Thrall's marriage for example.

And just to be clear, Pelagos is not this case at all, i believe that's a good story told in a good way.

[Byleth]

They just add them to please other people.\

Yeah, other people who exist, are also normal, and are also deserving of representation.

[VinceVega]

I don't think the problem is representation. I believe the problem is promoting one's sexual orientation to character trait.

Characters that have good/likeable personalities are widely accepted and respected, regardless if they are hetero/homo/etc. Because they bring more to the table than that. The problem arises when there is a character whose only personality is dictated by their sexual preferences and we are expected to like him/her solely because of that. That's not how it works at all, and when pushed without a particular creative direction, it gets annoying.

You know that is exactly hoe people react to EVERY representation no matter how good the character is. Point the Pelagos drama when it first came up. ALso your sexuality IS a character trait
People flipped there shit. The wowhead article has more comments than most other articles. Well except the Flynn/Shaw articel. Not even major announemtns get so much comments.
Also most people say the character only charcter trait is his sexuality the moment he/she MENTIONS the sexuality or references their partner.
LGBT characters always need some incredible deep and moving backstory which cannot UNDER ANY cirsumstances is allowed to have anything to do with their sexuality to allow them to exist in video games. No other character is in need for a reason to exist. There are so many useless characters in games. But no one bitches about them.

[Lord Pebbleton]

You know that is exactly hoe people react to EVERY representation no matter how good the character is. Point the Pelagos drama when it first came up. ALso your sexuality IS a character trait
People flipped there shit. The wowhead article has more comments than most other articles. Well except the Flynn/Shaw articel. Not even major announemtns get so much comments.
Also most people say the character only charcter trait is his sexuality the moment he/she MENTIONS the sexuality or references their partner.
LGBT characters always need some incredible deep and moving backstory which cannot UNDER ANY cirsumstances is allowed to have anything to do with their sexuality to allow them to exist in video games. No other character is in need for a reason to exist. There are so many useless characters in games. But no one bitches about them.

I wasn't even aware that people had already debated the topic to death. I can only speak for myself, and what I believe is, that Pelagos is fine due to the reasons I mentioned previously, and that also Flynn/Shaw are fine, because they have had time to establish themselves as characters with stories and personalities that just so happened to meet and like each other, as it happens in real life too.

Also not every hetero interaction is automatically fine. The one presented in the latest Star Wars is the cringiest shit I have ever seen.

[Monster Hunter]

This thread is exactly why I keep my sexuality to my self.

Fucking needless aggro.

[Chonar]

I'll leave my thoughts for until after I've played the storyline myself, rather than through secondhand accounts and forum posts.

If it's hammered down without any relation and relevance to the story, but still put in the spotlight because "look at us! look at this!", it'll feel forced.
If it's simply a personal lore bit, it'll feel good, because more lore is fun and builds the world, and diversity is important.

[Adamas102]

Idk .. why would it need representation in a game? Blizz would be wise to not dive into these discussions. With that said rl issues shouldnt be represented in the first place imo.

The game setting, cultures, characters, and stories all draw immensely from the real world. If there were nothing that we as the audience could identify with then it really wouldn't make for a good RPG at all. Showing that these sorts of things are a part of the world of Warcraft helps with that immersion for some people. And let's be honest here, the only people who have an issue with this are the cowards who think there's something wrong with LGBT folks.

If WoW was just a game like Tetris then sure, it wouldn't really matter. But a game that wants to craft an immersive world NEEDS to draw inspiration from our own, and in this day and age that should include representation of more than just white, heterosexual people.

[Xilurm]

Lastly the changes to the Barber are much appreciated, I'm sure everyone likes the option to change their body type without paying a fee.

Not really, I feel like it puts gender as something that's not important while it is. Also feels like the identity of my character won't matter much if I can just change it willy nilly. It's nice that it's free, but it should have had some kind of cd, like a few days maybe.

At the same time it would be nice to see a greater variety of body types in the game, especially so non binary people could choose to have less overtly gendered avatars. I appreciate WoW is a pretty old game now so this might be a bit much to ask.

Anyway what do you all think?

I disagree, regardless of gender, if someone is gonna go fighting monsters and demons and being in wars for years on end they are going to have a built and fit body.

