Turalyon, the next Garrosh? [SPOILERS]

[TheRevenantHero]

naaru isnt an aliance thing,its neutral,and illidan isnt aliance either,i mean he would support tyrande and malfurion if it came to it,but even so...hes not a bad buy,neither are naaru,they are just a bit overzealous

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huh?what aliance has been a villain that people justified?

People constantly justify the terrible things the Alliance has done. It's always "they acted alone" or "The Horde started it."

[Arrashi]

so basicaly every normal person is crazy?facepalm

No? Its the case of every potato being vegetable and not every vegetable being potato. Tho if you need to reassure yourself that you aren't crazy you are probably losing it.

[Graden]

Let Anduin rot in the Maw for the rest of eternity, I don't give the slightest shit for him.

Turalyon all the way. I want him to be aggressive, I'd love this. But if they dare to turn him into a villain I'm done. Yeah I know, his reintroduction sucked ass. But he is way too important as a character to me, because of his past history and achievements. I don't have to mention his WC2 background, I'm sure everyone in here knows about it.

[deenman]

People constantly justify the terrible things the Alliance has done. It's always "they acted alone" or "The Horde started it."

examples pls

[ArmatisUlv]

Expanding on the fact that the light resorts to creating crazed zealots and is potentially an evil hiding underneath a hero's veil could be a really interesting concept if done right. That's a big if though

Incoming revamp of the Scarlet Crusade

[Steelangel]

The darkness Is that he trusts Lothraxion implicitly, and he was a dreadlord all along.

[guisadop]

Hopefully they give us a way to (meaningfully) fight for them, though. I don't want to fight against the Light.

[Satelliteyears0o]

So apparently he's the new leader of the Alliance. In 8.3 we got this goodie from the Rumor Tumor:

The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness.

Could Turalyon be the next Garrosh by forcing the Light on everyone?

He will be the next AU Yrel: trying to lightforge everyone.

[Cyanu]

do we really need every 2nd or 3rd expansion to be horde vs alliance with a 'Garrosh' that then escapes into the next expansion leaving behind another 'Garrosh'? we can do better than that...

by not merging the factions as part of the playerbase requested they're threading on thin ice in terms of the faction war, it's very likely that they'll try to spice things up with Alliance initiating for a change but it's going to be Tyrande no Turalyon, they've already shown the seeds of Tyrande preparing some terrible vengeance over the Horde

where Turalyon will make a difference is that unlike Anduin he's a man of action and not of diplomacy and he won't go as far to leash Tyrande and Genn especially if the Horde fights back

there's also the chance that:

1)something involving Alleria and their son will happen and he'll go mad

2)Anduin will return corrupted by death/void whatever and Turalyon will step aside

3)unlike Anduin he will answer Horde's aggression in kind

the possibility of him going 'lightstruck' and starting to kill everything not glowing with the holy light is slim to none, no matter how much some edgelords want it there's no way the tables turn and void or death aligned characters and up being the heroes, void, death and fel are messed up forces their only good use is to fight eachother/themselves, even if part of the light is fanatical at least their cheering for the less wrong side[

[TheRevenantHero]

examples pls

Camp Taurajo. Alliance ships attacking goblin ships that were fleeing Kezan for absolutely no reason. The Alliance still partaking in slavery of orcs. Genn Greymane committing a war crime by disobeying orders, stealing an Alliance airship, attacking the Horde during a period of ceasefire, and getting numerous Alliance soldiers killed because he was chasing a petty vendetta. Murdering the King of the Zandalari despite being given orders to take him in alive. Torturing orc prisoners in the Southern Barrens. The Purge of Dalaran. Killing soldiers who had surrendered in the Jade Forest. Dwarves wiping out an entire Tauren tribe. The Void elves performing a form of necromancy on Zandalari troops. Using child slaves for labor in the Jade Forest.

Just to name a few.

