Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

[TheFirstOnes]

CD's mobility (not a insue like for pvp but mobility is important to m+ but not a critical one) and damage out of wings..

Ret pve is mid to top in dps metters

Yeah, basically this. I do wish the CD's got lowered a bit, and I also wish we got Long Arm of the Law back (Tho, that's mostly in regards to PVP). Been trying out Torghast and all, it's real fun as a Ret.

[Tyze]

Everytime I play my Paladin I just wanna play a Warrior because of Charge and Heroic Leap.

But everytime I play a Warrior I miss the utility and tbh Ret's rotation is more smooth than any of the Warrior specs.


Just give me Divine Steed OFF GCD or Long arm of the law!

[ExiHext]

Everytime I play my Paladin I just wanna play a Warrior because of Charge and Heroic Leap.

But everytime I play a Warrior I miss the utility and tbh Ret's rotation is more smooth than any of the Warrior specs.


Just give me Divine Steed OFF GCD or Long arm of the law!

I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the problem of most Ret mains...warrior is tempting but just not tempting enough. Although in BfA Fury has a quite smooth rotation without any downtime at all. Not sure about SL Fury though.

[Tyze]

I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the problem of most Ret mains...warrior is tempting but just not tempting enough. Although in BfA Fury has a quite smooth rotation without any downtime at all. Not sure about SL Fury though.

Its ok, except wrist hurts after a while lol, I pref Arms.

[Swampmoose]

You probably think that is a piece of wisdom, but it's not. We are not talking about BfA or past expansions. We are talking about SL, where our utility was removed and there are no more scrolls. And, no it hasn't been fine all the time and cause some people can clear content with them does in no way prove that they are ok in comparison to others. Anyone can be carried. Try getting that rating with a Ret and with a Rogue and then come tell me the difference. No, you are not spewing wisdom, quite the opposite, you are forcefully wanting to ignore the problem cause you cba.

Also, it is funny how a couple of you now try to twist lack of utility into "ret is crap".

You know, seeing reactions like this, i hope blizzard does nothing. Cause i really want to see the pain and laugh at the people who are trying to minimize the problem. You do deserve to go through it, cause you have learned nothing.

Always nice to see someone immediately proving a point lol. You instantly start complaining about something being taken away. No, you didn't call it crap, but you sure do seem upset about it. Like clockwork, at the end of every expansion as beta updates are released and things are taken away, people start complaining, while others don't really care. Utility...if I had a nickel for every time someone has complained about changes to "utility" over the years...it's the same old same old every expansion.

Put your money where your mouth is and play a different class if you think Blizzard is doing such a poor job. If they see a massive decline in people playing Paladin's because what they took away was important to the function of the class, maybe they'll make the changes you want. But, in reality you won't (and neither will most others who are committed to the class) and in 2 years you'll still be playing the same class...proving Euroguy's point.

See you at the end of Shadowlands for the same talk.

[Swnem]

Always nice to see someone immediately proving a point lol. You instantly start complaining about something being taken away. No, you didn't call it crap, but you sure do seem upset about it. Like clockwork, at the end of every expansion as beta updates are released and things are taken away, people start complaining, while others don't really care. Utility...if I had a nickel for every time someone has complained about changes to "utility" over the years...it's the same old same old every expansion.

Put your money where your mouth is and play a different class if you think Blizzard is doing such a poor job. If they see a massive decline in people playing Paladin's because what they took away was important to the function of the class, maybe they'll make the changes you want. But, in reality you won't (and neither will most others who are committed to the class) and in 2 years you'll still be playing the same class...proving Euroguy's point.

See you at the end of Shadowlands for the same talk.

I am changing main. It's already happened.
Doesn't mean i stopped caring.

You are spewing total nonsense. No, no one was yelling lack of utility previous expansion. But, i am not surprised by the selective memory and generalization.
I also challenge the notion that things have been fine. There was good sense to the complains and there still is.