[arandomuser]

pelagos really isnt trans
its jsut he was a female in life, and he died
and in his afterlife he chose the male form
totally different

[Xilurm]

pelagos really isnt trans
its jsut he was a female in life, and he died
and in his afterlife he chose the male form
totally different

This. Like if there's afterlife irl and I can choose to be a different gender, that doesn't make me trans. I'll just be female. There's a difference between being male, transitioning into a female (hence being called transgender) and switching entire bodies alltogether.

I'm sure in the far future when we can probably transfer our consciousness into a cyborg body of sorts and it looks like the opposite gender then you'd just want to be called that gender? Like, why wouldn't you? If people are suffering because they are male and want to be female, and switched bodies into a female one, wouldn't they want to be called female? That would probably make them happy.

Unless of course you hate the idea of gender and society in general. Sorry but then that becomes a "you" problem.

[vertigo12]

pelagos really isnt trans
its jsut he was a female in life, and he died
and in his afterlife he chose the male form
totally different

Do they choose for themselves what or who they become in the afterlife or the arbiter also decides if you stay as you are once you enter Shadowlands?

To me Shadowlands is all about fate, faith and afterlife?
It seems that the presence of the arbiter signals a forced order or structure imposed by a higher power that the Jailer might try to oppose.

[Xilurm]

Pelagos also seems to also be the only kyrian soulbind who isn't completely useless in terms of DPS...
oh well looks like my choice is made, but i'll refer to the character as a her in return. Seems only fair.

But he's a man. Past life doesn't matter.

[Kumorii]

I thought it was a bad idea the day I read that post and I’ve wondered if anyone else caught that. Grouping the afterlife and transitioning is the wrong way to represent us. There’s a lot of potential risk factors which could lead somebody to self harm.

Saying something is problematic doesn't say much... why is it problematic?

[Ragnarohk]

Nothing problematic. We, as the LGBT community, tend to find something problematic in everything we get.

This. At some point I was happy I belonged to the Alphabet Gang but they turned into special intolerant snowflakes that misrepresent a big portion of their so called community.

On topic. Wasn't Chromie technically the first "trans" Character that was then retconed?

[Xilurm]

This. At some point I was happy I belonged to the Alphabet Gang but they turned into special intolerant snowflakes that misrepresent a big portion of their so called community.

On topic. Wasn't Chromie technically the first "trans" Character that was then retconed?

Can't dragons turn into whatever they want?

[TriHard]

The outrage was rightfull because they had to announce it big time of course (virtue signaling).
Nobody except turds would have had a problem if it was simply in the game like that.

The representation part comes by just being naturally there, not because of "hey look how progressive we are guys, please buy our product".

Yes, I agree about it just naturally being there. The reason why it was "announced big time" though is cuz ppl started spasming out about it, this is why we can't have nice things.

[VinceVega]

This. At some point I was happy I belonged to the Alphabet Gang but they turned into special intolerant snowflakes that misrepresent a big portion of their so called community.

On topic. Wasn't Chromie technically the first "trans" Character that was then retconed?

Well you can go to far to the otherside to. Just saying.
I still stand with everyone in the LGBT communtiy.

No idea about chromie... if so it was only a short sentence in some book maybe. never heard of it...

[paxen]

I like Pelagos' concept. Pretty cool way to broaden the concepts of WoW. The only thing it opens up is that there's pretty powerful magic in WoW, even though most people do not have access. Maybe they'll show an archmage stridently objecting to being deadnamed once?

(As for Soldier 76 being "forced", please. His entire concept is grizzled veteran soldier who gave up his chance at having family and normal relations for the Cause. Showing the picture of his ex who happened to be a guy is perfect for that. Also, I cannot for the life of me imagine how anybody can look at the tone of the Overwatch universe and think that Michael Chu hadn't had that planned from the beginning.)

[CalamityHeart]

Wasn't Chromie technically the first "trans" Character that was then retconed?

Was she? My understanding was that Chromie was always female, she just had the male bronze dragon suffix for some reason. No retcon, just an odd quirk of the character that was curious, but left alone. I don't think Chromie was ever actually considered trans or anything similar.

[Super Kami Dende]

Tbf Pelagos isn't actually trans. Since Kyrians are completely different beings to what the soul was on Azeroth.

It's moreso reincarnation.