[iscalio]

Using child slaves for labor in the Jade Forest.

I never saw this. Can you point me to the location/quest?

[elbleuet]

Camp Taurajo. Alliance ships attacking goblin ships that were fleeing Kezan for absolutely no reason. The Alliance still partaking in slavery of orcs. Genn Greymane committing a war crime by disobeying orders, stealing an Alliance airship, attacking the Horde during a period of ceasefire, and getting numerous Alliance soldiers killed because he was chasing a petty vendetta. Murdering the King of the Zandalari despite being given orders to take him in alive. Torturing orc prisoners in the Southern Barrens. The Purge of Dalaran. Killing soldiers who had surrendered in the Jade Forest. Dwarves wiping out an entire Tauren tribe. The Void elves performing a form of necromancy on Zandalari troops. Using child slaves for labor in the Jade Forest.

Just to name a few.

Yeah. So nothing at all.

The Horde murdered an entire race. Destroyed 3 nations. Plagued Lordaeron. Enslaved a Naaru.

[Zandalariprelate]

He will be the next AU Yrel: trying to lightforge everyone.

Correction, he's likely the Saurfang of the Alliance once Yrel takes command. AU Garrosh is likely her Nathanos

[Satelliteyears0o]

Correction, he's likely the Saurfang of the Alliance once Yrel takes command. AU Garrosh is likely her Nathanos

So you are comparing Yrel to Sylvanas then? When was Sylvanas trying to indoctrinate everyone into the light, and lets save us time by excluding bending logic that forsaken would be this cuz free will contradicts that, or undead controlled by helm of domination, ie, the jailers power to dominate souls and control mindlessly.

Yrel showed what a future would look like if the army of the light won, everyone would be brainwashed into the service of the light or eradicated. Turalyon shares this parallel but fate stepped in with illidan as well as alleria (whom he imprisoned on behalf of the army of the light instead of executing or forcing to accept the light like xe'ra wanted) to sway him albeit it looks like for the moment as Il'gynoth could very well have shared what will come if the light remains unchecked, as it is lights destiny to eventually fade out and become void and vice versa once void consumes enough it will revert back into light. Turalyon would now be in a place of power (like AU Yrel) to potentially use the light how the AOTL sees fit and bad things could happen. hes already got the Lightforged AND a powerful battleship with precision strike capabilities orbiting Azeroth.

Saurfang followed the ways of the old horde and became disenfranchised with what it had become under Sylvanas, questioning his loyalty and still adhering to that old code of honor going as far as attempting suicide at the gates of Lordaeron with an honorable death. Zappy boi reminds him what the modern horde is and he gets the ending he wanted while still maintaining his honor in service of the horde and not to himself.

Corrected.

[InfiniteCharger]

Doesn't portraying it as something that can only be used for "good" also cheapen its status as a cosmic force?

World of Warcraft already had a crusade driven by the Light. The Scarlet Crusade believed all non-humans were "lesser races" that carried the plague and, given the numbers, would happily have wiped them off the face of Azeroth. Yet the Light still responded to their call, because faith and willpower are all you need to wield it, and that's been the case since Vanilla.

That's just silly.

You literally had Scarlet Crusade from the get go which literally had exactly that. It's not beyond reason to assume this could happen on a grander scale too.

Even besides that, I am not even sure why you think light is that selfless, ever-benevolent power? Even in second war novels that came way before those 8 years you literally have example by Turalyon where light is bargained with for questionable cause. You literally had this spelled out to you in Tides of Darkness - Warcraft novel from 2007.

This is the quote from Wowpedia summarizing that: "Doomhammer's words - "I have conquered! And so shall all our foes die, until your world belongs to us!" - brought Turalyon to a revelation. For months he had been struggling with his faith and had been unable to wield the Light like Uther and the other paladins could. He did not understand how to reconcile the notion of the Light uniting all creatures while beings as cruel and monstrous as the orcs walked the world, but Orgrim's comment reminded him that the orcs were not of his world. Turalyon reasoned that the Light only united the creatures of Azeroth and that creatures who did not belong there - like the orcs - could be struck down with impunity. Now confident in his faith, Turalyon began to shine with a brilliant glow that forced onlookers to shield their eyes."