[fwc577]

Yeah, basically this. I do wish the CD's got lowered a bit, and I also wish we got Long Arm of the Law back (Tho, that's mostly in regards to PVP). Been trying out Torghast and all, it's real fun as a Ret.

I've, for a while, wanted some sort of mechanic similar to Demon Hunter Demonic baseline for Ret.

Eye Beam - 30 Sec Cooldown
Demonic - 8 Sec of Metamorphosis
Metamorphosis - 4 Min Cooldown, 30 Second Ability. +25% Haste +dmg to Chaos Strike and Blade Dance.

Wake of Ashes - 45 Sec Cooldown
New Baseline Ability - 7 Sec of Avenging Wrath
Avenging Wrath - 2 Min Cooldown, 20 Sec Ability. +20% Crit and Damage

Some damage might need to be slightly adjusted you just won't feel like a wet noodle outside of AW.

[FaxiDerp]

Just be happy they postponed the launch. Stuff like this might get fixed.

[ExiHext]

They won't fix any classes. Prepatch with class changes hits in less than two weeks. They will need the rest of the time to fix covenants (abilities, soulbinds), leveling and raid encounters. Only thing that is going to happen with classes is tuning and perhaps some talent changes here and there, but nothing that will fix underlying problems. We've been through this numerous times.

[ThiagoTorres]

Blizzard in shadowlands bited more than they can chew with borrowed system

They will take 90% of team working on fixing bugs and balancing ONLY conduits and covenants. Classes will be that trash they are now fixing some bugs here and there, like monks having skills that supposed to heal but dont heal at all lmao

I really am curious if they will do the same after shadowlands

[Gloriandus]

I've, for a while, wanted some sort of mechanic similar to Demon Hunter Demonic baseline for Ret.

They're trying to do that to a minor degree with Final Reckoning, but of course that requires you to take the talent (which will be the default for a while). I like your idea, but the "class identity" argument would probably be the showstopper.

An easy one is that they could bake the Vision of Perfection proc into the spec in some fashion. For example, "Each 3 HP spent builds 1 stack of Inquisition. Upon reaching X# stacks, Avenging Wrath is activated for X# seconds" or somesuch. Vision procs, while hit or miss, made the spec feel less awful imho.

[Demsi]

Seeing as Rouge got a complete rework of their venthyr ability, do you guys think the paladin class will get a new covenant ability? if so wich one do you want changed?

[Swnem]

Seeing as Rouge got a complete rework of their venthyr ability, do you guys think the paladin class will get a new covenant ability? if so wich one do you want changed?

I wish they redesigned blessing of seasons. It sounds awful. I'm so happy it's not the top choice anymore.

[roboscorcher]

I wish they redesigned blessing of seasons. It sounds awful. I'm so happy it's not the top choice anymore.

Yeah. NightFae ability could be something like a battle rez. Would help with ret bringing *valuable* utility to small groups.

I haven't played the beta, but I wish Divine Toll applied its aoe effect to your next single-target builder.

[Swnem]

Yeah. NightFae ability could be something like a battle rez. Would help with ret bringing *valuable* utility to small groups.

I haven't played the beta, but I wish Divine Toll applied its aoe effect to your next single-target builder.

Sounds good to me.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

I still miss Divine Storm being a wave that you push away. That added some more things to play around with..

[Thylight]

I still miss Divine Storm being a wave that you push away. That added some more things to play around with..

There is a legendary that does that - sends forward additional DS for x% amount of DMG.

[The Butt Witch]

Just go sword&board "ret" for PVP.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

There is a legendary that does that - sends forward additional DS for x% amount of DMG.

coming in Shadowlands or in the game now?

[Celvira]

Seeing as Rouge got a complete rework of their venthyr ability, do you guys think the paladin class will get a new covenant ability? if so wich one do you want changed?

Ashen Hallow. Its damage and healing may be solid, but having to wait 4 minutes to use it again doesn't sound very enjoyable. I'd much rather have Ashen Hallow be a 2 minute CD with a 15s duration (opposed to 4 minutes with a 30s duration).