This shows how light power can be called upon on very shaky grounds that are not necessarily are righteous. Light zealotry and oppression is not some sort of new thing in Warcraft lore, it's just that we have been more often then not sided with light one way or another against other foe, so people got a bit relaxed there.

Like all major powers - Light has its own agenda and we don't even know what it is. Might be not unlike Void, trying to reshape the universe in its own image.

Depends how you define a cosmic force. The "light" of the Scarlet Crusade was simply an allegory. The actual "light" as a force as in "holy light" is simply a force. And of course that can be used for good or evil as the Crusade has done. The "light" itself wasn't evil. The shades of grey I am talking about are in reference to X'era and Illidan from Legion. And this is just a continuation of that kind of lore butchering. To start, X'era is a creature of Light created at the beginning of time. As such it should be intrinsically "good" and not filled with shades of anything grey. Not to mention not something that could be destroyed by Illidan. Then to go along with that, why has this "army of light" only just now come into the picture? Where was it all these aeons before and where are all the other races attached to it? Right now we only see Draenei. And most of all, why now is the light subject to "shades of grey" after all this time fighting evil? Just makes no sense. Similarly, Turalyon was all alone presumably for many years cut off from Azeroth fighting with the Light against forces of evil in much more dire circumstances and didn't turn into a tyrant of the light or a zealot. So why now back on Azeroth after defeating the legion does suddenly the character want to become a Zealot? Makes no sense.

[Varodoc]

If the Alliance needs a villain (because Blizzard just can't think of another way to move the plot forward), I hope it's Alleria and not Turalyon. Turalyon is a weakling, a fool who was completely clowned by an exhausted Illidan. Meanwhile Alleria has merged with the very essence of a darkened naaru, and as shown in the Visions of N'Zoth, possesses the power to corrupt an entire city. Alleria would make for a much more badass and compelling villain than Turalyon. So if the Alliance needs a villain at all costs, I hope Alleria somehow usurps Turalyon, or perhaps serves as the true power behind the throne manipulating everyone. I would expect nothing less from an ominous and cunning void elf.

[Eapoe]

I never saw this. Can you point me to the location/quest?

Do the starting area for Mists of Pandaria. After you secure the cave and start assaulting the Alliance outpost, one of the quests is freeing workers. There are children, as well as adult, Pandaren being used in the establishment.
I’m assuming that’s what they are referring to.

[Ielenia]

Camp Taurajo.

It wasn't an act of aggression and more like an act of self-defense. Yes, they were acting on false information, but it was information they believed to be true.

Alliance ships attacking goblin ships that were fleeing Kezan for absolutely no reason.

They were hunting for Thrall, and goblins were known to work with the Horde in more than one occasion.

The Alliance still partaking in slavery of orcs.

What? When and where?

Genn Greymane committing a war crime by disobeying orders, stealing an Alliance airship, attacking the Horde during a period of ceasefire, and getting numerous Alliance soldiers killed because he was chasing a petty vendetta.

You basically just conceded that Greymane was acting on his own accord.

Murdering the King of the Zandalari despite being given orders to take him in alive.

If he surrendered. Rastakhan did not surrender and opted to fight.

Torturing orc prisoners in the Southern Barrens.

What? When and where?

The Purge of Dalaran.

You mean the consequences for failing to obey the decree to leave the city?

Killing soldiers who had surrendered in the Jade Forest.

They technically haven't surrendered as they were trying to swim to the shore, but yes, they were gunned down, but judging by the reactions of the other Alliance NPCs, they did not agree with that decision.

Dwarves wiping out an entire Tauren tribe.

When did this happen?

The Void elves performing a form of necromancy on Zandalari troops.

Troops? When and where?

Using child slaves for labor in the Jade Forest.

You're confusing the Horde with the Alliance there.

[deenman]

Camp Taurajo. Alliance ships attacking goblin ships that were fleeing Kezan for absolutely no reason. The Alliance still partaking in slavery of orcs. Genn Greymane committing a war crime by disobeying orders, stealing an Alliance airship, attacking the Horde during a period of ceasefire, and getting numerous Alliance soldiers killed because he was chasing a petty vendetta. Murdering the King of the Zandalari despite being given orders to take him in alive. Torturing orc prisoners in the Southern Barrens. The Purge of Dalaran. Killing soldiers who had surrendered in the Jade Forest. Dwarves wiping out an entire Tauren tribe. The Void elves performing a form of necromancy on Zandalari troops. Using child slaves for labor in the Jade Forest.

Just to name a few.

The attack on camp taurajo was a mistake because of false info provided saying they were planing an attack on aliance

The kezan attack was no reason?lol it was to capture thrall,and one boat getting attacked to capture the leader of the horde potentialy ending the war isnt exactly a bad thing,hard to compare that to any acts the horde did,plus i dont think we know who oredered that,it matteres if its a random lord trying to score points vs when a leader does it

What orc slaves?where?i havent heard about this still going on,and in no way if it is,is it going on with anduins aproval

Genn war criminal...hahahahahaha...what?sure hes a little hotblooded because of sylvanas killing his son and he can make rash choices,and was quick to blame the horde in legion...BUT,he didnt act alone or disobey orders,anduin was tricked by dreadlords and told that the horde is planing an attack....anduin told greymane to go there and attack them,he didnt act alone,again...another attack based on false info...this is a trend here

The rastakan kill is weird,done purely by blizz to push his daugther in the front more,that one could have been handled better,but yeah...killing ONE faction leader to defeat an army they are at war with isnt comparable with the genosides horde has done

Purge of dalaran...surprise surprise...another act done base on false info...seriously how lazy is blizzard with this trope?and yeah,jaina was royaly pissed and wanted to find any excuse to attack horde...because??of what garrosh did! also...they had the chance for jaina to annihilate orgrimmar...but they ofc can never have the aliance comit an actual act of evil DUH!

anyways,i think my point was made,everytime the aliance does something that can be seen as objectivly evil,its ALWAYS based on some kind of mistake or bad info or as a direct result of something FAR WORSE the horde did to lead them there,and even then,its NEVER EVER on the scale that the horde leadership does it 100% willingly and with that exact intent

dont get me wrong,im not happy the aliance is treated like angels and horde like monsters,its booring

[StationaryHawk]

To start, X'era is a creature of Light created at the beginning of time. As such it should be intrinsically "good" and not filled with shades of anything grey. Not to mention not something that could be destroyed by Illidan.

You're missing the point of why Xe'ra was a problem. The naaru are benevolent by nature but, like the Pantheon, they're also single minded. Xe'ra (and Turalyon) believed her prophecy was the only path forward.

Then to go along with that, why has this "army of light" only just now come into the picture? Where was it all these aeons before and where are all the other races attached to it? Right now we only see Draenei.

This is irrelevant to the discussion, but we were told this almost immediately after learning of them. They were battling the Legion for thousands of years, just not on Azeroth. That we saw only draenei is likely a combination of the fact that the Genedar (from which the Xenedar split) was a draenei-manned ship, and modeling other races takes time and effort.

Similarly, Turalyon was all alone presumably for many years cut off from Azeroth fighting with the Light against forces of evil in much more dire circumstances and didn't turn into a tyrant of the light or a zealot. So why now back on Azeroth after defeating the legion does suddenly the character want to become a Zealot? Makes no sense.

He wasn't alone, but I agree. I don't think becoming a tyrant is in Turalyon's character.